BatousaiJ

Not offended- just tired of going over this particular topic over and over again. Hence the "Le sigh".

Le sigh. I just called it "neutral tech" for simplicity sake since it has the same effect, I know exactly what's going on. Besides, I always go straight to the lab to test stuff out that are posted before commenting on it if I hadn't messed around with it too much previously so I've seen and tested all the scenarios.

Not really relevant to be talking about how another character has an option good for everything when we're specifically talking about Tsubaki. Anyhow, I feel you're beating on a dead horse at this point as I've stated before that it's a preference of mine to assume for neutral tech over trying to punish late tech/rolls off j.214A unless my opponent has been prudent in showing that he has a tendency to do so. I would obviously shift my strategy to a different option. Also, speaking of misrepresenting scenarios, you make it sound like you give up the initiative entirely in the scenario where you full mid combo 5D ender in the case of neutral tech since you have plenty of time to 2A or 5B meaty for initiative after 5D free charge. So the first scenario presented becomes a flat 300 damage loss and that's it which equals a loss and not a win. Still, even with the possible damage loss,it's definitely useful in punishing tendencies when they have been established- if nothing else than to force them to start neutral teching instead.

It's not like you're putting a stop to late tech rolls entirely with this option, it just delays it by punishing them with a tiny bit of extra damage and then you're back to playing the guessing game again. The scenario presented is one either where you do the full 100% guaranteed 3.1k damage, get some free unpunishable charge time and then settle for the inevitable guessing game or you can opt to do 2,8k and then hope that your opponent isn't going to go with the most commonly used option of neutral tech and if you get the blue beat you get an extra 200 damage. That's more or less it because you can't blue beat combo him again due to proration after the j.214B punish ender. If you don't catch them trying to roll, you just lost 200 damage and free charge time.

It'd be pretty silly for anyone to opt for the exact same option every single time, especially if the opponent has shown a tendency of getting out of it. I was talking about the times you would set up for command grabs as the 5D has the benefit of accelerated charge time along with setting up the exact timing when you can command grab on neutral tech(which is the most common option opponents take from my experience). I'm not particularly a big fan of the blue beat option since I like doing my full damage combos mid screen every time without assuming my opponent's going to let me pick them back up with 2A into a whole lot of nothing due to the proration. Why settle for extra damage in a "maybe" scenario when I can just have it as a certainty? The 2A for catching rolls is something I've been doing for a while, especially with how many of our max damage corner combos end with j.214A in which case they can just forward roll out of the corner with ease. Then you just pick them up and cross over with 2A > 5C > 2C > 214B > etc etc to put them right back in the corner, where they belong. Like I said, know the options and use them appropriate for the situation and opponent's mindset at hand- there's no one good option for everything.

I use 5D to setup the timing perfectly for the command grab, I'd use something else if I were trying to catch a roll.

I've always done j.214A standard every time so the differences isn't something I noticed. It is true that you're in perfect distance for 5D > command grab the instant you land anywhere in the screen.

The 2B cross under command grab is one of those setups I had in my CP video but I've found these days people aren't blocking the right direction to begin with so I end up just going with 2BB to get the hit in. 5C > 2D > dash command grab? Humm, not sure why that would work more than any charge cancel setup so that's a bit weird.

Command grabbing is pretty useful whether they have barrier or not so when they're without barrier I would probably try for the more higher gain like CT guard break. A standard combo with 1 charge even mid screen after guard break for Tsu is around 4k~ which is pretty nice. I'm also fiddling around with some resets in the air that punish non barrier blocking for scenarios when they opt not to or can't because they're out of barrier meter. Speaking of command grabs, what are some of you guy's favorite times to command grab? Two of mine are corner 5B > IAD j.B© > command grab and j.214A ender > 5D > command grab.

You can still use 6C > 421A on block to cover yourself mostly. They'd have to be mashing pretty hard to punish that and if they get really cheeky trying to mash dp or jab in between 6C > whatever, you can just 6CC for a CH and it'll lead to a full IAD combo. Just know if they block 6CC you're kind of a sitting duck, even if you have charges so probably only go for that route when you're sure you've got them trained properly or have meter to RC if it doesn't work. I'll try the 6B route with CT for reset sake to see if it's worthwhile.

So, I've noticed I wasn't really doing a good job of taking advantage when my opponent spends all of his barrier bar. I only know of CT guard break which seemed easy enough to set up for when they have no barrier with 6C > CT. What are Tsu's air unblockables(sans barrier)?

Hey, whatever works. I've been practicing the way I do my IAD since CS2 days so I must've done it easily tens of thousands of times already.

6CC > 214B > 5C > 2CC is fine, the window is long enough to consider it on the easier size as long as you know that you shouldn't be adding needless delay in the other timings.

I was practicing some combos last night and discovered the way buffering works in this iteration, mashing hurts your inputs quite a bit, especially when IAD is considered. It's naturally for me to press 6CC a few times without thinking, because why not and their start buffering 9>6 to get the IAD j.CC continuation but I noticed that there were many times where I would remain grounded or I would get a standard 9 without the IAD and was trying to wrap my brain around why this was happening since my IAD buffering techniques have always been the same. After a bunch of experimentation , it turns out that inputting extra Cs for 6CC was having a major negative effect and eating up my IAD buffering in turn and when I began inputting 6CC precisely, my IAD came out basically every single time. An odd little thing but with that knowledge, I won't mash inputs for combos and go for specific timing instead, even when I don't really have to. This of course can work again me in netplay with input lag and everything considered but well, that's netplay. Also, in matches I noticed a bit of an inconsistency with one of the simple corner combo routes. 5BB > 5CC > 236D > 22D > CT > 6CC > 214B > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214A Try that combo a few times(make sure to keep track of hits and you might notice that sometimes the combo will drop at 2CC from time to time. I thought at first it was a matter of how many hits you get in on 6CC before you go into 214B and while this is true in some sense as if you opt for one less hit of 6CC, this combo will basically work everytime, it seems there's another factor involved, combo time. I remember from one of our previous discussion that if a combo lasts a certain amount of time, it will mess with proration and it feels like that's the issue here. When I do that whole combo quickly, it seems to work but when I add delays to hits like CT, 6CC, 214B and 5C > 2CC pick up(lots of places to add slight delay), the combo will drop unexpectedly. The "combo time" is something I've heard of before but I haven't actually seen it in practice before so I'm curious as to whether or not this is indeed a case of it so do try the combo out yourself and report if you find something different.

I think so? Either that or we did 6C > CT stuff that I can vaguely remember.

Along with what Dae mentioned, her 5C > 2C > 236D > 6CC stuff is a bit tricky, along with the j.b j.cc route but overall, I would agree that this variation of Tsu's definitely not the toughest.

"This working is heavily dependent on how much you delay the j.236A when you whiff it. The concept is nice though." I didn't see anything about delaying the 2C in what we were talking about in twitter but the notations are the same. Either way, the damage isn't the important thing about this, it's a feasible way to consistently get increased untechable time which gives you much more flexibility in setting up your next offensive move or even forgoing that entirely to get a significant amount of charge. It's one of those intangible things you don't see in damage numbers but often means much more, like corner carry.

623C > 236(A) > 5C > 2C > 236D > 6CC is tricky but it's not quite as hard as you might think. The real annoyance comes from the awkward switching of timing required on half the roster is different from the rest. The one good thing about this route is that you can get a feel for when 6CC isn't going to work so you can often just shift the combo route to the standard dash 5C > 2C > 214B route when you feel that's the case for only a small penalty in damage in the most common BnB scenario starting from 5BB > 5CC > etc etc. I also figured out a way to decrease the difficulty of the ridiculous 22[b} for maximum untechable time/slide by changing the timing in a different location rather than trying to delay the 22B manually which is very difficult due to way buffering works. Try this in the corner as a practice/demostration- Throw > 22[D] > 5C > 2C > 214B > (2C) delayed to the last moment > 236A > 214B > 22 Whether you get the successful 22B will be determined by whether or not you timed the 2C properly and 236A > 214B > 22[b} can be inputted normally without any delay. I find it's much easier to find the timing for the proper height of that 2C hit than it is to work around the input buffering of 22B. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you can tell whether you did correctly by seeing the untechable time. The 2C timing after 214B can be applied on nearly every instance where there is a 5C > 2C > 214D/B which is very, very common. I've begun started implementing it in many of the BnBs which resulted in me being able to either dash up to my opponent before they can even start teching or free time to charge about (about 1.8 when held down right about 22 till the time they tech).

Ya, that's good. It's not a difficult combo and the bit of extra damage and charge never hurts.

After doing some testing, Hakumen is fine with 5B > 2C. Tager and Az are both fine as well. Makoto is the real nightmare when it comes to hitboxes and neither one will work off a standard 236D, better use that terribly 5B > j.BC > j.BCC > j.214A ender for her.

Typical Tsubaki character specific nonsense. Use 5B > 2C to pick up instead of 5C > 2C on those characters, it's much easier to connect and the damage is fairly close.

The second hit of 5CC is the hit that OTGs and still does. I stopped using 214D as a way to stuff moves so much after projectiles started getting a additional properties. Now it doesn't even go further using 236X > 214D and doesn't go as far autocorrecting as well so it's become even less useful as a standard move. As far as a combo goes, you can go with a standard 214D > 5C > 2C > 214B > 623C > j.236(A) > 5C > 2CC > j.C > j.CC > j.214A for 2.8k or so for a easy BnB.

I thought j.214A ender was because it had a very slightly quicker recovery time compared to the opponent than j.214B/C? Or at least that's how it feels like.

That method won't work in the corner as j.214A will hit the enemy, the j.236(A) whiff is a bit weird when you just start to use it but the timing really isn't too hard, I recommend just biting the bullet and learning it instead.