Star-Demon

So our tourneys are no better than Casuals? Gotchya. If you're trusting what other people are telling you, you are being spoonfed and don't deserve to win because you didn't do anything yourself. Sound familiar? Sounds familiar to me.

I want to play TD.

If you were right, no one would say a damn thing about Triforce or Finance Fraud, even if everything about Triforce was 100% true. Fact that are in front of us: - Information key to winning - if you want to compete you must keep as much of it to yourself or give out bad information. - Kokonoe is paid DLC and it shows fairly easily that not as many people have her - this is sufficient to showing there's haves and have-nots in this situation - Players insist she can be figured out and we need to do it - they do not intend to volunteer it because doing so hurts both them and us. So yeah, what I say stands. In real life we have regulations. In Videogame communities we may need the same. We're in a situation where we have ot choose whether ot OMGSPOONFEED people or tell them to EAD. This thread has stayed open sufficiently long where I think we should be at least trying to be finding middle ground, and I have no faith we will. The thread will be locked or deleted, and either we'll made a decision, leave it as is, and life will go on.

You know, I don't believe that anymore. Why is that? You have zero reason to do anything but tell everyone to go EAD and go figure it out and do better for their own good, but yours as well. You tell people to GIT GUD, since they need to anyways, and you keep the info to yourself so you can compete and win. Anything else is irrational....unless you got some good reasons for sharing? I'd love to hear it! Part of the argument for not banning her is America sucks and needs to get better. Why would you share/spoonfeed america like that? We've already established that spoonfeeding players is wrong and hurts us err...somehow! Lol! Yes, I think it represents two problems we have right now: one we had before and one that happened after kokonoe was released. That's just my opinion, though. Hence the need for building consensus.

We only read things that we can argue about or shit on. There's too many posts to get information or read up on! WELP - February release in japan arcades! No Baiken: Instant shit game. I'm so sad. Is there anyone I can play in this game, yet? Sol? UInnngh...eww...Sol... No Jam? ROBO=JAM? Come on! Fine...Sol it is...Better start working on AC+ Sol... Maybe Baiken will be 800Y and be absolutely retarded. That'd be great.

Hah! Everyone forgets about the MC, I guess. I think Hyde is a good character. I'd put him at High b or low A, which I'll do right now.

Back in my day, when I was banned I stayed banned until I was unbanned. Anyways, Here's what I think of various arguments so far: Matchup numbers/normals conparisons are so silly and irrelevant to the actual problem that has yet to be agreed upon. The question is if we should ban her yet we've failed to establish any criteria for consideration. Instead, the thread has gone in circles talking about so many details that it forgot what it was trying to do and accomplish. I agree mostly with BK with the proviso that we actively work to understand her as a community. I don't think anyone is actually doing their best to deliver good information/ understanding to others especially in light of the fact you have to buy Kokonoe in order to get any practice against her. Certainly, competitive players will absolutely not share information about kokonoe with others - to me this represents an information disparity in our own community. This isn't considered fair in the real world of money and it shouldn't be considered fair in the world of Sport. This simple fact establishes cause for concern in the competitive side of the game. So anyways - I'll again ask to keep the thread on track: What are the criteria for banning a character? What do we hope to accomplish by banning a character? After we establish those we can argue about if it would work or not. Alternatively, we can discuss ways players can improve and how this community can solve the big problem (kokonoe/noel top 8)(, but I have my doubts we can actually come up with anything actionable. We really do like to stew in our own shit when it comes to this sort of thing.

What the hell is S, S-, and A supposed to mean in this chart? lol Merkava is pretty strong considering how early he was figured out and how easy it is to actually just do things and they work for him. I think this makes him more like Noel than Arakune, though, if you know what I mean. Everything works. It just works and that's really nice with him. His movement is so key, and when that doesn't work hit buttons or mash super. Vatista being so top doesn't make as much sense in this version, even though some of her new stuff can be scary. I'd put her in A. Yuzuriha, when played correctly, deserves a high spot, but when I think of how difficult and limited she can be in actual matches to make her game work for her, I can't score her high because no one gets the chance to get used to the player in japan. Most Yuzuriha's I've watched are mostly nothing but nonsense with like two combos. She doesn't even get a solid KD off combo anymore! You combo with her and they air tech. I haven't seen any Yuzurihas develop any really good air tech shenanigans. Carmine is ridiculously good. If he has weaknesses that betray the matches we've been watching where he dominates the entire tourney like everyone were babies, please explain that to me so I know. Carmine is hella stupid right now. Here, lemme fix this a little bit: Star-Demon tier list from Dustloop Jan 18th, 2014: S: Carmine, Gordeau. A: Merkava, Hilda, Linne, Yuzuriha, Vatista, Hyde, Eltnum. B: Waldstien, Orie C: Atatsuki, Chaos (these two need more playing. I have a hard time believing Akatsuki is not good) Can someone tell me which of the tourneys abelcru uploads are the best in Japan? I'd go back over those since I'm tired of tourneys where people are new to the game.

Wow. Well, Keep it up. I'm sure that's not the only surprise I'm in for.

I really like C2K's combo options - Playing her yesterday revealed that she can probably combo off all sorts of stuff, even if it's just to a super. Hermes sadly is SOL. Doesn't even have the corner carry Celia 2K does. I still have no clue how blocking is so disadvantageous when the dashing is so strict. I wish I had frame data to compare characters. Cerberus and Rui are just so LOL.

You are making an argument based on asking for more empirical proof that she needs to be banned but want to defer to a goddamned matchup chart to do that? Stop pls. You also ignored that Eshi was pretty much saying that Japan already hates this right along with us at several levels of play - Ban or no ban, this is most certainly a fine time to discuss banning her. Let me help: What do we expect to accomplish with banning her? Do we really think we can accomplish this for real? What do we expect to accomplish by not banning her? Do we really think we can accomplish this for real? What proof do we require to ban a character?

I brought someone over today to play offline. It was mashy, scrubby, and oh man how do I play this? Like, I mean seriously - How do I play this game? Like - blocking and punishing Cerberus? Rui? How? When? Nothing makes sense right now. EDIT: Today's session highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMZnvBkjLKo

Shoutouts to all of us that got our asses beat by Jiyuna Kokonoe/Ragna last week! #BANRAGNA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM1-rGVrI48

Forget delay 2C > DP - no clue what the timing is or how it works.

We banned Macros over paranoia and prognostication. If we ban, Kokonoe, it would be for more than that, I'm sure.