Miheko

fc did combo, midscreen to corner FC divider>(dash) delay 2c>5c>GH (1)>5b>delay 5c>5d (1)>delay HF>5b>6a>TK BS>5b>5d>c divider~kick (4378) FC divider>(dash) delay 2c>5c>GH (1)>5b>delay 5c>5d (1)>delay HF>5b>6a>TK BS>5b>5d>22c>CS (5226) numbers might be slightly off

5b>3c>22c to punish fireball lol

skinship

roll forward>ib>get out

it's a bit depressing a lot of OD combos barely do more dmg, if at all, than just ending a normal combo with OD super ender orz 5c CH> jcc OD is nice at 50% though 5c ch>jcc od>5c>2d dc>3c>22c>dc dead spike>6d>d divider->axe kick>j.D> slight delay gh+follow up>jc blood scythe>DbD - 7057 adding CT after 5c CH turns it into 8k

trying to join a room you are unable to join (network issues, ports/whatever etc) will sometimes crash the room entirely

ah, that makes sense, good find

huh, why not just sj block 22b then airdash out lol

a lot of chars can do delay tech roll forward>dash away vs 6b/b bunker->5c set up, not sure on the list, but feel free to test. all i know is ragna

yeah, half the cast basically needs delay 5c after 5b in most combos, might as well get into a habit of doing it

i have more trouble with dash 5b than TK BS nowadays w 7214d works for most applications it feels like. 8214d works too.

don't get too attached to blackhole->22b->3c for 7k+ dmg combos forward tech roll sort of neutralizes it, in that it makes the 3c hit too early. they wont escape with the forward roll but they'll push you back far enough

yep typo orz ;_; noted!

Black Hole What is it? Kokonoe's 632146D super, aka Black Hole. It is an unblockable attack with a vacuum effect created in front of Kokonoe, with 54f fully invulnerable start up and active frames. It's a major part of her oki game in the corner, as it leads to guaranteed free damage (7.5k+ meterless, 8.3k+ with DD ender) in the corner vs many characters, especially when they lack meter. How do I set it up? Typically Black Hole set ups are designed for corner use - these are the main methods of setting it up currently, but feel free to get creative. x->B Bunker->5c->Black Hole The go to set up. Safe vs forward rolls automatically, easy to set up from many combos. It loses to Litchi's wake up All Terminals - and for other DD escape, inputting the DD is very easy. x->6b->Black Hole A more specialized set up where you can dictate your positioning better, or use in case of risk of combo drop in B Bunker route. Positioned correctly, it will beat even Litchi's All Terminals super. However, if you mess up and execute this too close to the corner the opponent is able to delay a forward tech roll and escape the setup. The key is to position yourself just right - an example being 2c->6c->5d->j.b->land->6a->7 jump->j.b (1)->j.2c->j.236d->dash 6b->black hole. x->B Bunker->5c->22b->Black Hole A different type of set up - this beats out the roll option entirely regardless of positioning and forces an almost immediate tech. The advantage is that it makes doing a wake up super/special/overdrive quite difficult compared to a regular knockdown set up, since you're forced to tech before 22b hits you, thus putting you in a position where you need to input your super at an awkward time. The escape route would go | delay tech->superflash goes off->still in mid air from tech animation -> input super, hit the button as you land. A con of this set up is that it opens up an escape route for Jin/Hakuman, and if they choose to eat the 22b, your damage potential is reduced slightly (but still above 6k). It also opens up the open of bursting after blocking 1 hit of 22B, since bursts still hit invuln supers. What do I do after it? You either let it rock by itself for a free 1200 dmg that won't be able to kill (even if they have 1 HP), or you be a man and combo after it. You can combo after Black Hole in 2 ways - after 2nd hit, and after 3rd hit. If you combo after the 3rd hit, you start your combo with the 1200 damage from the super, along with bonus proration - this is Kokonoe's best starter. Comboing after 2 hit still works, and you'll still get good damage (3.5k~ meterless) with the option to loop into another unescapable Black Hole. Combo examples 3 hit - 8.3k, 60 meter before using Black Hole in corner. Note - 3c has a minimum range, unable to execute if you're too close. 22b->3c->2c->6c->j.5d->j.b(1)->jump->j.b(1)->j.C->j.236d->6[a]->22b->5b->5c->6b->236b->5c->5d->214214a->22a->236c www.youtube.com/watch?v=YObbTE5mxeU&hd=1 2 hit - 4175 meterless, in corner 2c->6c->j.5.d->j.b(1)->6a->j.b(2)->jump->j.b(2)->j.2c->j.236d->6b->22a->6[a]->6b->236b->5c->236c Check the combo thread for more. Who can escape it? Gets out meterless Carl - Vivace Rachel - Wind Tech Azrael - Growler Field Tager - Charged B-Sledge ->Additional Sledge. If you are able to delay tech (6b/B Bunker set up) then you can just make it by with delay tech+charged B-Sledge Gets out with meter required Ragna - Carnage Scissors Bang - Daifunka Valkenhayn - Sturm Wolf Amane - Rensoukyaku (632146C) Terumi - Messenga (41236C) (vs 22b set up, delay tech to avoid all active frames of 22b while also not getting hit by it, and then input super at awkward timing mid tech) Kokonoe - Superball C (214214C) Taokaka - Imma Beat The Crap Out Of You (grab super) Gets out with astral required Izayoi Tsubaki Arakune Hazama (Overdrive->Astral) Can get out in certain situations - typically at fault of setup [*]Litchi - All Terminals (632146C) - only works if the black hole is far enough - changed 6b setup will beat this and forward roll. [*]Hakuman/Jin - Yukikaze will get them out if you use 22b set up - but they're free to 6b/B Bunker set up. Gets Fucked (aka everyone else) [*]Mu [*]Relius [*]Makoto [*]Bullet [*]Platinum [*]Noel [*]Kagura -- relius doll super didn't really work for me - not really sure what you mean by litchi puffball lol. feel free to delete the archived post quotes

i did this in one of my day 1 videos for fun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZyi4Nf3-ho too lazy to notate it, but it's basically b bunker->5c->5d->214214a->black hole>optional otg ice gun if you're [mlg]

so im not really sure why the black hole thread (who it works vs, who needs meter to get out, who can get out meterless) got merged into this one it's a pretty crucial part of kokonoe oki and it's not on the front page - being on an obscure page in a 20+ page thread makes said info useless and hard to find i'll go mess around with it more today and see which go over character escape options. edit: if anyone wants to assist, test in corner with multiple set ups. 6b, 5c 236b 5c, and 5c 236b 5c 22c post in question http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?17437-CP-Kokonoe-Gameplay-Discussion-%28Discuss-Videos-Combos-Questions-etc-%29/page10&p=1568468&viewfull=1#post1568468

figure out your own character specific punish for it. some chars can trade and combo post trade, stuff like that.

you lead into this set up with 5c b bunker 5c. 6b can work if you're spaced perfectly but typical that's not the case unless you just pushed them to the corner. 22b 3c works since you can just mash both out and it'll be fine, much easier to hit a link asap rather than hit a specific timing www.youtube.com/watch?v=YObbTE5mxeU&hd=1

22b 3c in corner is pretty consistent blackhole OTG wise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YObbTE5mxeU&hd=1

ah, yeah. kokonoe's combos can be a bit silly with the reps (6a loop is actually pretty practical too) has anyone noticed that kokonoe's combos are really finnicky with characters sometimes? it's a bit annoying. 22a->5c can be annoying on a lot of chars, same with 5c>b bunker in corner anyway, a more reliable back throw combo meterless midscreen 4B+C > 9D > dash 3c > 2c > 6c > j.214a > land 22a > 236d > 6 > 236B [3890/37%]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpQLSbXBWtE&hd=1 6a charged/6a CH->4k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj_nK3g7fV4&hd=1 5c CH midscreen to corner ->6.3k (50% heat) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdScBXKMBJw&hd=1 5c CH midscreen to corner meterless - 5.5k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZyi4Nf3-ho&hd=1 2C fc corner punish - 8080 100 heat

assuming X is 2c starter (unless you can combo off j.2c fc), improved version 2C (no FC required) > 6c > j.5d>j.C>j.2C whiff>5c>j.b2>j.c>j.2C whiff>5c>j.b1>j.c>j.2c>j.236d>6b>22a>slight delay 5c>236b>5c>236c 6075 dmg, 43 meter gained

slightly improved 5b > 2c > 6c > j.5d > j.236d > 6[A} > 6 > 22a > 6[A] > 6B > 236c [4513/32%] adding 6a after 5b still makes it work - just 4460 dmg instead. 5b 6a 5b is 4383 dmg.

22c isn't the most amazing reversal, but many chars would have problems putting you back in the corner for it, and it's still something that the opponent has to account for - disregarding it entirely is silly these UB set ups are not comparable to something like tsubaki/jin UB set ups at all. these are basically guaranteed on around half the cast in very practical combos, and they loop into themselves marvel style, for 5k-7k per rep lol 6b is estimated around 25f - it's not the fastest overhead, but people already get blown up by 24f overheads with very little gatling options. overheads aren't just about "can you react to 25 animation cue", because if all you're doing is expecting is a standing overhead, the other person isn't mixing you up/pressuring very well enough to go for an overhead in the first place. if you jc a normal into j.2C, you can have differing levels of frame advantage/disadvantage. do it immediately and you'd have something that beats most traditional anti airs, but negative frames on landing. delay it and you'd be positive even on IB. anything is easy to react to if you play it out like a script, but actually dealing with these things in a real match can be difficult because of the sheer amount of options (unless you're a mind reader)

so kokonoe's black hole super (juuryoku - 632146d) is unblockable, drags in, has tons of invuln, and catches airborne opponents. by itself it does 1200 dmg only, but you can combo off of it in 2 ways - 2 hit black hole, which means starting the combo prorated and with 0 damage, or 3 hit, which requires a tight link (hit them as soon as they touch the ground) but grants 1200 dmg to start of combo while increasing proration anyone, for now, these are the main 2 set ups i think 6b>black hole or x->meaty 22b>black hole which chars can escape these set ups? typically the 6b setups will lose to delay forward roll if you're too close, but 1-2 steps back is enough to prevent that. preliminary testing/observations shown below. can get out of the set up and kill you for trying it - may or may not need meter ragna - CS out for free, 22b makes timing a bit harder (if tech immediately, 22b catches it last hit) but still works azrael - growler lol bang - daifunka wins valkenhayn - storm wolf carl - vivace for free amane/terumi - charge super gets out free kokonoe - do your own blackhole, lol can sort of get out, not really in practice/most cases tsubaki/izayoi/arakune - astral only (lol) litchi - at the right distance, she can't do anything. if too far, all terminal gets her out. if too close, can tech roll out. but you can strike a balance and get both options covered hakumen/jin - free reset vs 6b setup, can yukikaze 22b setup tager - overdrive>mtw gets you out preliminary list of chars who have to eat UMvC3 style 1 player game resets mu, relius, hazama, makoto, bullet, platinum, rachel, noel, taokaka, kagura