zaeris

You are correct although I feel jump out won't be easy probably will test and see if it's character specific

As kiba says use frame trap against masher Her Gatling option provide a few simple one My route while it is usually on the fly it something like. 5a x2 5b basic frame trap and reset for people who just mash, plus on hit it can reset into a 5 b starter 5c > 6c catches 4 frame start up and jumps or so.. Can't remember the exact frames it catches 5b> 3c for true masher you can score a fatal counter this way lol, start with 5b 6a if it's mashed on frame one change to 5b 3c. You can also jump cancel off 5b and go into a simple fall jc I guess in generally if you know what your opponent is thinking apply different strategys

I'm liking 6a changes, now I don't have the worry about people jumping out of my 6a set up, probably annoys me that a 6a air unblock able was tech-able. And yay for new fireball command, no more block counter poke 5b into fireball lol a least I can feel I have earn my 3k damage + from every 5b ch The rest of the change I can live with

In my honest opinion her combo just take time getting use to, the hard one anyway. I believe the time I have spent in training mod is 2-3 hr each day for a week to getting it consistent and then another 1 week of actually in game vs mode against friends, for consistently in combat. I think in the end you can weight up the short term gain vs the full term. Overall I do enjoy playing a more flashy tsubaki but it does give me an overall advantage sub as heat gain, damage and better corner carry, just don't mind losing a few games or so just be more consistent. it does depend on your aim, well I do play competitively at my local scene and tourney run for a few month Anyway my only problem is tsubaki corner 623c delay j214a combo which is the most inconsistent since I can get it training mode but in matches it always fail me lol

From my understanding the following gatling allows for X> 623C > j214D > 6C >CT pattern Where X can = 5CC, 5BB, J.CC, j.C>5CC, 6BB, 5B5CC, 2CC (ground hit), 3CC (FC), 2BB> 5C, anything else i'm forgetting. However its always been an issue with spacing from corner to get it to connect, since most often doing frames traps is the most practical way to land the big starters. EDIT: wondering if its optimal to add this 1 stock + 25% 6CC> 623C> J214D> land CT> 5C> 2CC> 236C> 5C> 2C> 236B> 214B> 22B DMG 4688, Needs No CH compare to what we already know CH 6C > CT > 5CC > 623C > Delay j.214A(w) > 5C > 2CC > 236C > (5A) > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B [4854 (4920) DM] requires 25% 6C> TK214C> 623C> delay J214A> 5C> 2CC> 236C> 5C> 2C> 236B> 214B> 22B DMG 3849 wondering whats the better option, does someone have a more optimal 6C starter using 1 stock and 25%? EDIT 2 guess this does slightly more 6C> 623C> J214D> land 6BB> CT> 5C> 2CC> 236C> 5A> 5C> 2C> 236B> 214B> 22B DMG 4772, guess it can be use to catch jump start up frames. ( havent managed to connect using 5C only, maybe someone will have better luck)

I guess that solve my issue with 6C like Starter, since you can apply the same concept to 5b CH > 6C also, for corner. It feels like CS2 tsubaki almost with a tensionless and meterless corner combo that does large. 5B CH > 6C > TKj,214c > 623C > Delay j.214A > 5C > 2CC > 236C > (5A) > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B DMG 3624/3683 HG 25/26

Thanks for replying Kiba, I always found 236C> delay j.214A to be rather difficult to time correctly in matches lol, I'm just curious but did anyone notice how 236A(w) > 214D seems to be funky with its tracking ability as it would carry its HB invul frames. Other than that I notice that both air and forward-ground corner throw can follow the same combo path, so something like corner air throw > land CT> 6CC> TK j.236D>j.214A>236C>214B>22B, I think it is worth the 2 stock and heat for damage and resource, otherwise throw cancel into mugen is another good choice.

guess I did try looking to see if someone posted this already. 2C corner" AA 2CC>J.214D>6C>CT>5C>2CC>236C>(5A).5C>2C>236B>214B>22B [DG4238/HG 25 REQUIRE 1 STOCK, 25HEAT]

for me anyway, you can use Fb spears in D bite combo extender to end your combo into 2hs set up. e.g. 2k 5hs -> 421 -> D bite -> stagger 2k 5hs ]s[ 421D -> dash 2hs, of course you can try linking releasr pike into IAD jp j2s JHS ^^, why do this? to set up a 2hs kd in corner into D/HS fish meaty since in regular okizeme, your summons will be on cool down and thus you must use ice spike. Other uses as seen by kazuki is to set up k fish safely using 421 s and 421 D together. Bubble auto pop? well its just additional threat just having it on the screen makes your opponent more cautions.

I'm just curious, Having repeat input, does that mean I can buffer frc-> special cancel on frame 1-2 instantly or does it only works for special, then in that circumstance it wouldn't affect frc points since you will still need to time the frc.

well 2d delay special cancel via jump cancel is an added layer or technique at least we have that option, thanks for reminding me. Although I do like having access to 2d-> air pike (421s) again it feels really good, furthermore, 2d-> 421s is actually meaty vs some character e.g slayer. The problem with K fish is it has no range hence at mid screen it is only viable with throws or ice spike frc set up, however does give you access to your better mix up. I've spent a lot of time playing with fuzzy guard but in general it will be land k fish 3 hit -> falling j.hs-> raising j.p. With Ac+r it does feeling like I'm learning dizzy over again but properly given her better set ups and mix up. Another thing I notice watching kazuki is her Ad/IAD back j,hs mix up. It is something like throw-> dash KD fish jump forward S bubble now the mix up is after S bubble to go into IAD jhs-> D fish stagger, what I didn't know is that you can FD to correct your air position so you can AD forward and J.hs the other side, because I've always wonder how people do the double AD forward into j.hs from mid-screen in reload. More things to learn~~ P.S anyone have some hidden dizzy technique they want to share.

Another fuzzy guard set up using a combination of 2hs KD on character specific on the list, and its not jump-able at any point. Characters used on Millia/Slayer 2hs kd (c.S 5.hs 2hs corner) => HD fish -> tk K bubble -> AD -> lazer fish-> j.p j.p j.hs -> land -> rising j.p (fuzzy guard) -> D bite/k bubble pop -> land -> 421 -> (bubble loop/ 6hs/f.s ender). this one uses the HD fish for fuzzy-> I havent tested it on ice spike kd, setting with having the computer on jump state. usually with all KD set up the opponent is unlikely to jump on wake up and will block a lazer fish however just having that option of a solid mix up does help. Note -> j.p J.hs doesn't combo hence the damage will reset even if you combo before hand leaving the fuzzy into D bite being the start of a new combo (or j.hs landing). A good return I would say. EDIT: With regards to KD fish, you can always reset your okizeme with a throw (e.g HK fish-> 2k-> lazer-> throw)-> and just run up and set KD fish without having to worry about timing, while you do lose out on extra throw damage, it does set it up easily.

well it is easier using h fish but the damage can be lack luster compare to anything using the d fish ender set up. however it is preference but the D fish helps with easier fuzzy guard. my favourite will be mid screen kd fish since it allows for iad back cross over jhs mix up, a better starter and mix up. in general kd fish does require more precision probably one of the challenges.

Another thing I was testing was the old AC corner 6p-> wall bounce into bubble loop if people remember, this time seeing if you can do it from a longer combo into D fish then into 6P ender for slight more damage but no KD ^^. e.g. dash 214K~D > 5K > (K Fish bite) > forward jump > falling j.H > ... ... > jump > rising j.P > (D Fish bite 'stagger') > land> dash 6P> 421> 9j.hs> 421]s[> j.214k/s> j.k> bubble pop> land> j.s j.d/j.hs. testing results~ Characters where you can use 6p (e.g. 2k>6p/c.s>6p) as starters and extension to D fish stagger (D fish stagger > dash 6p) ender: Bridget, Chipp, Faust, May, Millia, Potenkim, Testament, Zappa and Kiliff characters where you can use 6p as starters but not as combo ender extension. Baiken, Jam, Justice

ic, I've already gone through most of them I will let people judge for themselves later but I do recommend these one your fuzzy guard set up will be your best friend on kd since its the best mix up we have as dizzy and new D dish adds ton of damage and stagger which leads to 200~ damage on the cast into KD. In general KD fish mid screen and corner is the most solid with KK fish in corner being another solid and easy set up for lesser damage. issue with kd fish is being too close can lead to people to use DP or potenkim buster on you if you didn't have perfect timing with dash kd fkish on ice spike kd. All throws give you the perfect set up for KD fish if you choose not to do a follow up throw combo (which I recommend, unless you you want to use HD or dash kd) dash 214K~D > forward jump > (K Fish bite) > falling j.2S > falling j.H > ... ... > jump > rising j.P > (D Fish bite 'stagger') > falling j.H > land > c.S > A variant of the 3rd okizeme in case you want to achieve the same outcome but using it slightly different so your opponent doesn't remember its the same set up. Fuzzy guard doesnt work on zappa, kilff, may, baiken,

my test as stated earlier lol Combo trying to achieve 2hs kd -> fish D/HS -> IAD > S bubble> D bite (stagger)> land 2hs> air pike hold > bubble/HS beam hit -> wall stick > IAD j.hs> ]s[ > K/S bubble pop> land jump j.k j.s j.d. for one your opponent is expecting a cross over iad set up, in general on characters that can jump the set up will be caught by a lazer or d bite on air hit, what you want is a ground hit that catches jump start up frames or being very meaty. characters that works with HS/D fish after 2hs anji, axl, dizzy, i-no, jam, justice, may, slayer, testament characters where HS doesnt work but D fish can (D fish as a lesser start up by 3 frames or something) faust, baiken, kliff, millia, characters where 2hs kd can be jump ( but will still be air hit or air blocked) by HS and D fish: eddie, johnny, ky, order sol, potenkim, sol, venom and zappa. unique character that has a very late wake up (HS fish works without delay, D fish needs Delay special cancel) Chipp and ABA character excluded due to special wake up (delay wake up) property: Robo-ky and bridget ^^.

since there hasn't been much discussion of dizzy lately, I feel that AC+R dizzy is the same on neutral excluding here far ice spike which changes certainly zoning match up for better e.g venom, zappa, Eddie ectera. Her KD in AC+R is probably the because game changer with fish been several times stronger given her solid mix up with little to no holes, a perfect block string almost, new fuzzy guard and IAD backwards jhs into D fish. Anyway after testing. 2D KD is not a meaty and can be jump out, which 2hs KD is based on character weight + wake up + jump frames, so it not something you can read off from data, atm it works on most of the female characters. I'm sure some people already know but its helpful for me at least to know which match up and set ups I need to know ^^,

I was hoping for MOD to make a AC+R general thread, since its not really a change lol. Okay i will migrate.

think im missing something when I put it into training mode. the wake up data + jump frames don't seem to add up for me. My experiement is 2hs KD -> HS fish or D fish, on some character it would be a complete meaty where jumping out is impossible. guess I will post trial and error list instead, and get people to confirm yes or no. setting computer on jump state, and KD with c.s>5hs>2hs, unless there strange timing with setting computer on jump state being different.

Anyone know where I can find AC+R frame data, trying to figure out where 2hs KD-> HS/D fish is meaty vs which character.

i think a good way to test is to put the cpu in crouch block and do a ice spike frx into iad j2s since that will usually needs to be perfect and will have the lowest iad

I'm not sure about others but my preference has always been double HH fish into dash jump j.s if they jump and it hits confirm into j.p j.s double jump j.s j.d/j.hs. If it's block instead I go for j.s .jp AD j2d on ground. Of course that is me expecting people to jump from oki from full screen and thats usually the case. However if I get someone who doesn't jump and wake up I would go for double AD land and 2k.

I just want to know if dizzy ice spike still has the 85% force proration, or it is reload style with ice spike frc combo for big damage again.

master in training mode or in real matches against players? there's a big difference ^^, I-no Chemical love FRC depending on if you can do JI during combo or TK cancel your HCL... in the end, no one can give you an answer, try posting some matches instead.

In my opinoin, bubble loop is not practical and if you ever pull it off in tourny it won't happen often, until AC+R comes out, it will be one of those rare thing happen every 100 games and even if it does happen you will drop it half way . Ice spike frc is useful but not a must. Small things you need is good neutral, know your mix up and the range of your pokes and read this guide: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?3473-AC-Strategy-Guide for the short answer