Valas Phoenix

Ciao, welcome

From that route you can't do much, generally after the JK wallsplat you have to watch where the opponent is and add or not add 5cS if he's too low for you to get 5HS>iad jK>jS>jK. So it depends, I suggest you practice with these common routes http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD/Sin_Kiske/Combos It's under Airdash Loops. Once you get them down and you're confident enough to pull x2 or x3 reps you can think to implement the jK>jS>jK to other combos to squeeze more damage ecc ecc, when it's ok to do it or not depends on the situation, I wouldn't try more than 2 rep after a combo into high wallsplat though, if your combo is too long you risk to get them tech in the air while you're doing 214HS, that's something you want to avoid ^^

This should be a Video talk/discussion, to discuss match ups click here on the matchup directory

So, as a Sin player @drzero7 You can 6P to avoid or punish (if close enough) her Chemical Love, 2D to get under or simply 1FD Beak Driver can kill notes, can be used to pressure her if you cancel it with hshshshshs or bullbash (moderately and watch out from BS), can be also used to punish her while she's going to cast a note and do a beak driver CH combo If you want a faster option since you find 6P too slow to AA her (depending on the situation 6P might still be your best option) use your DP, if blocked be prepared to hop/cancel it into something else, or BS, again, be sure that your opponent is going to hit high or low. I-no has a weird hurtbox so some things you normally do on Sol/Sin/Slayer/random opponent don't work or work differently, that's the annoying thing

R.T.L. combo can be done in air, (midscreen). on a jumping opponent JS>JK>jc>JS>J6HS>R.T.L>2HS(whiff)>6HS>2P>5S>5HS(1hit)>236K>236HS it can also be done from 6P>5S>5HS(1hit)>6HS>JS ecc From Bullbash on a jumping opponent, 214S>214K>JK>R.T.L.>2HS(whiff)>6HS ecc

Could you kindly record it? I'd like to learn your version with the leap but without a video reference for me it's kinda hard to imagine how it works exactly (works only on males chars right? or the leap gets you closer than the run?)

I didn't even got a chance to read your thoughts, I was editing my post ^^"

V.D. set up into throw (1Frame window) it works on all the males characters in the game Corner 5D>6>5S>5HS>236[HS]>236[HS]>2366[HS]>236[HS]>66>6HS on certain char it works easier but that's char specific (easier means you actually don't have to do a dashing beak driver to set up correctly the V.D.) here is the video I took as reference, it shows how it works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBo3mpaH-yQ my easier universal (male) version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCVjnNP9So4 dashless but char specific version (leo, bedman, venom, pot, faust) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOh0VefTbdg alternative version of the previous dashless set up (slayer, ky, zato, faust, venom) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cASAYhKHYoo Basically if you don't have a meterless DP it's unblockable, it can be handy in specific situations and on specific characters. Certain characters can use their DP to avoid it (1F window before getting hit by V.D) and slayer has that backdash that can help him to avoid the set up partially (he still get hit as soon as his backdash ends by the last hit of V.D.), but it's something one has to know really well to avoid, and if you mix it up with the other set ups (rising jHS, far 2D, ecc ecc) I'm sure it's hard as hell to tell the difference and someone might try to backdash a legit V.D. set up or DP it. If an opponent try to jump it he gets hit 1 frame later by 6HS. Why using this set up instead of the other well known high low? Let's guess we get the chance to set up a ball like this but we are running low on calories, we don't want to eat from far away since we're dropping our pressing, we don't want to do the regular V.D. since it's a "50/50" it might get blocked and you'll have to do what, attack while running low on cals? Nope, thank god you have this set up that grants you at least a knockdown, at best a corner combo from 6HS>DP>meterless corner stuff. It's a low risk low reward option, while the regular set up is a higher risk and higher reward option. Both are fine, but depending on the situation one might prefere one over the other. I repeat, those guys who have dps and knows this set up is coming can avoid it completely, but those who can't DP, don't have enough tension to have a Super Reversal or don't expect that blocking low/high isn't the right option gets throwed.

A-cho 3on3 15-09-22 https://youtu.be/HXFlTiUfvLU?t=2537 DC(Sin) vs Tomo(Leo)

GG XrD R Mikado freeplay 9/12 - 9/15 (first part) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8NfIx4O38c Fino(VE) vs Hiroki(SI) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8NfIx4O38c&feature=youtu.be&t=195 Fino(VE) vs Hiroki(SI) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8NfIx4O38c&feature=youtu.be&t=478 Hiroki(SI) vs Chappu(CH) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8NfIx4O38c&feature=youtu.be&t=610Hiroki(SI) vs Roi(SO) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8NfIx4O38c&feature=youtu.be&t=914 Hiroki(SI) vs Chappu(CH) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8NfIx4O38c&feature=youtu.be&t=1169 Hiroki(SI) vs Nyowa(JC) @Zephyrion22 I don't think the venom in this link is Fino https://youtu.be/U4U_tgtw4Qc?t=180

I didn't even knew I could use the burst that way 'till yesterday ^^" are there any other special moves that can be punished using a burst?

After watching VR-Raiden's Burst Grand Viper Tutorial I've tried something myself and... If the burst is timed correctly Sin can punishes Sol's grand viper with 2HS, even gaining 50 tension and getting a VD oki 2 Examples I've recorded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meKtFKJRmnE as always sorry for the video quality ^^" I think it can be helpful as a deterrent, if you manage to do this consistently (expecially the one that ends in the VD set up)

My neutral depends obv on the match up, but usually TK Beak Driver it's good enough to pin down jumping opponent and it's fast. Elk Hunt is good enough to approach an opponent and it can be used also for faking a low, for example using Elk Hunt YRC JD>or 2D. Beak Driver is also really good, it pins down your opponent and leads to big combos if you're good enough to use it properly on CH. Bullbash is fine but since it's really slow I think it comes handy to fish some Blitz Shield and on aerial wake ups, otherwise it's not something I would use much in neutral. The hop can be used in smart ways in some MU, for example against Axl I use it often on Sickle Flash to lure a Melody Chain, Hop K backdash on the Melody Chain, then Hop K>6>J6HS to catch them. 2S and 5fS are also good normals, and also the AA since it has a long range and head invulnerability, for example against I-no's chemical love Sin can use 6P invulnerability to avoid the chemical completely. Eating YRC is another thing I do often against rushdown characters, it's a good way to get them into the range of your normals pokes On their wake up/when I get a knockdown JD to punish wake up throws or just using it as a overhead and YRC on wake up BS to get a CH combo, meaty 2D/236K, Bullbash if I forced an early ground tech and the opponent isn't someone with a fast wake up (Chipp), going into their throw range and then backdash>yrc>5D, backdash to bait some reversals, using the hop>jump to do fake Jump in to bait reversals or hop>2K/late airdash/fuzzy stuff if I used the Jump Install, jumping/double jumping to bait some AA, Jumping>2K, Jumping>late airdash>JK>JS, 2HS meaty to get either a combo or a guessing situation with JD/2D, IAD jHS CH RC if there is enough space behind them in the corner to get a cross up (IAD>jHSCH>RC>J6HS>2HS ecc).

The Wiki is kinda overwhelming for beginners, I'd do a separate chapter with 10 combos they must learn in order to play the character at a beginner/easy level, for example: 3 midscreen BNB combos : one of them from CH (236KCH for example since it's quite common), one of them with a ground ender and one of them with an air ender 3 corner BNB combo with different usage of tension and food, 6000 Cal max, at least an air ender 2 5D> combo, (midscreen 8 and corner 6) 1 corner throw RC combo 1 heavy damaging combo that works anywhere on the screen starter 2HS(2hit)>5HS(1hit) ecc It should be already ordered by steps (first learn to combo midscreen, then in the corner, then use 5D, then using a throw, then using an optimal starter), but honestly this should be more than enough to "pick him" and play.

Same for me, goodbye emoticons ^^"

That is my channel ^^

Actually we all started with the 4gamer basic combos, a bnb combo day 2 and pachi vs elphet videos. Now we can all have access to a huge amount of infos and tutorials, video, matches. Maybe a thread that collect thoughts on food bar management would be helpful since that part is quite difficult to control well at the beginning, but again we can already find everything in the threads, one has only to search.

I'm pretty sure I haven't told you to tweak your combo like that ^^" I just wrote a sample of what I'd do (x2 rep) after stating that your 236HS leaves too far for a meaty stuff. If anything I'd use your combo for a low cal 50% tension building, not for VD set ups, but as I said before, do things the way you like, I'm not going to discuss further on this matter. Posting a corner combo to do with Sin's food bar empty and 50 tension Corner 5D>6>236[HS]>RC>214HS>2366[HS]x5>214K>JK>5S>5HS(1hit)>236HS>214HS you can probably add more rep, it depends on how well you can buffer your dashing beak driver adding the visual reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qonyPnfTL3M Edit: Another one, start with 6000-7000 Cal available and 50% tension Corner (near the opponent) 236K>623S>214S>236[HS](hunger)>RC>214HS>2366[HS]>214K>JK>5S>5HS>(1Hit)>214P you start with a corner combo and end up without having to eat since you used only 1000 Cal after RC>Cal recovering, you can then stick to your opponent and bait things/throwing meaty 2HS or whatever having 9000 Cal to convert anything into another big damaging corner combo.

I really am missing the point :| Axl can just SJ block, J barrier block or SJ airdash out, but if you consider the rest of the cast -Zato can do BTL to pass under the VD or Fly away -Elphet can Roll under the VD in her stance -Ky can slide under -Another Sin can slide under -Sol can GV to get under the VD and screw the set up -Chipp can get out with the teleport or doing other Chipp's stuff -Faust can get out in many ways, just holding 3 direction to pass under or using his -Millia can roll under VD or double jump out/super jump dash -Bedman can teleport with his dash -Slayer doesn't have troubles of getting out from the corner, he can SJ and use J214K to get far away from the corner -I-no can SJ J236HS to get out from the corner and probably also stroke the big tree can pass under VD, I don't remember this -Pot using J41236 shouldn't have problems too but I'm not really sure since he's slow, with all that gap it should be possible though Basically except for (not sure, I haven't seen these but maybe they could also get out from the corner) Axl, May, Leo, Venom, Ramlethal that can SJ block, J block barrier or SJ airdash out, all the others shouldn't have difficulties, if they have they can do the universal things all the others can do (obv pot can't super jump airdash). That's why I don't understand why a Sin should do this instead of getting the standard VD set up. That depends on what I Do after the first VD connects, but again, if the opponent ends up dead there isn't a need to do the 3rd rep. Anyways, if that works for you good for you, I don't see the point of doing this but maybe I'm just closed minded to new stuff. However If you can record this in a match with consistency I'd love to see it =) This part is useful I didn't know this, I'll take note That's it, I didn't expect to get this kind of feedback for just saying this Next time I'll mind my own business even if something feels wrong to me.

Axl can Jump Barrier in that set up, I think the combo is too long, since your 236HS push you too far from him, try to do it a bit shorter, here is a sample how I'd do it , Since it involves JD>J214S>5HS it's char specific (tested on Sol) JD>J214S>5HS>IAD>JK>JS>JK>5HS>IAD>JK>JS>JK>5S>5HS>236HS(1hit)>VD>any mix up let's go for the run> rising jhs route rising JHS>2HS(2hit)>5HS(1hit)>6HS>623S>214S>236[HS]>214K[6]>5S>5HS(1hit)>236HS(1hit)>VD again I also recorded it if you prefer to see it directly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_idnjy0iYlo

Well they aren't really benificial, you can squeeze the damage a bit more from wallsticks if your food bar is low but it's one of the last thing you should add to your game, there are a lot of stuff that are more common and more useful (236HS loops, vd set ups, RTL combos). The only point where they really shine is in corner after JD>J214S>5HS(1hit)>IAD loop x 2-3, but that is char specific, so it isn't always available (J214S>5HS doesn't connect on certain characters, like millia if I remember well). Edit: I forgot, they also are useful if you go for the 0 cal corner combo, 2HS(3Hit)>5HS(1Hit)>6HS>JK>J>JS>JK>5HS>iad>JK>JS>JK>5HS>IAD ecc

On Axl's stance if you know he is going to wait a bit (to avoid wake up BS and things) you can run towards him, then throw 623S as soon as you see him doing something. If you're close enough Sin's reversal is big enough to hit his High/Mid/Low chain.

Well most of the combos from 1.0 works also in 1.1, leaving outside 236K>236HS>236K>236HS midscreen, all the others should work

I'm just curious, may I ask wich combos are you using?

Thank you for posting this, it gave me a bunch of ideas ^^ I might find a use for 5HS 2hit in the corner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrqGuOrE82A Edit: iad>JHS>RC>J6HS>2HS(2hit)>5HS(1hit)>6HS>623S>214S>236[HS]>2366[HS]>ecc is the most damaging route I've found in the corner with JHS RC, 270 dmg on Sol Edit 2: Lol, if you use (corner) 2HS 3 hit on block then IAD JHS>RC>same combo above you can get 303 dmg on Sol