Marisa

There was briefly a CS1 thread for combos, but it appears to have been deleted. Carl's combos are somewhat complex to write down due to the negative edging and it's often better to see a video to know exactly what you're supposed to be doing when.

@Coopa 1) Not really sure, still figuring out this Rachel thing, I've mostly been working with Primer breaking shenanigans (that doesn't do so well vs Tager) and finally figuring out the j2C stuff. 2) 5B and 2B are both projectiles now, every other normal should be physical 3) Her wing overhead is 4B, cat punch anti-air is 6A, 4B cancels into 5B, 6B, 5C, or 2C and 6A cancels into 5B, 6B, 2C, or 6C 4) My Tager experience has mostly been either keep him in 6B range and be very careful with oki setups, but I'm awful at the game so take that with a grain of salt.

Since he has no j.2B you can hold 3 before/during B and still get j.5B. It's still awkward at first since Carl hadn't done anything like it previously but once you get over that the whole thing becomes fairly easy (and really boring both to watch and to perform in my opinion)

Seems very likely. Loop is high damage, DP safe, generates good heat, and it's not exactly hard to do. Unless someone finds something better than that, it's going to be a repeat of May.

22C and j./236A are different moves and do look different if you pay attention to the little details (both are pogos but that's about the end of the similarity) 22C can only be used after knockdown and ignores damage proration so it always does 400. It's also an "oki" move with slight homing abilities (if you do it farther away from a downed opponent it moves her farther forward but doesn't track teching) j./236A has up to three follow up moves (A, B, and/or C each slightly changing the move) and is affected by damage proration.

Carl's loop in CS2 cemented him in A, though the Japanese had already put him there. A character like Carl will almost always get better over time as more things are discovered too. Claptrap in CT was his (mostly) unescapable 100% combo, if you care that much for the notation it's in the archive Juggles in CS1 are his long combos that were viable for damage instead of resetting all day, if you care that much for the notations it's all that was being talked about for an extended period of time and you need to catch up. His new CS2 loop is a combo into unblockable reset, done over and over until Nirvana is almost out of health, combo into super uppercut > gear, if it doesn't 100% them then Carl turtles until Nirvana has enough health again. What Mascarpone meant was that all of these were very likely not planned by ArcSys. The players took Carl's flexible nature and found ways to combine his moves with Nirvana for these. Sure ArcSys figured that some moves were going to be combined, I can't imagine they'd not guess that jC's slap would be used to knock people into 3]D[, but I also can't imagine they foresaw the loop (especially considering ArcSys doesn't much care for loops)

Same, definitely feels like a step backward to me. Back to abusing the properties of a couple moves to do damage, CT was throws and 8]D[, CS2 is j.C and 3]D[. Bleeeh, still unhype for CS2...

The People's Elbow is beatable with most AA, you just have to make sure you do it right. It's so slow and telegraphed though so it's really easy to react to once you know when to do it

Just guessing, I'd say that Platinum (and BBCSII) won't launch until a week to a month after the PSP/3DS versions. As soon as sales of the portable versions die down the patch will come out. Less people will buy the portable ones if they already have access on their console of choice. You know people will be buying it just for early access.

It was my understanding that VivaceB's full invuln was removed for the Final Release. Pretty sure it was mentioned in the General forum in a CS2 changes thread. 5th loke-test was the last, but that doesn't mean that the 5th loke-test was the final product. There were further changes made after the 5th test.

I'm just curious if people will be able to sweep on reaction, we all know how awful VivB's recovery is.

Being a downer again, but most of the sweeps are like Carl's, a counterhit makes them full knockdown and follow up combos become possible. Vivace puts you in counterhit state longer than the invuln frames, sweeps are easy to hitconfirm into combos so it's probably one of the least safe ways to escape pressure.

You can do 4]D[ fairly early in almost any combo, ... 8]D[, 5C, 4]D[, jB (and/or jC depending on distance to opponent and how late you input 4]D[), 44, 5C. sjc jb, j2C, 214C, 8]D[, IAD, j2C, 2]D[, j2C, 214C, 8]D[ (2 hit), Fermata is my usual setup since I'm bad at Volante in combos. Be sure not to use too much 5C before doing this part as they'll be able to tech it. You can also do it after a Volante or Double Volante in pretty much the same manner, input 4]D[ during 5C and jB/jC to keep them from teching. Mind you I could be wrong on this one, as I mentioned I'm bad at Volante so I've not performed this one very much. There's some other ways to follow it up, you can see them in the ambivalent world combo video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW3Z4LfbiZw EDIT: Oh yeah, you can use it to attempt a reset too, combo into 5B, 4]D[, and vivaceA during the hit, vivaceA back and then pick up the 4]D[ as usual. Don't use this too much, as most people are already familiar with the mixup and will block it pretty easily, and the more you use it against someone the more likely they'll block it.

Isn't Arakune's 2C or 3C fatal too? It's not.

Unfortunately videos are leaving me pretty unhype too, I want to like him but I just don't see the fun. Like I said before though, my personal issue is that my favorite part of Carl is Nirvana, and the limitations on her just make me sad. The fact that Carl is the most interesting character in CS2 is not lost on me, and really only serves to make me less hype about CS2 in general. I probably will be maining Rachel, though I will be giving Carl a fair chance. Platinum's Swallow Moon shennanigans look fun, so I'm very likely subbing her. I no longer think Carl will be bad, just not the character I fell in love with anymore.

Makoto getting the slightest hit on you is very likely to end up with you in the corner and even her blockstrings are likely to carry you close, making the backdash an even less likely escape. This is part of why I'm so down on CS2 Carl, his defense is miserable. Makes it seem like rushdown characters will have an easy time with him. (Of course the biggest reason I'm down on CS2 Carl is because my favorite part of playing Carl is using Nirvana, you know, the part that makes him unique and fun.)

Remember, CS2 IBs are half as good and Vivace A has no invuln, escaping Makoto's pressure isn't as easy as CS1

Top tier or bottom, CS2 Carl doesn't look all that fun to me. His options will always be limited by Nirvana's weak constitution. Also an S tier Carl doesn't make any sense to me considering his Mu matchup is still awful, and I can't imagine he's all that great vs rushdown characters due to how weak his defense is, or characters that can just run away the whole match... I mean sure, once you let Carl take over a match he's pretty strong, but that goes for just about any character.

Eh, it just seems to me that a major event is more of a spoiler than a character. Evatrice is a spoiler, I won't argue that, but it doesn't really spoil anything beyond the character, what she does and to who isn't spoiled at all. Actions in a fighting game aren't very likely to reflect VN actions. Shannon's meta-world super just seems more... spoilerish I guess. Anybody is free to tell him, It won't be me though.

Shannon's meta-world super is a bit of a spoiler for Episode 2 (happens toward the beginning but I still don't want to ruin it for anybody.) Read it and you'll understand what she's saying

There's a difference between people getting creative with Carl's moves and making new combos, and being able to play Carl creatively. I personally was talking about the latter which I assumed is what soujiro was talking about too. CS2 seems too much like the combos being worked on are to get around the issue that Nirvana is too easy to kill, rather than using Nirvana to supplement Carl's attacks. Since you're not able to use Nirvana freely, you have to focus more on maximizing your Carl combos rather than Nirvana shennanigans. I'm not saying I won't play him in CS2, it just seems like he'll be less fun for me.

I can't agree more with most of what you said here. I originally picked Carl for the creativity offered (even though CT's creativity was just 'get them into claptrap') CS2 Carl seems a lot like CT Carl, you have to abuse the properties of a couple moves in order to do damage, rather than CS where you were able to abuse the fact that there were two characters that could work together.

Everyone got nerfed, and I didn't figure Carl would get out without at least losing his long combos (as Carl and Litchi were the biggest reasons people wanted them gone.) The problem is that the system changes and Carl's nerfs really seem to be hitting him harder than a lot of other characters. As has been said, why bother with Carl's learning curve if there's no real reward for it? Sure there's "reward" in playing an underused/low tier character and doing well, but Carl had underused status when he was good. Still hoping that some amazing strategy is discovered that puts Carl back in action, but I still get the feeling he's going to be benchwarming harder than ever.

He's not CS Rachel, nobody is that bad in CS2. Though I worry about his learning curve, makes me wonder if it will be worth the effort this time. Anymore I'm mostly just bummed because CS1 Carl plays exactly how I want Carl to play. I don't care what tier my character is in, as long as they're fun. CS2 seems like it took out the fun :<

I've seen most people saying that it was like CT, where it was an unairblockable.