Sigcius

in general 214P[4] works more consistently and for more characters than 214K[6] for mid-combo, although 214K[6] carries further to corner if it doesn't switch side. when it comes to heavyweights, use 6H > 623S > 214S > 214P[4] > j.S > j.6H >... BTW, how many reliable meterless mid-screen dust combo are there aside the challenge mode one? It doesn't seems to hit Chipp past the first j.6H and I can't seem to get the 5D > 6 > 5H... one to work on any characters aside Potemkin. The combo I'm using in the meanwhile is : 5D > 8 > j.D > j.D > j.D > j.c > j.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H for 144 dmg 3k calories but something about it seems....unoptimized. Replacing the first two j.D with j.6H gives 10 more dmg but won't work well with Elphet. *EDIT* Found a decent dust combo: 5D > 8 > j.6H > j.D > j.D > j.c > j.K > j.S > j.6H > j.236H (> j.214S > j.236H if close to wall) for 143 (151) dmg 1k (5k) calories.

For those who pokes/zone with 236H, if it hit CH with only the second hit (which means from a certain distance onward) causing the opponent to wallbounce, it seems to be possible to 214P(6) > j.S > j.6H > 5S > 5H... Works against all characters except for Elphet (don't have Leo to test though). And Faust's air hitbox make it so that you need to omit 5S going straight from j.6H > 5H. It might not see much use, but since 236H (CH) is pretty easy to hit confirm and to see whether the opponent's going to fly/wallbounce or not, well, it doesn't hurt to know. And it's more reliable than 236H(CH-wallbounce) > 236236P >... BTW, for characters like Potemkin and Bedman which can be hard to 623S (crit) > 214P/K > j.6H, doing 214P/K > j.S > j.6H seems to solve the problem.

I see your point. But while I would agree with you if the combo only works on counterhits, the main point I wanted to bring was that the combo works when hitting people from the air such as: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRwt-wJuO3I&t=1m17s 1:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdL7IozDsEU&t=1m50s 1:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMAYja-Ud2w&t=0m30s 0:30 also happen at 2:15, 4:30, 4:38 While it's not common enough that you'll find it in every round, it seems to happen once in a while. The ground counterhit and air counterhit version of the combo is more or less to complement/cover the alternatives. It was less about the combo itself and more about 214S > 214P/K[4,5,6] > (late J.6H) > 5S part because the combo works anywhere on 214S's range, even at the limit of it's range, which is sin's farthest non-overdrive reach. That and it can be cancel into should give it some kind of niche, something like after a blocked 236H. Perhaps I erred and should have brought that to gameplay discussion? It's because among the videos I've seen most players doesn't seem to do much from air hit 214S unless the opponent was near wall, some using RC too. since 214S's air hit confirm is pretty easy to react to I only though it might be worth looking into this follow-up combo and perhaps it can offer some uses.

I'm not sure if 214S is so bad of a starter that nobody commented on it or nobody bothered with it yet but since I don't see any (written) mention anywhere (as a starter instead of mid-combo), I would like to point out that: 214S on (high?)AA, AA(CH)or CH > 214P/K[4,5,6] > (late J.6H) > 5S > 5H(1) > 6H > 623S (crit) > 214S > 214P(4) > late J.6H > 5S > 5H(1) > 6H > 236H (> 214H) is a thing. (~273 dmg on sol, don't know how to calculate calorie but less than default amount) It still need more testing, but in general: For the 214P/K [4,5,6], well, it probably need more testing for the characters and all, but: - if within far 5S distance, then 214P[4] - if outside far 5S distance but within 236H distance, then 214P neutral - if outside 236H distance, then either 214P[6] or 214K neutral can work; 214P[6] is more consistent in general but might miss crit on 623S for some heavy/male characters. As most 5H(1) > 6H > 623S combos, use 6H with or without delay to adjust the height of the opponent For 214S on grounded CH: - only thing to note is as above, depending on the distance you're hitting with 214S, it's usually 214P[4,5,6] unless on the heavy/male characters on the tip (combos but probably can't 623S crit), which 214K neutral would be better. For 214S on AA(high?): - usually at the highest point of jump or about normal air dashes. Chipp's normal jump's highest point is outside the reach of 214S. - light/female characters (and chipp?) when hit would be too high for the (late J.6H), in which case just omit the J.6H, land, 5S > 5H then continue. - when in doubt, change 623S for 236H (> 214H). For 214S on AA(CH): - in general the character will bounce too high; just land and 5S then continue. 214S is slow, but the range on both vertical and horizontal make it sometime useful on air dash prediction or projectile prediction. Regardless, it's meterless mid-screen >250 dmg that can be done from almost across the screen. as an alternative, 214S (CH,AA,AA(CH))> 236K (whiff) > 66 > 5S > 5H(1) > 6H... works too, but will probably not get 623S crit. on close 214S normal hit, there is the > 236H > RC > 66 route.

Not too sure if it was posted somewhere since it's just a mix of two known combo but I didn't see it so... (EDIT: It totally was already posted previously.): (ground-hit, 18 meter) 5D~D > 66 (can change side) > 5C > 236B~D > 66 > 5C > IAD > J.A > J.C > 5C > (delay?) 214A~C x 5 > Mudoon > 214D > 5AA > (236A~D > 214D) x N (~7.4k) Reasons to use it instead of the deadly 5D~D > 5C > Mudoon is that it works anywhere since it carries farther and can change side. Moreover need less starting meter. Sometimes the C shots make the Mudoon whiff when the character is too high up. if delaying the C shots does not solve the problem, you can use A shots instead to make the Mudoon connect for sure, although that will cut the damage to around 5.9k~ an easier but more costly variation: (ground-hit, 55 meter) 5D~D > 66 (can change side) > 5C > 236B~D > 66 > 5C > IAD > J.A > J.C > 5C > 236AB > Mudoon > 214D > 5AA > (236A~D > 214D) x N (~7.4k) For fun/trivia: (cornered, 150 meter) 214214A~C > RC > 5D > 5AA/2B/5B > ~D > 6 > (5C) > Mudoon > 214D > 2B/5B/5AA > 236A~D > 2[C] > 66 > 5B/5AA/2B > (5C) > (236B~D) x N (death) (cornered, 150 meter) 214214A~C > RC > 5D > 5AAA > (wall bounce) ~D > Mudoon > 214D > 2B > 236A~D > 2[C] > 66 > 5B > 5C > (236B~D) x N (~7k?) (cornered, 150 meter) 214214A~C > RC > 5D > 2B > 236B > D (D) > Mudoon > 66 > 214D > 5AA > IAD > J.A > J.C > 5C > (236A~D > 214D) x N (~8k?) (cornered, 100 meter) 214214A~C > RC > 5D > 2B > 236A > D (D) > 236B~C x 5 (~5.3k)

Oh, i think you're right. i forgot you need to cancel 3c with 236a. i said barely hit because if you're too close to the character the lobelia won't be close enough to the ground when it hits them and them will tech. if you cancel 3c with 236a you should be make the second 236a in time. CH 2c 2d -> 236a works better the farther the opponent is, as opposed to ch 2c 2d ->5cc where it's better the closer. so one covers the blind range of the other. EDIT: actually, it still works even without 236a canceling 3c, but instead of hitting once you do 3 hits, backdash, 236a, etc. but it's ~2.8k if you don't 236a cancel since you only have 1 pole.

hmm, for some time i've noticed a few interesting thing in rachel's CH 2C and while i've been reading alot of rachel combo lists i have yet to see them, perhaps people didn't pay too much attention to 2C. or maybe it's because of the slightly hard execution. or maybe i missed it when someone posted it. while CH 2C 2D (right when they start to launch up) 66 9 j2cD (lv2) BBL/5B->air combo - 2 winds appeared on some rachel videos, some others i noticed are: CH 2C 2D (right when they start to launch up) 5CC 236B 214C - 1 wind or CH 2C 2D (right when they start to launch up) 5CC 236A 1D 214C 5B -> air combo - 2 winds CH 2C 2D (right when they start to launch up) 5CC 236A 1D BBL -> BBL follow-up - at least 2 wind 5CC hits on all 3C-able characters and some non 3C-able characters, need to re-test that. more dmg than most standard CH cat chair combos but for 2 winds the j2c deals a bit more dmg though 5cc gives you more options and you stay on the ground longer, therefore more wind recovered (near 1 wind vs 1 wind half). Basically it's the same as if you got a random frog hit and 5CC the opponent. and: CH 2C 2D (right when they start to launch up) 236A (the lobelia has to hit them when they're on the ground) 214C 66 5B -> air combo - 1 wind. it works on everyone except tager, taokaka and rachel i think, mostly because their down hitboxes are pretty tall so the lobelia hits them too early or they recover. it deals more dmg than standard CH 2C 2D 5B but you can't make it into BBL. while for 1 wind it's quite worth it, the timing to connect 236a is quite strict. and also, in the corner, against 3c able characters, if you opt for a bit more dmg instead of oki when you have no heat or only have 1 wind, EDIT:5b 5cd c 214a, 66 3c (barely hits) 236a 44 236a (the lobelia barely hits the character near the ground) 214c 66 9->air combo - ~2.9k dmg for standard air combo,1 wind a fun combo to do on ragna - CH 2C 2D (right when he starts to launch up) 5CC 236A 1D BBL 236b 5cc 236c 214c - 2 winds already known but for fun, after a while of 6C8D, j.C jc grab RC j2c 2D -> follow-up depending on lv2 or lv3 j2c. some tricks that works once or twice in the match (surprise/mindgame needed) already known but not seen alot of people using it: if someone blocks 6CD (especially Tager), jc and delay a bit j2c and the will j2c hits them from their back and you land somewhere a bit far where it's relatively safe and you can special cancel if you want. most people can't block the j2c because they don't know if you do j2c from front or behind. at the beginning of the match, sj7D and start 236b/c until mid-high corner. if opponent runs and arrives under you, you can: 214b 2d for safer landing, j2cd for fatal or 236a on block, jc THEN j2cd, or jc 3/6/9D. unless your opponent has very good timing and can guess what you do, they can't hit you most of the time. if they blocks, then keep shooting lobelias. if you do it right, almost no character should be able to hit you while you sj7D at the beginning might be a bit late now that bbcs2 is coming soon but i thought someone might find these interesting.