Ryu
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Everything posted by Ryu
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Some really good Replays here. Its 6 of them against various chars:
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Its up now. Named it G.G.G.A.S.S. (Guilty Gear Gamers Against Stupid Spammers)
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Thats a good Idea. Theres a bunch of moves I want to know how to punish. Think I might make one!
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Because Im lazy Im going to agree with you. If you take Beginners and make a tier list based on them Potemkin and Slayer are S rank. That kind of tier list is worthless though. Doing it the correct way reduces the margin of error.
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Max potential thats realistic. And, oh, I dont know, use the best players for your data maybe. Edit: This was most likely going to be my next post so Ill go ahead and say it. "How come the tier list doent account for skill level? Whats Max potential thats realistic blah blah blah." Ok lets say you took all the I-no players and wanted to find their matchups. Well you dont want to use just one person for all your data. You will skew the bell curve. For example, if you only used Koichi to find all I-no's matchups you wouldnt find I-no's matchups/teir, you'd find Koichi's I-no matchup/tier. Since Koichi is really really good he make I-no look like S rank because he's at the tip of the bell curve. To get rid of that you want to take the average of all the top I-no players. Then you have, at top level play this is what I-no's matchups are regardless of skill.
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^^Not every character can be high tier. Nope. The tier list is made based on the assumption that every character is played to its max potential thats realistic. Thats just a example. Just saying not everyone plays their best all the time. The names dont matter
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Thats not enough matches. If low tier were actually winning more than High tier wouldnt they be high tier. :S ...YES... 6/23 for high tier character if theres one person per character. Its only a 6% difference. For a 32 man tournment. .6 *.6 *.6 *.6*.6 = .07776 .4 *.4 *.4 *.4*.4 = .01024 Edit: left off a number. Was thinking 16 man when I said 32. Tier list doesnt account for player's performance. and this Humans do not always play at their best. Shoots worst day could be on the same day as Lime Key's best. So no it isnt an exact science
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No they dont. Teyah, already explained this when he was talking about how Ogawa's eddie only needed to get past the first round to hit the % mark required for the tier list. You just dont understand what we are saying because you dont understand statistics. And if you want to get really particular about the % ratio on the match ups I'd have to explain using high level algebra/calculus. Really when someone says a matchup is 6:4. that particular matchup only approaches that raito over a great many number of matches (thousands) but never actually reaches it. If you were to graph it, it would look like a asymptote. That explains some of the variance that your seeing or as you say "low tier winning more than they should"
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IDK either. Yea it does come down to skill in the end but with higher tier characters its possible to win with less of it. I'm sure that plenty of Jonnhy players have more skilled than some people who play other characters. That doesnt change the fact that he still sucks. Just look to the Tougeki thread for proof.
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^^Yea. I think people just got confused because of skill levels. If both players are on the same skill level a 7:3 match up looks like a 6:4 matchup. (I'm lazy so I didnt type the math out. >_>) So as you can see the better the player the more of an advantage they have.
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Ok. Some character has to be D rank. It doesnt matter who. Who ever rises is no longer low tier and who falls is no longer high tier. Changing the list doesnt explain anything. Other than making the current tier list wrong I dont see what point your trying to make. Regardless of character Someone is going to be S and someone is going to be D. And I know you cant be saying S and E rank can change on the fly.
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Surly this also would mean low tier characters are not being exploited because the method hasnt been found yet or they can not be exploited. E rank cant be exploited to the extent of an S rank. Why? Really I dont see where your coming from. So the current tier list is wrong? If a characters tier changes from B to S that means the character wasnt a B rank to begin with. He/she just had unknown growth potential. You are exactly correct. This is why Low tier characters are able to win over high tier characters. Skill is a outside factor that increases every players chance of winning.
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You said that backwards. For the current tier list Eddie and test tube are being exploited the most. That would mean the characters at the top are creating the margin of error. That wouldnt explain why low tier are winning by your theory. May(Efute) is higher than Bridget and Anji.
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IDK how GG's tier list is made, but the most mathematically sound way to make one would be: take all the good GG players, (or a very big portion of them) have them play a large number of matches, and the average win/loss ratio would put every character in their correct tier position. I assume when they said such and such character has a 6/4 match up this is what they have done? That aside there are times when new strategies are found for X character which could change match ups and affect the tier list. These become more and more rare as time progresses. In short, potential growth per character decreases over time thus we are left with a more accurate tier list than we started with. So I dont see why it wouldnt be possible to determine whos the best character
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Its the truth man. This agrument is pointless. That reminds me. There are different levels of perfect. So Ogawa A would still win assuming both Potemkin and Eddie become more near perfect at the same ratio.
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If you agree with the tier list you agree that Eddie and Testament are the strongest, therefore they have the advantage.
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Oh, thats easy then. In the Olympics does .01 of a second matter? Well that puts a end to that conversation. Translation for stupid people who try to argue: Any advantage you can get always matters.
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Are people really arguing that tiers' dont exist? That's impossible. Tier exist in every game. If it didnt in this game every matchup would be 5:5. That scenario is the perfect game that every developer is trying to develop. Its impossible to reach or make. The only way to have a completely even match is to have a mirror match - because the characters are exactly the same. As for low tier characters winning over higher ones - players who use low tier characters have to play at a higher level in order to win. Tier represent how easy it is to win with a character. If someone thinks its just as easy to win with Eddie as it is I-no then they're a retard.
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yea its on this page http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2732&page=22 Its epic man.
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ROFL. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. I would have soft reset-ed too! OMG this is the SECOND funniest replay I've ever seen. The first was when I did 49 clashes in one round with a chipp player. (edit) Frees' post is now magically below mine.
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Man replay section been pretty dead. =/ I'll liven it up. Here is I-no vs Robo Ky, Millia, Slayer, Faust, and I-no. On the Slayer match I hit a HUGE combo. My best combo I've ever done with I-no against a real opponent.
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Sorry. I do that sometimes when no one is on. I dont know your name online. Just deny me.
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post reply, click manage attachments, and upload. Make sure the file is saved as a zip file. (not rar.)
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Some more replay greatness. The matches are I-no vs AN, VE, TE, FA, ED, and Ky.
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some more I-no vs baiken matches. This time the matches were all about zoning (I guess thats what its called hell idk) whats the match up for I-no vs baiken? After playing that match my guess would be 6/4 in Baikens favor. Or it might just be that I suck at zoning. Real men fight head on! (no offense jack thats just my motto lol)