9:02 PM

Its relationship to a throw being that in GG you can't throw if you're running or recovering from a run, but FD brake cancels your recovery and lets you throw immediately. So the input would be like 6[6], 4+KS, 6H or 4H to get a run up throw.

You should dash up, faultless brake, and throw until they start to respect it, and THEN your stagger pressure will work because they'll be trying to jump or mash out to escape the throw. Throwing is as big a part of Milia's mix up game as high/low, but most players don't exploit it enough. Down back is (for the most part) still the safety blanket of choice for most players in GG.

On block? Maybe. It has a lot of post flash start up, so in a neutral situation it seems easy to just jump or double jump to avoid it and punish accordingly. The other super is (according to JP commentary) safe on block unless the defending party uses OD Raid, and it does basically the same damage. Almost all of the Japanese Celica players use their meter exclusively for overhead RC or Cask Vuruute. The opinions on Twitter run the gamet; there aren't any solid assessments of Celica yet. Frame data for a number of things (6A, the drive overhead, Celica upper, Cask Vuluute, 6D, etc.) will go a long way in forming a solid opinion. Despite her going from S+ to D on a few Japanese tier lists in two weeks, there seem to be quite a few people doing very well with her.

The amount of invincibility on his backdash has been consistent through each version, but they limited the amount of invincibility you got from a backdash cancel in +R, and i'm not sure it was consistent from Reload to AC. I would assume it's a separate value devs manipulate based on how they feel he should be balanced. Anyway, if it's single digits like it was in +R, it's almost not worth the trouble outside of the command grab since after the time it takes you to input Mappa or the Dandy Step follow up the invuln is already over.

Have any players talked about how many invuln frames you can get from BDCs in this version?

Add Slayer 2S to the list. Regardless, her most useful reactionary anti-air is frame 1 upper body invuln, which is an advantage a lot of characters don't have in AC or Xrd. Sol 5K/2H, Faust 5K, and Slayer 2S are the anti-airs you'll see those characters go for 95% of the time, and they have no invuln at all, let alone frame one.

My bad; I hadn't read the rest of the cast. There were a couple in AC that weren't so I assumed they'd remain. Too much BB/P4 frame data recently.

I assume they did that just because KPP doesn't combo. Her grounded overheads are quick though, 18 frames for KPP, and 6K hits crouchers on frame 20 and is neutral on block. Shield Detruo not so much, but it's airborne frame 5 and +2. Also 6p being frame 1 upper body invincible is huge. My little brown girl can't be this top tier.

For anyone who hasn't seen, 4gamer gave us complete frame data for every character (sans elphelt) http://wiki.4gamer.net/ggxrd/ The numbers all look good. A couple pleasant surprises in there as well.

I think the thing about the new j. A properties is that it turns a blocked cat jump j. 2b/j. C into basically a 50/50 fuzzy with rising j. A or a low, but it seems to woork on more characters. I'm surprised people don't seem to be using 6D. I assumed it was a high since it looks like 4D, but maybe it's not?

Re: two pages ago, we would all be better off if we were to admit that for any of the more technical characters in AC (I-no, Bridget, Eddie, Baiken, etc.) you can probably count on one hand the number of people in the English speaking community who can do their real stuff in tournament play. There are like three people in this thread that could lodge a legitimate complaint about the game being less execution heavy, and none of them are the ones doing so. For literally EVERYONE ELSE (myself included) the leniency of YRC timing and the reduced importance of character weight on combo timing/route will result in an improvement in game play.

Much obliged. For the record, the damage after the throw RC with the max sukukaja extension (tentarafoo, 214214C, 5AAAA, B crescent x 2, D V slash, B crescent, D shooting star) is 3697 plus like a thousand for the throw and poison damage. It's good, but it's not 6.5k. The reason why I feel like the meter is better spent on SB moonsault is because it gives you an easy confirm off j. AB that gets like 2500, a knockdown, and is plus on block while contesting a potential 2B anti-air. The only other way to confirm off it is C V slash which is unsafe, and leaves you with really low damage follow ups (in the 1200-1500 damage range). A dash spring into SB moonsault does about a thousand more damage on average compared to the B dash spring BNB. The C sukukaja combos are all free to burst as well, and the fact that you have to spend all your meter early doesn't help in that regard. I will concede that it does seem worth it as Yosuke in the Narukami match-up to stockpile meter in many cases; the number two priority after just winning should really be to keep them from reaching awakening, otherwise the risk reward on almost everything just becomes unmanageable solely due to the damage differential. Also ggs. It's a shame we don't get to play more often. I think I must follow my heart and play Naoto.

Learn the IAD air turn j. B oki after j. 2C and the mixups off that set up, as it hits frame 1 meaty and baits his DP. Learn your 5A fatal combos; if you don't get max damage for every swift strike punish you're losing the numbers game. Do not throw Kunai if he has 50 meter, shiden issen B aftwr blocking kunai is like the easiest punish in the game. Learn your defensive option selects. See the general thread for more info. DO NOT put him into awakening without either taking his burst beforehand or setting up some very favorable situation. Cut your combo short, sacrifice the knockdown, do whatever, but if you put him in awakening because you want that extra 800 damage you're digging your own grave. As soon as he gets that extra meter and access to cross slash, most of the time he touches you you're eating 5k, most of it burst safe.

Hello friends, good news and bad news today after perusing some JP BBS posts. The bad news is Ash Rotir AKA Celica Upper AKA 236C is NOT invincible on frame 1. Current speculation seems to be frame 4 or 5. Even though it doesn't make up for it, it does retain invuln while charging. #BOO

The C bug guard crush seems really strong despite the bug flashing before it becomes active, I see a lot of people get hit by it, and if he has enough curse meter he can still get damage even with the guard crush scaling. It definitely seems like you have to work harder to get curse outside of the corner; 4 confirms instead of 3 seems to be the norm midscreen, and curse meter also seems to get consumed a lot faster in 2.0. I'll be interested to hear what Japan has to say about him in a few weeks when they've figured more stuff out.

The one that ends in sweep? You have to super jump cancel IAD after the 2C.

Trying to find more info on her mix up; a Celica player who goes by Tamai on Twitter said her standing overheads don't seem super fast but are serviceable, and confirmed that the first hit of 6A is overhead. He didn't really expand on the Minerva overhead. The youtube videos must be kind of deceptive, since 6A looks really fast on 30fps 360p stream rips. EDIT: Okay, so according to Xiei, Minami's opinion on why Celica isn't strong is a lack of strong low optioms to compliment her overheads, and if you use her drive normals, IB into reversal is guaranteed. According to USD's Celica blog, 6D has invuln, which might mitigate that somewhat, but we'll have to get some info on her low options.

I found this match up got easier the more I stayed in the air. You avoid the bulldozer that is boost j. C, and if Aigis tries to 2B you can j. 2C fatal through it pretty much on reaction (or kunai sb garu). Air to air it's pretty much even, and in orgia she can confirm for way more damage off CH j. A, so it pays to keep an eye on her meter.

Her standing overheads seem pretty fast; the player on stream confirmed the trip for like 2.5 in the corner meterless, and the backhoe looking drive overhead apparently needs to be RC'ed to get a combo if it's not charged, but they got like 3k each time. Ash Rotir can also apparently be confirmed for 2.5 on counter hit. Actual frame data is the only way to really tell, but two fast standing overheads that lead to damage, good normals, and a big DP that leads to meterless damage are pretty high value assets for any character. I'm also very interested to get some numbers on her backdash.

The moment you land after the glide j. A, do like 66~A, and the dash momentum will carry him forward into the 5A. It makes the pick up way easier, and if they blocked the overhead you're actually able to get pressure instead of almost immediately being pushed out. Also he doesn't have any real safe jumps. Neither j. 2C, nor DP leave him enough frame advantage to do a straight up jump normal with safe jump timing, so Yosuke is largely left having to play the 'are you going to DP on wake up or not' guessing game. He does have a set up after j. 2C, you do an immediate air dash, and either air turn j. B which will pass through them and make most DPs whiff, but hit them if they crouch block, and put them in blockstun if they stand block the cross up, or just airdash j. B which will leave you in front but is not a safe jump against most characters (some DPs will whiff because you'll pass through their sprite during the I frames). Some Japanese players also opt for a late forward jump air turn as a DP bait, since they'll jump over the DP, and if they didn't, they can either start attacking, or double jump/moonsault to get away from trouble. Characters with reversals in the 15+ frame class you can meaty 2A and it's safe. Unless you're near the corner, a meaty glide with cross up trajectory will not actually hit them, at least not with meaty timing. Mixing up your meaties (2A, jump normal, glide j. A, glide empty low, moonsault crossups, fake crossups with EX moonsault) goes a long way in playing the wake up game. Honestly, most of the videos I've seen of Japanese players, even the higher ranked ones (fin especially) will just walk up 5A/2A as their meaty.

Are you trying to do Hamaon/Mudoon after gunshots? You can buffer the super in the shots, like B, B, B, B, 236B, 236C for down shots into Hamaon. That was a pretty common thing among vanilla Naoto players, the gunshot super cancel window is notoriously small.

Not for nothing, as this is not a marvel discussion, but XFGC has a dead frame after where you can be thrown or counter x factored. XFGC is relatively easy to punish on reaction actually, which is why you see it less and less in competetive play. As for BB, the expansion and additions are great, but the enormous discord between arcade and console releases and all the new versions make it really difficult to get into as a player. Arcsys' recent handling of p4u and Xrd made me think they were making headway on that front, but I guess it was wishful thinking. I really want to love BB and I want our local community to be able to justify investing time into the game. I wish they wouldn't make it so difficult to do that. Also more Celica info please.

1) Despite the fact that late tech is arguably stronger as a cock block in both Guilty Gear and Blazblue, why does it seem so much more obnoxious in Persona? Not being able to safe jump a two button reversal feels bad man. 2) Why does Naoto have to suck?

You joke, but I still think Raoh in the xrd engine would be by far the most rad visual in a fighting game ever.

It works the same way. It's actually much stronger in BB and GG since you have a significantly smaller window wherein you're vulnerable due to the anti chicken block in p4, but in BB you do have to deal with the possibility of TRM setups should you do the OS at the wrong time and the jump doesn't come out (leaving you on the ground in TRM state for quite a while), and in GG the OS is more costly due to the tension drain on FD, and the fact that if executed frame perfect, you can only neutral jump. One thing worth noting, it is actually possible to do the OS in p4 without whiffing the air throw; there's a 2 frame window in pre-jump where other inputs are not accepted, so the game will tech if you're already in the capture state of an opponent's throw, but the whiffed air throw will not come out, which means you are not in counter-hit state. It's difficult to do, and the OS is still worth it either way, but it's something to shoot for. Also for anyone who tries the OS and gets a grounded throw/barrier/FD, the input technically in all three games is 1, 7, 1+ buttons. 7+buttons on the same frame gives you a grounded throw in p4, ground barrier tech in bb, and ground FD in GG.