C0R

All of those combos start with j.2c....

Hm, ok. We might need to do some system level tests. Can you confirm 6a's speed? It should still be applicable for original topic.

It combos into 236c (14f) on air hit so I would assume it's unchanged.

Here are some quick, easier bnb's Standing Ground CH : 6a 5c 6b 3c SoD = 2194/15 Crouching Ground CH : 5c 2c 6c 63214b 66a 6d 5c 6b 2c 2d j.b j.c dj.b dj.c j.2c SoD = 3309/23 Air CH : 66 2b 6a 4d 5c 6b 2c 2d j.c j.b dj.b dj.c j.2c 6c 5[D] 2c 6d j.c j.2c = 3047/21

Math time, decay values aren't quite what they were recorded at in 1.1, but it's close enough for theory purposes. 5a 623b combos at <660f (-6f hitstun decay): 5a is air untechable for 14 frames, 623b is 9 frames, at -6f hitstun 5a is air untechable for 9 frames, efficiently comboing into 623b as a 9f move. Assuming same combo timer 623c is 15f (wiki needs to be updated, I just tested it): at -6f hitstun Izayoi would need a special cancelable normal with effectively 21f of air untechable time. Based on the old frame data, 6a is such a move! With the same startup as 5c, a better hitbox and more untechable time, it should make your combo work.

Yes If you're getting grabbed out of your meaty you're missing your meaty by at least 7 frames, that's enough for every character in the game to jab you, so throw invulnerability wouldn't help. Tao can simply hold 3 after IB'ing 5c and crawl right under the 6c gatling, it's very common at higher level play as it's her only real meterless defensive option.

Sj.b = Super Jump B Ikutachi/tachi = 63214B 6b is an overhead, combos starting with 6b usually assume crouching state, which is how 5c>6c combos on ground hit.

Throw combos will be the same as 6a combos. From what I tested anyway, full charge SoD might change that but requires testing,

I guess what I meant to say is that she's been able to do this in every game pretty much. I can't think of one where she couldn't on taller characters.

If it was a true blockstring he wouldn't have been able to backdash and we would have seen GUARD BONUS pop up like the old tao blockstrings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRw2s2VXhLM

ArcSys no. Stop. It's already bad enough with the ps4 menu kicking in whenever Huey yelled too close to the devkit.

It's not coming out on xbox I thought?

All uppercuts are VS starters these days IIRC?

Frame data is normally distributed independently of the mooks, the mooks are just publications of already public information. If you're looking for a specific character chances are that information is already out on the internet in some JP wiki. Consult the character forums.

Probably. Couple folks from out of town came down with something hard post con.

I can definitely get behind this to a degree. No matter how good µ could ever be I'll still walk into a tournament and be like "oh shit Jin, that's going to be a problem, I don't like fighting Jin, he has a lot of great tools that beat mine" Sure. At the same time, if I have really strong µ fighting just-ok Jin, I'd be more comfortable with it. There's a perceptible difference in how a strong character fights a weaker characters, it's tangible in things like damage and abare, on if he needs meter to combo midscreen in the version or not. Even putting these concepts aside, and I'd love to run through a dissertation on why exactly I think Hakumen does well against Bang, but this isn't the time or place for that, Bang would have an INNATE problem with Hakumen simply because in every version of the game that Bang's been good, well, Hakumen's usually a little better right? Yeah totally. But let's look at how the balance progressed over time. Easy characters jump out of the screen on week/month 1. But right before CSX release I don't think anyone thought she was as good as Litchi/Valk/Hazama/Makoto/Tao. Same with Jin, he's a solid, really strong character but... he's not at the level of the characters I brought up previously.

The kneejerk reaction of "you obviously don't know something/haven't thought about this at the depth I have" comes up every time. Literally every time someone brings up a point that doesn't come into line with someone else's perceived expectations. Think about why I'm saying what I'm saying. If a character is harder to execute, resulting in the same output, you are forced to invest more effort to execute them. Look at CS2 Jin, CS2 Noel. These characters aren't the best, but they are really, really easy. Why do you think you saw Jin/Noel in the high spectrums of most tier lists when Carl went basically unmentioned aside from the footnote of "secret S tier if anyone played him lololol". It's fine to think about bang being theoretically as strong, sure. Where is he in tournaments? Where is he on highly circulated tier lists for 1.1? The answer would be "not very good". Dora himself told me this in person at Evo. "I don't feel bang is very strong compared to CSX! Bang is goldfish rah rah rah" and so forth.

For the record Huey plays almost exactly like Dora. Like he literally emulated Dora for 5 years and that's how he learned how to play BB. Which is why I can see why Dora ranks Hakumem high. Because Huey struggled against Hakumen for a long long time.

I'll put it this way. It would be very difficult to convince me that there was a better Bang than Huey outside of JP. It would also be very difficult to convince me that there was a better Hakumen than Spark outside of JP (a lot of Jp players claim he is top 3 of hakumen players even over there). I have been watching these players play for a long, long time (thousands of games per version), ever since CT. What game would you say it's even in? Extend? Hakumen was easily on the top of the roster, and had with character specific instant overheads on Bang for wayyy too much damage. Cp? Half of the Bang players quit and it was universally agreed that he wasn't quite as good as he had been, meanwhile Hakumen continued to be terror as the reigning god of overdrive, even losing the instant overhead the difference between the characters remained. And I have come to these conclusions: Nails are ineffectual against hakumen in anything but the classed tk Dnail pressure resets of the golden age due Zanshin simply blocking them for free. They are telegraphed, and at the ranges where they are close enough to be fast enough to be unreactable Hakumen has a great sword normal to attempt a counterpoke (which bang would normally get a whiff punish for EXCEPT that the sword cuts the nail, giving him the seal) Hakumen has superior normals on the ground and in the air, if you don't believe in the power of j.b/5b outclassing everything else by eons I don't know what to say. Hakumen's normals simply are constructed to be just about the best normals in the game, and at their effective ranges Bang doesn't have access to real tools that normally indicate a bad matchup for Hakumen (Sword Summoner, Curse) I could keep going but I'll extrapolate more later cause I have to go.

Flipside is maybe just maybe Bang has a bad matchup against hakumen? Like he always has?

You can reboot them by just hitting a button combination.

PS3 sticks didn't work on the PS4 Debug Kit, which is more or less the shipping version of the game. I wouldn't bet any amount of money on them adding that functionality in the extremely short timeframe until ship.

Everything gatlings into 6b except 6c and 3c. Everything, including steins. 6b (either hit) gatlings into any c normal and any stein.

Well there are the bad rushdown characters that are actually pretty good now, but µ never really had a problem in CS2 with high tier Makoto/Tsubaki.

It's a joke, continues to be a joke I should say. I mean you might not want to fish for 5d 5c in neutral because trading with sledge is a bad idea but new j.2c rocks him so hard. Plus there's no worries about him 720'ing you out of 6b because you can do gapless strings into it. Plus Totsuka stays out longer so it's not as easy for him to sledge.