metsuke

Command throws are untechable from neutral.

I can't seem to connect 5b3d JC j.b against anyone crouching except Tager and Hakumen. Interesting tidbit: 5b3d JC j.b j.2c will cross-up a crouching Tager if you jump with 9, and not cross-up if you jump with 8. Useful in the corner. Defeated by standing. Another interesting thing: 3d iad doesn't seem to let me input any attacks until very late in the iad. 5d iad doesn't have the same issue. In the air, 3d 66 j.a/b/c gives me Lobelia (a Bad Thing).

Against Noel, use 5dcc 214a, walk forward slightly, 5b 236a, etc. Against Carl, use 5cdc 214a, 5b 6a 236a, etc. You can also use this version against Noel, but depending on your starting distance you may end up too close. The no-dash combo also works on Tao from midscreen. Keep in mind that all of these combos depend on starting distance. Against some characters, you will have to adjust the combo if you're not deep in the corner or if the 5c hits from further away (for instance, combo after a successful mixup).

6b and j.a. A lot of people panic when grapple characters close the gap; trying desperately to create space is a great way to guarantee a loss.

The short of it is that she guardbreaks too easily; your lockdown is much more dangerous than her lockdown. Force her to block anything with a pumpkin out and RTSD into non-stop corner rape begins. Also, 6a.

Good points. That raises the question, though: is missing the damage from super really worth the ability to sit on meter in this matchup? I can't see that either RC or alpha counters would be that useful against Nu. I'm not sure I see the burst safety though; whether you combo to super or not, you're going to have to combo to kill her, and those combos are burstable. In other words, she's going to be able to burst out at some point, so why not super for damage when you can? Thanks for the info on the 3d j.b. Has anyone confirmed whether it connects against all crouching characters?

N-O opts not to combo into super for no good reason that I can see - any ideas? It looks like it's deliberate, since it occurs throughout the match series; I also find it hard to believe that a player of his caliber wouldn't notice he had meter. He also uses super in several situations where it had no hope of connecting, also for no good reason that I could see. Also, what is the advantage of inserting a 3d j.b j.2c in the middle of the normal ground combo (i.e. 5b JC 3d j.b j.2c, 5b 5cdc, etc.)? It seems like a waste of meter.

Arakune will be watching for you to 6a/frog his clouds, so he can tag you with j.d.

Three reps is possible against most of the cast if you launch with 2h. It's a lot harder from rekkas simply because you don't get much timing flexibility and you're pushed really far out to begin with. Finally, I wouldn't bother with three reps. On light characters, just do one rep into double keygrabs; on mids, do two reps into keygrabs. You only sacrifice a bit of damage for bar refresh and corner knockdown (granted, you don't have much/any time to run oki, but a knockdown is a knockdown :P).

421h RC ad.h xx orbs only works well against lights, and maybe some mids with thin hitboxes. You want the ad.h to catch them at the peak of the launch after the 421h; the ad.h will fling them downwards, into the orbs. If they're too low or too heavy, they'll hit the ground before the orbs come out. The benefit to doing this, instead of just 421h RC orbs, is that if you do time it correctly, the launch height after the orbs is *perfect* for two-rep orb loop - it's a nice, low float, and because you did the orbs an inch off the ground, you recover quickly also. If you started in deep corner, 421h RC delayed orbs nets more damage because of the double orb hit, but it's also harder to time (both the orbs, and the loop afterwards). Anywhere out of the corner, ad.h xx orbs is a better followup if you can get it to work. To make execution easier, buffer the airdash (if you aren't doing it already). In other words, 6, RC, 6+h. I do think butt loop is safer vs. burst just because of its trajectory - although if your opponent bursts the orb loop at the j.s, you will sometimes auto-throw the burst if you're holding forward. Not sure why anyone would burst there, and I can't even get it consistently, but there you have it. As for orb loop, there's usually no point in going beyond two reps regardless, because damage scaling has dropped your damage to single-digits by that point (the entire third loop adds maybe 20 damage average), and you always lose double keygrab (except against Potemkin - you can do three reps and still get the keygrab). Against light characters, you're limited to just one loop if you want the double keygrab, but you can get up to three sometimes (e.g., Jam, from 2h) if you don't care about the grab. The good news is that about 80% of the damage in the orb loop is in the launch+first rep, so even with one loop against lights you're still doing 200+ damage with no guard bar or tension. The height mechanics of the orb loop are kind of weird because of the way j.h works (it throws both of you downward), and the hitstop on j.d. Also, there's a lot more room to play with timing from the 2h launch than from the rekkas FRC dash 6h. From the rekkas, you pretty much just hit 6h JC j.s-h as fast as you can, then delay the j.d until you've almost hit the ground. It's the same for every opponent, and in some cases you just can't get the double keygrab because they're too light, their hitbox is too thin, etc. From 2h things get a lot more interesting. You can insert delays in a number of places depending on the opponent, and you can either airdash high or low. Some characters, like Anji, Potemkin, etc. are really easy, in which case it pretty much doesn't matter how you do it. Other characters are a bit trickier, especially if you want the dashjump on the first rep instead of just a forward jump. For instance: On Zappa: 2h JC high iad, delay j.s, pause, j.h xx orbs, land -> (dashjump j.s-h, delay j.d xx orbs, land)x2 -> keygrab x2. On Venom: 2h pause JC low iad.s, delay j.h xx orbs, land -> (dashjump j.s-h, delay j.d xx orbs, land)x2 -> keygrab x2. (where pause is a longer wait than delay). The key points to remember for 2h launch: - the iad.s should hit as late as possible (this keeps them lower to the ground) - the j.h should hit as high/late as possible (i.e., you want your opponent as far above you as you can get without j.h whiffing) - if the opponent is light, keep everything as low to the ground as possible, and delay j.h less - if the opponent is heavy, or has a bad hitbox, you'll want a higher airdash - this allows you to delay j.h longer without it whiffing. - the longer you delay j.h, the more falling velocity you have, so you will land earlier after the orbs. - landing earlier from the orbs means two things: you can do dashjump j.s instead of forward jump j.s; you can delay the j.s if you need to, which allows you to adjust the height of the next loop. - doing the dashjump on both reps, instead of forward jump on the first rep and dashjump on the second rep, makes netting the double keygrab a lot easier, especially against characters with thin hitboxes. In point of fact, most of the timing trickiness comes from the launch - if you get the right height from the launch, the loops just flow, assuming you delay the j.d correctly. In the actual loop (i.e., just j.s-h-d xx orbs), the two main things to look for are: the j.s should hit when you are above them, and the j.d should hit right before either one of you touches the ground. Done correctly, you and your opponent should be floating at the exact same height, an inch off the ground, when the j.d connects. If one of you is higher than the other, the timing can be adjusted a bit. (The technical reason for this is that being at the same height gives you the biggest delay window. If either person is lower, it shortens the window of delay). The j.d delay is the hardest to time, because if it's too late, one of two things will happen: you OTG them with j.d, or you land and do masshou. In both cases they tech out and punish you, so if you screw up you'd rather the j.d be too early than too late. The problem with doing j.d too early is that, 1) the opponent will be too high - this makes double keygrab impossible later, and 2) you are too high, so landing+recovery on the orbs is really long, and you may not even get the second loop. Finally, remember that if you ever fuck things up, you can always tack on the old 2s JC hj.s-h-(d) xx keygrab after orbs. The untechable window on orbs is long enough that 2s will hit even if your timing was completely off, and the hitbox on 2s is high enough to tag them even if they're a mile in the air.

A few notes: - 421h RC can do one of three things: delayed orbs, ad.h xx orbs, or land and double keygrab. All three are weight/hitbox specific. Anything ending in orbs links to the j.s-h-d xx orbs, so you can convert awkward midscreen hits (e.g., 2s) into corner orb loops if you have the tension. - 2h should always go into ad.s-h/d xx orbs -> orb loop. I'm not aware of any reason to do the butt loop instead, as the orb loop is really easy off of a 2h. - for double keygrabs from orb loops, you want to hit the j.s as early as possible in each iteration, and the j.d as late as possible in each iteration. Generally, you will want to hit j.s-h as fast as you can to keep low launch height, then delay j.d xx orbs until the last second. There are also specific timing variations on certain characters depending on the launcher - for instance, on Sol from 2h groundbounce, you can do {2h, delayed iad.s, delay, h-d xx orbs, (dashjump s-h, delay, d xx orbs, land)x2, keygrab x2}. Also, ending after one loop nets double keygrabs even against light characters, and it's a lot easier to time.

I'm complaining because she doesn't do as much damage as she used to, and I frankly don't see that the increased oki opportunities really makes up for that. The aspect I really liked about Baiken was being able to set up the really massive combo after landing that one solid (counter)hit in the corner. Now she's more of a 'small combo into knockdown, rinse and repeat' character, and that's just not what I was going for. For that kind of playstyle I'd just play Millia, thanks. Which, again, is why I'm considering Jam or ABA. Or, actually, I'm just dropping GG entirely because the PS2 version is bugged to hell. So anyway, good talking to you guys.

Sure, pick the two combos she can still do. What happened to her 236k FRC iad.d, 6h -> dustloop? Tetsuzansen FRC 6h? Sakura FRC 6h? And counterhit mat combos are actually distance dependant now - before AC you got at least 150 from anywhere, and a fat dustloop with tension (CH 236k, 6h JC j.d FRC iad.236k, dustloop) or in the corner. Her oki doesn't suck, but it's certainly nothing to write home about. Dust is tricky to setup because it's incredibly slow, so the amount of conditioning you have to do to even make it worth trying is pretty high. Youzansen RC takes half meter, so while it does lead to decent damage, it's not exactly one of her best options. Baiken's low hits have stupid prorates, so I'm not sure why you even bother mentioning that, and they have no reason to block high unless you have 50% meter anyway. LIke I said, the reason she's top tier is because of her guard cancel game. Most of the cast has no way to pressure her safely, and it's harder to bait GCs. And yeah, I'm thinking Baiken isn't the character for me, which is why I'm working over Jam and ABA. And frankly, I *would* keep playing Slash, except that you don't have a choice with fighting games, now do you? You have to play what everyone else is playing, or else you don't have competition.

The ability to do oki after every combo is only a real advantage if the character has strong oki setups. Baiken's oki options have always been limited and unimpressive, so I'm not convinced that all of those knockdowns are really the improvement you're making it out to be. The match videos I've seen don't suggest strong oki either. What they *do* suggest is Baiken players mashing on guard cancels to get out of all sorts of things they wouldn't normally be able to get out of, and I think that *is* a genuine and immediate advantage. I wouldn't call the mat nerf 'tiny', considering the damage and combo potential it's costing her. Air/counterhit mats used to be great, easy damage setups from anywhere - not anymore. Baiken's offense used to be quite a bit better because she had scary damage potential for 25% tension. 236k FRC iad.d 6h dustloops turned 25% tension into 250+ damage unless you started with a prorate. Counterhit 5s/2s xx 236k lolol? And counterhit mat used to be genuinely scary because of the 6h -> dustloop followup. Now what? For all that you guys worship Sharon, you're sure quick to forget all the 60~70% damage combos he landed. In #Reload Baiken was one of the highest damage characters in the game, and the intro of JCable 6h in Slash and FRC Tetsuzansen only opened up more combo options. AC is the reverse - making you work harder for less damage. Sure, you get knockdowns now - whether that's enough to compensate for her overall much lower damage is up for debate.

Name her oki improvements. The corner knockdowns come from j.d not wallbouncing. They have absolutely nothing to do with the tatami launch properties, which are garbage. Think about this: if they'd left tatami the same with the new j.d, counterhit mat from midscreen gets you 6h JC aircombo into j.d for ... you guessed it - corner knockdown. Going off the match videos, Baiken's high-tier status is due almost entirely to people not being able to pressure her. Offensively she's nothing special.

Damage is what will win you games, fun is just gravy. Baiken has to work really hard for decent damage now, and her mixups haven't really improved either; i.e., her combos do much less damage and it's not any easier for her to land hits. The only thing that really warrants her being high tier is the guard cancel options, which is bordering on broken. In my experience, the j.d FRC 236k into another dustloop is more dependant on distance from the corner than on weight. If you have them right up against the wall, the combo works against pretty much everyone, except maybe the really heavy people. As for the j.mat, a counterhit mat from anywhere used to be good for at *least* 150 damage no tension, and upwards of 200 with tension or in the corner. Maybe I'm just not used to it, but I think the new mat frankly sucks. Not being able to link j.s from standing mat is also complete bullshit. There's got to be a way to get the fast fall version of j.d consistently in normal loops, but aside from just hitting it as fast as you can, I have no clue.

She may be more 'fun', but I'm really not liking her damage. Also, the wallbounce on the j.mat is extremely annoying. j.s-d, ad.p-d, land, 5s JC j.d is possible from deep corner, but the timing on the ad.p-d is tight. You have to do it fast enough to get the 'dashbrake' version of the j.d.

^ the throw is the first hit of the combo, so I'm pretty sure the prorate on 2k doesn't matter. That said, there's the bigger issue of 2k-5s JC j.s-d pushing you too far away to land ad.s-d on most characters. throw, 236k JC sj.p-(s)-d, ad.s-d is easier and nets more damage. Is it just me, or is the j.236k, land, j.h link _really_ tight? To land j.d FRC ad.236k more easily, execute the ad.236k as 236,6k. You can start the 236 input while still in the j.d animation, so this makes the 236k followup pretty fast. I tried the FRC-dash method (6,FRC,6) but that's never worked with j.d in any of the previous games. And uh ... where did all of her high-damage combos go? >_<

If you can manage it, don't punish bandit revolver with 6p. Punish with 5s or 5h. Off of counterhit 5s you get iad.236k into dustloop. Off of counterhit 5h you get running 6h into whatever. Both are good for big damage (without tension if you're at midscreen or closer to the corner). 2d xx feint is a guessing game for him because of s counter. Also, if you see the clash you can cancel to j.623s to beat the 5h option. The safer but less damaging option for Sol is to just dp you out of the air. If Baiken jumps forward and then back airdashes, she can put down an air mat and go for pressure.

One thing to keep in mind is that Sol cannot just sweep into nothing, because that's a free s counter for Baiken. Most of the time you will see sweep xx gunflame, sweep xx bandit revolver, or something of that sort. If you ever block sweep xx bandit revolver it's Sol's ass, so you probably won't see that too often. If you see sweep xx gunflame you can beat it with j.h (careful of gunflame fake), or sakura FRC (but this forces you to block the gunflame).

Sol vs. Baiken is no good for Baiken. Guard cancels - any of them - are extremely risky at all times if the Sol has any idea what he's doing. About the only one that's relatively safe is p counter after blocking the first hit of j.h. Do not s counter without FRC. Zone more and pressure less, because 2d and dp will beat most of your typical block strings and mindgames for free. Your air is better than his - use j.s a lot. Bandit revolver is good for you; if you ever see one, 5s or 5h are free counterhits into half-life combos from anywhere. Gunflame can be punished by j.h if you predict, or ad.s on reaction, both will counterhit. Sol can grand viper chain on reaction, but it's still a good zoning tool, just use sparingly. He doesn't have a good answer to back airdash tatamis unless he's relatively close to you already, so use that to keep him out.