DanTheTimid

Changing subject, what would you all say is the best way to start a round? I'm assuming it varies a bit depending on the match up, but in general, are there any opening actions that tend to be stronger then the rest? For example, currently I tend to start my rounds by either: 1) j.cc (in theory its an IAD into j.cc but still haven't perfected my IADing yet) 2) back dash into 5D tap (my second favorite opening after the j.cc, if they play passively I get quick charge, if they play aggressively I skip the 5D and react accordingly) 3) 5B (usually use this if my opponent keeps running at me at the start of matches) 4) 2C (usually use this is my opponent keeps jumping at me at the start of matches) 5) 3C (use this sparingly in a long series of matches with the same person if I notice he doesn't block low at the start of the match) I've also recently been experimenting with doing 22x at the start of the round in the same scenarios I would use 5B, but while the range is a little better, the slower start up occasionally seems to hurt me if they get on me fast enough. Also looking into opening with a 236x move, as they seem to stuff an awful lot of stuff and even catch a few jumping openings, but not sure which is the best strength to open with yet. Edit: In regards to the DP debate, I'd like to add that, yes, if I had infinite charge I'd always use the D version over the A version when trying to get people off me, no reason not to to use the move with more invulnerability, but I'm finding many of the better players online make acquiring charge very difficult such that its not uncommon for me to get no more then 1-2 charge meters in an entire round. That may just be a fault of my own ability right now, but with that currently being the case, when given the choice between having 1 more frame of invulnerability that likely won't matter and having an extra meter that can dramatically increase the damage of my next combo or do a better job of carrying my opponent into the corner, its hard for me not to take my chances with a 623A to preserve the meter.

The thing is, as Airk pointed out to me earlier in this thread, 623D has only 1 frame more of invulnerability, is that one frame really that big of a deal and really worth using a charge meter? Seems like the situations in which 623D would get them off you that 623a wouldn't because of 1 extra frame of invulnerability are kind of rare, but perhaps I don't understand how important that last frame is. I can, however, see how the A version could fail to get them off you if they were using a projectile destroying move though.

I'd be totally up for it, but unfortunately I don't have CS for xbox (though I do have CT), or an active gold live account. I have a x-box 360 and a (currently silver) live account, but haven't used it to play anything online in some time. Been going through some pretty tough times financially for over a year now, once they hit I stopped paying for xbox live and started getting all my online games for the ps3 for its free online play. When microsoft increased the xbox live price that only further justified my decision for me and haven't turned back. So yeah, if you ever get CS for PS3 I'm definitely up for a match, until then, unless microsoft does another of their free month of live specials they do like once every other year or so and a friend loans me a copy of CS for x-box, probably won't be able to, sorry.

PSN ID: DanTheMeek (For some reason DanTheTimid was taken so had to use my secondary name, first time that's ever happened to me in the 10 or so years I've been using this handle) Location: Phoenix, AZ Technically in Glendale now but I'm still just like a block away from Phoenix (and a block away from Peoria as well), and more people know where Phoenix is then Glendale. Also very new, both to Tsubaki and BB itself (I've owned both console games since release but never decided to try to play a BB competitively until a few days ago) but not too proud to get my butt handed to me for 10-20 conesuctive matches while I learn (as my long time competitive BB friend will attest from these last couple days).

Definitely interesting looking at the frame data. Based on that it seems like the reason I had no success with 214a and 214c is because A isn't invulnerable long enough to easily pass through many projectiles and C gets its invulnerability so late that you basically have to be psychic and predict the projectile is coming before they even throw it, which is a shame because most of the time I want to pass through a projectile I'm at such a range that I'd either want to only move forward a little bit, or move far enough to hit them, what A and C could have done, where as B can pass through the projectile on reaction but moves me just far enough to be in range of being punished on wiff, but not far enough to hit them. D seems like its invulnerability is almost the same as Bs, though starting a little bit later making it a little harder to use on reaction, but its not that much slower to get the invulnerability and the range should be enough to hit them so I guess I'll try to use that when being zoned and having charge. Would you say that's an accurate assessment and a good plan? Do you yourself use 214D to approach when being zoned with projectiles? Awesome, those are pretty much exactly the attacks I've been struggling against, with the addition of Rachel's dress drill move as well (623B would work well against that as well too, correct?), definitely plan to try 623B against those attacks from now on. Other wise will definitely be sticking to 2C for all my anti-air needs. Thanks again for all your thoughts and advice, you, and this whole forum so far really, have been tremendously helpful!

Ah, no problem ^_^ And yeah, in my limited experience 2C seems easily the best anti-air, since I don't think her 623x is air unblockable but I believe 2C is, and 2C seems to have pretty good upper body invulnerability, and it seems fairly easy to combo out of on hit. Only thing I might consider is Airk's suggestion to try 623B if they're way over head since on characters who have an air move that comes down quickly some times I get tricked into doing 2C to early and they move over the attack and hit me from behind during the wiff recovery but it sounds like 623B would help prevent that.

First off, thank you very much everyone for your thoughts, they are all much appreciated! Very interesting. Does it have better projectile invincibility then the B version? Should I be using this move as my way of getting in on projectile spam happy zoner character? In any case thank you very much for all that advice. So would it be fair to say as a beginner I should just ignore this move all together? Also, in scenarios where you use it for the invincibility, wouldn't it be better to use the 236236C super, or is this assuming they're at a range where that won't connect? In any case thank you very much for your thoughts on the supers. Does it have more invincible frames, more damage, or leave me in a better state on trade then her actual DP, 623A? I'm assuming you mean using it as a get off me move since you mention the better choice being a Counter Assualt if I have the meter but would you suggest it as an anti-air, or 2C still superior? Or compared to 623B? Interesting, as mentioned, I'm pretty new to BB as well as tsubaki, so I don't have much experience for or against the 236x moves, but the only one I really found to be relatively safe to throw out randomly was the D version. I don't have distances down yet, and the fact the moves pushes you right up next to them does seem to usually put you in your opponents jab range, and many jabs lead to much longer, much larger damage combos, thus after a few of those I've just sort of stopped using 236x moves outside of the rare D version on the assumption that until I played more and got a better feel the right distances in practice mode that these were moves I should just stay away from, but if they truly are as safe as you say its possible I just go got trying to jab on block when I should have just been blocking, and as such I'm definitely going to have to put them back into my footsie/spacing game again. Certainly not easily, I didn't play BB competitively in any version prior to 1.3 (I purchased both BB:CT and BB:CS on release, but only really played story mode as the game felt too complicated to play against real people) so I can't speak on what sort of projectile invulnerability it used to have, but this has been the move I've been using when dealing with projectile characters because, in my limited practice with all of her moves, it was the only one that seemed to have any potential at all for helping punish or at least close the gap on people zoning me with projectiles. If she's got a better move for getting in on or punishing projectile zoning I'm all for hearing it (214D perhaps), and if she has none at all that are worth using and I just need to try to walk forward toward them and block or whatever, so be it too, better to know then to continue to handicap myself trying to make a move work for a purpose its not capable of working for. Interesting, was not aware these moves had better range, is there any reason to ever use anything besides 22C or 22D? Very interesting, good to know, thank you. Wow, also VERY interesting and good to know. Though I'd kind of given up on using 623x as a get off me move anyway, its good to know that the D version is basically a waste and if I do feel inclined to try to use it I should stick with the A version. That's actually what I've been doing now, gave up on using it as a get off me move, now when I'm getting combo'd I just hold back and A+B (mash it if I'm in the air to try to tech as soon as possible) to get up a barrier guard in the event they drop their combo. Good to know I've made the right choice though as I have a friend whose been a long time BB player (kind of the one who got me to finally try to play it competitively recently) who seemed to advocate mashing out of combos, but who has never mained Tsubaki. Okay, good to know. Okay, so C super off 6C in the corner, gotcha, other wise only use it like I've been using it, as a get off me tool against aggressive close range fighters, and pretty much never use the D version. All good tips to know. Thank you very much again!

As some one both relatively new to BB and to Tsubaki, I'm finding myself unclear on when to actually use specials outside of combos. I tend to spend most of the match blocking, charging, doing 5B if their grounded, or doing 2C if their airborne. If I land a 5B or 2C I go into a combo which usually involves specials in it some where, if a 5B is blocked I move into a mix up block string, and if I eventually score a hit again move into a combo with specials in it. But outside of that, I'm not really sure when to use specials. 236x seems to get stuffed by quite a lot of stuff, and except at the ideal distances or via giving up a full super meter to Rapid Cancel, is often punishable on block. 214x seems about the same as 236x, except maybe worse vs ground, a little better vs air, and the b version is better at going through projectiles... however even if I go through the projectile at most distances where my opponent is using projectiles I don't move far enough torward them to actually hit them with the attack portion and thus get punished during recovery instead (usually worse then if I'd just been hit by the projectile). I have absolutely no clue what scenario to use 22x outside of combos since at any range where I could use it 5B seems the better choice. 623x seems like an inferior anti-air to 2c, the B and C versions seem pretty much useless, the A version some times trades if I mash it out and they drop a combo, but some times it gets stuff too so the only real version of 623 I find worth the trouble is the D version do to its invincibility, and even then, trying to mash it out can get you punished if they just stop and block, or worse yet, 236236D comes out instead, gets stuffed, and I'm down a full super meter, so overall I've found it not worth the trouble either. Like 22x, I have no clue how to use j.236x outside of combos. Finally j.214x seems like it could be useful, yet not really sure when to use this. When I approach a grounded opponent from the air I generally find air dashing into j.CC to be superior, but I also try to stay out of the air if I can at all help it and prefer to approach from the ground. TL:DR Which specials, if any, should I be using outside of combos, and in what situations should I be using them? Bonus Question: Should I ever be comboing into my attacking super? I notice that none of the beginner combos you guys have listed seem to end in Tsubaki's 236236 super, so I tend to only use the C version as a Get The Heck Off Me move, and I don't really know when to use the D version. -Thanks in advance!