The DMK

I definitely agree with you. I try not to do too much theory fighter on characters I don't know well, but sometimes I can't help it. I would say though that in the case of Yun and Zato that we've seen enough of these characters to fairly say that they are pretty good (but I couldn't have an in-depth argument about whether Yun is top 12 or top 3). With Yun I don't think you need to be a character expert to recognize that he has a lot of good attributes. How people use the a character's attributes is what will ultimately determine how dominant that character is, but we can still look at the data and say of a character's moves that they are safe, have a great hitbox, combo options etc. In that sense, there is a certain baseline of a character's 'goodness' (sorry best word I got) that can be recognized. They might end up being overrated, but I feel like they don't usually end up being terrible. That being said, I'd also add that these things need to be evaluated over time. I feel like it is common for people to get hyped up and radically overestimate things on day/week one. We can observe the character (or play them) and draw some conclusions, but you definitely need a good amount of information and not just a brief glance.

In AC I definitely felt tiers to a degree. I play at a moderate level, but I'm not a top player by any means. I play Ky, and my friend (who is also at my level) played Slayer. Match-up aside, it was apparent how good Slayer was comparatively based on how much damage he could get off a hit (especially a CH) and how good some of his normals could be. Moves like BBU while unsafe are pretty scary to deal with. I didn't attribute my losses to tiers (I lost a lot), but I did find myself consistently dealing with the frustration of how strong Slayer is. In reference to the Ogawa making Zato top tier thing: In SF4, when Yun gets nerfed you always hear people say things like 'Good idea b/c Yun is winning so many tournaments kappa'. I would imagine if we didn't have a player as dominant as Ogawa we would have some people saying the same thing about Zato if he were to be nerfed. However, in both cases we don't need a super dominant player to be able to look at the character as objectively as we can and say that he is pretty damn good. Without someone really playing the character to its fullest potential, yah, it might be hard to say whether Zato/Yun is #1 or #4, but it is still easy to see that they are a top tier character (in our case we have Ogawa demonstrating just how good Zato can be). Simply determining if a character is really good is generally easier (and possibly more useful) than determining whether they are the top of the top or just in the top.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a pretty substantial amount of digital copies sold, but that is pure conjecture. It's only anecdotal, but it seems like a lot of people here are buying it digital (but then again they might just be avoiding the wait for it to ship from Japan or wherever). Bummed I missed the Leo stream, but he sounds, as expected, to be pretty cool.

Glad to see you back into it. Great stuff, can't wait to see what you figure out in the coming weeks/months.

Nah, you are practically an institution on Dustloop. I'm pretty sure that you actually look like Potemkin. Does Machaboo show any signs of coming back?

I've been hanging around here for a while, and I always remembered you, j1n, Destin, kr_nova and many more. Hoping Xrd brings back more of the older players. I never knew you played Zato, but I could see how him and Millia can go together.

AKA, I remember you playing Millia back in the day. Have you switched to Zato-1, or are you just curious? I feel like you were playing Robo-Ky at some point, so maybe you left Millia a while ago.

Thanks. I was taking into account the match-up experience part and Pachi's experience designing him, but I didn't realize Pachi is actually a top player. How far back was he on the winning SBO team (or what game)? I started playing in X2 and started watching match vids around #R, so maybe I missed it. As for Sin's specials looking a little homogenous, I noticed that as well, but it doesn't bother me too much. I'm just happy to have another character with that sort of medium range game going on.

Watched the Pachi versus FAB video. Pachi looks pretty good. Does anyone reckon FAB was going easy on him? Naturally, FAB also has a very small idea of what Sin is capable of. I'm sure Pachi plays the game a lot, so it seems logical that he knows what he is doing.

I like what I saw. His RTL seems controllable to some extent, or it has more than one variation. The first time it is done in the video it goes right, up-right, up left. The second time it ends with him going right again (into the wall). I believe someone mentioned it was controllable in GG2, so I wouldn't be surprised.

I was kidding about him replacing Johnny, I was just making a a joke based on my dream. I could imagine him being akin to Order Sol in some manner, at the very least because of the charge mechanic, but I still expect there to be pretty huge differences.

That is weird. I also had a dream where I was playing as/watching someone play as Sin. He kept doing what looked like Ensenga, so sorry guys, if my dream is to be trusted, we won't be seeing Johnny. I never played GG2, but I feel like his playstyle won't resemble Ky's a ton. It seems possible that he'll have the same sort of medium distance poking thing going on simply because of the size of his weapon. Being as he has the special cancel mechanic, I doubt he'll have a bunch of projectiles ala Ky (which is a pretty big aspect of what makes Ky play the way he does). It would seem kind of uncreative to give him that mechanic and make a big part of it cancelling projectiles into projectiles. I am guessing it'll be a more combo/pressure centric sort of thing. Of course, this is all pretty much baseless conjecture.

As r0b0t said, balance isn't the issue. I always found it to be a shame. They are fun to screw around with. If they were actually in the arcade version, we'd have some more variety for tourney play (not that I ever felt it was lacking). That being said, some of the EX characters seemed a little janky. Awkward animations and such like Ky's floppy 5H and weird flip move. Some of it looked like they were reusing parts of other moves. In general, they kind of feel like they were thrown together.

I always liked Daisuke's touch on the anime aesthetic (I liked the character art from X2 and #R, a little less...anime). It doesn't appear super outdated, but I'm no expert. I've considered that the Drive thing from BB was inspired by GG's tendency to give the characters unique systems (or just really distinctive characteristics) e.g. Eddie gauge, HOS' charge, Jam's seals, Robo Ky's meter/steam, ABA's blood packets, Baiken's guard cancels, Bridget's yo yo, Zappa's spirits. GG makes the character's uniqueness pretty overt.

It's all good. When someone suggests you enjoy using flow-chart autopilot characters it is hard not to take it as an insult. I guess now I can't challenge you to that $25000 money match to defend my honor. For some reason I never got a chance to play / much despite the fact that I owned it, but I remember that out of all the changes it was really the stun edges that shot Ky up the tiers. Outside of that he wasn't massively better. Anyone remember Ogawa playing #R Eddie vs Buppa's / Ky? Good times. What I was getting at though is that Ky is simply overall a better character, which is much more fun. BoJ: Those combos you linked to remind me of what folks are currently doing with Sol's dust loop. Modifying the ol' dust loop/VT loop and getting much cooler stuff (it is only natural given this is a new game). Glad to watch this all develop.