Assassinine

You misunderstand, hes saying hes not bothered by the change to blocked drives because hes already getting punished for blocked drives, which makes absolutely no sense to me.

How exactly are people punishing drives on block? At H1 its +4. Even with instant block you are still at advantage and you have a 6 frame 2A

I must be doing something wrong somehow? Houtenjin is beating 5D / j.D and Cutting Shear safejump setups in training, but not 2C safejumps. Am i performing my safejumps poorly or something? If not, i see no difference between drive safejumps and Cutting Shear safejumps. They both seem to beat pretty much everything but fast reversals like Houtenjin or F-Inverse. If drive safejumps are functionally the same as Cutting Shear safejumps, then it really doesnt make a difference to me which we use as long as we still get our safejump oki.

Judging by that video you dont actually get the heat level until Bullet returns to a neutral stance, so H0 5D snap wont allow you to engage. This seems to be the way Bullet's drive has always worked, as rapid cancelling a drive gives you the heat level immediately where otherwise you would have to wait until you fully recover.

Why not just do the old round start backthrow OD combo? 4B+C > OD > 2D > 6D > 236D 95 heat 3097 damage

Im with you Fogel, this patch almost entirely killed my Terumi hype. -Orochi corner carry gone, 3C 6D link gone. Replaced with a character specific OTG combo -Most raw OD combos removed. -6B crouching confirm is cool but 5C change removed TK loops, so we traded a strong confirm for a weaker, more braindead one. -Orochi mixup can whiff entirely if they simply barrier block the previous move, gives poor reward on hit without RC and OD, leaves you in a bad position on block. A lot of cool things were removed and the new things are either weaker than what we used to have, or plain underwhelming, imo.

http://youtu.be/pV_C6QxKB8w?t=49s (the second taunt combo video) Can anyone explain why this occurs? The video suggests that it has something to do with Ragna's health but that shouldnt have anything to do with Terumi's meter gain, right?

I posted that about a month ago, long before those videos showed up. @HMM: He did OD Burensen, his OD timer ran out, and he cancelled into regular Burensen, which has no bow. The ability to cancel supers into other supers isnt tied to overdrive, its tied to OD versions of supers. The interesting part is he cancelled into regular Burensen after the big kick at the end of OD burensen, which is impossible on 1.0. Im guessing that now you can cancel the final kick into another super, where in 1.0 you can only cancel during the rapid stomp portion of the super, which is wasteful.

Doesnt the 1.1 patch solve jagaku's issue by pushing Terumi back slightly further?

But isnt hitstun entirely determined by combo starter and elapsed time during combo, and completely independant of damage proration? If anything i would think the level increase would make the 5D 6D link better.

The extra hits might make it take slightly longer to animate, which could cause problems with hitstun later in the combo, making some things that work normally cease to work. As far as A Burensen, if it has a variant, its gonna have to do something really neat to make it worthwhile. It has a relatively long animation so it would really kill your OD and combo timers unless done as an ender. It also has to compete with the combo-ability / oki of OD Soutenjin and the raw damage output of OD B Burensen.

Rachel has always had a silly OTG hitbox, dont expect that link to work on anyone else

Wait what? B Burensen is only -1 according to the wiki, is A Burensen horribly negative? Did they change the frame data for B Burensen without putting it in the changelog? Is the wiki just wrong?

I believe you need a total of 6 inputs of C before the second stomp in order to get level 3 version

A quick glance at the wiki says orochi is 13+2 The change to command grab is likely to allow us to combo into AA Renshouga, even if that is a terrible idea.

Well you have to factor in that the opponent will likely be in blockstun when you attempt Orochi mixup. Ive fiddled with dummy recorded 236D RC orochi to test the waters. Ive managed to inferno divider out of it, but its not easy. You are still in blockstun during the flash so you cant just mash it, you have to actually time your DP to within a frame or two of the Orochi actually landing. I think the level of precision required to DP out will discourage people from attempting to DP out every time. If you were to attempt this mixup off of something with a little more blockstun, i imagine it would be DP-proof

The OD unblockable setups already scream "use your DP/burst/OD now!". It will be even more gimmicky after the patch with that huge startup nerf on Renshouga.

Who anti-airs with 2D? Thats a thing? 3C 6D may indeed be in jeopardy, but we wont know until its live. 5D 6D with the 5D buffs should keep 6d links working in the corner for most combos You are looking at the new Renshouga wrong. Its not an air move, its an anti-air move. It throws the chain diagonally upwards. Its still not going to be very useful as it can be barrier blocked. With the dramatic nerf to existing Renshouga's startup, im not expecting either of these supers to be of any use. Orochi mixup wont be very strong, as we will only be able to follow up the high version, and only in the corner. Ultimately RC mixup will be superior in almost every scenario. Midscreen 22C may give us some gross midscreen damage, but i think thats too good to be true. Im expecting it to be 236D stuff for meter, 22C stuff for screen carry and better oki. Im expecting us to be incapable of reaching them after the wallbounce, and it will become an Azrael style scenario where they have to emergency tech to avoid being scooped into big damage. I could be totally wrong though.

Im lamenting what appears to be the potential loss of nearly all of his raw OD setups. I dont want to deal with poverty cancel OD duration

My personal thoughts on these changes 5C - I hope this doesnt negatively affect combo routes and timers 5D - I hope this allows air hit 5D 6D links in more situations 2D - Does this mean we have to take garbage air confirms if they get caught jump/backdashing? 6C - Farewell raw OD combos from CH 6C 6D - We may need to use 5D to land juggle 6Ds now? Jagaku - looks like they wont be able to roll past us anymore Garengeki - Midscreen followups from level 3, or simply better oki by forcing emergency tech? looks like no more raw OD after 22C, are we going to have any raw OD setups left besides FC 6B? Damage change looks like its intended to break the SMP resets damage output? Messenga - seems like a nice QoL change, but i question its use if we are getting midscreen 22C followups Air Messenga - Followups now? Yolo Messenga to beat anti airs OD Soutenjin - Who honestly CHs with this? Extra 4 frames to followup is nice Renshouga - That startup change worries me, both for combo applications and unblockable resets.

If you hit burst during superflash it will burst after superflash, but before Orochi hits. You blow Terumi away and he loses his 50 meter. Unless you mean unable to burst after being hit. ~2500 unburstable on hit is ok i guess. Edit: Even more reason to use RC mixup over Orochi mixup. RC mixup midscreen will allow Garengeki, get the bonus proration that it grants, kick them across the screen, and allow you to run up and continue the combo for even more screen carry and giving oki. Orochi mixup will simply kick them across the screen, with no ability to follow up and no oki.

If it is reversal proof, it isnt because of the invulnerability on Orochi, but because of the blockstun of the move you use it from. 5C RC jC 2B has no gap to DP through. jC has no hitstop, and all 3 hits are overheads. The result is a very fast multi-high to low hit transition that must be blocked perfectly. The timing can be adjusted to do 2 overheads into a low, or 1 overhead into a low, while still being frame-tight and thus DP-proof. If they swap block stances too soon they get fuzzied, too late they get hit low. This over-head to low transition is absurdly fast due to the lack of hitstop on jC. Compared to Orochi mixup, this setup is similarly unreactable, reversal safe, and both combo starter options are N starters that dont require meter to follow up. There is more potential to regain meter, possibility of OD combos, and higher max damage with or without OD. Best of all, there is no superflash to tell them that the mixup is coming, it happens very quickly, forcing them to make a decision immediately. 5C RC mixup is simply better than Orochi mixup. The only advantage i can think of for Orochi mixup is that it can be done from a distance via 236D. 6C mixup isnt as strong as its 5C counterpart, but will likely be preferable to Orochi as it doesnt need RC to follow up any of its options, and you keep oki no matter which mixup option you use.

6B is definitely looking to be more powerful with the buff its recieving, ill give you that. The issue comes in when you consider the alternative to orochi mixup. The 5C RC mixup we have now offers similar damage, higher max damage due to N starters allowing 22C and OD combos, better meter return, better oki, with more than just high/low mixup, and if the opponent blocks the first mixup you can still try a weaker secondary mixup or use the buffed 6B to reset pressure. If RC mixup is simply better than this superflash mixup in nearly every way, why bother? If they had simply copy-pasted the animation for current Orochi and swapped out the first hit with a low, it could have been a fantastic addition to his arsenal. The new anti-air DD is also questionable. It costs 100 meter, can be barrier blocked, and any situation where you can combo into it you would be better served using Fuuenjin. I dont think theres any practical application of this super. Terumi's absence from arcades and lack of playtesting is really starting to show, imo.

Neutral tech is in Terumi's favor. I did a bit more testing, it turns out that theres a character specific 1 frame link. If you do a 2A the first frame they pass you, these are my results. I dont have Kokonoe~ Hit: Mu, Makoto, Relius, Hakumen, Litchi, Azrael, Izayoi, Amane, Jin, Arakune, Carl, Tsubaki, Rachel, Bang, Nu. Block: Ragna, Tao, Tager, Noel Whiff: Hazama, Bullet, Kagura, Terumi, Platinum, Valk This list changes slightly depending on how you land the super, with some characters becoming safer and others becoming more vulnerable. For the test i used blocked OD 5D 236D RC Burensen to simulate superflash mixup. It should be noted that for the characters that 2A hits, it is a true 1 frame link, the turbo buffer system cannot help you. The timing also varies slightly depending on the character you are fighting. Characters that 2A hits, it hits after they pass you, you get 1700 meterless and they are midscreen, or you can use another 50% to sideswap combo for 2700.to get corner back. If you miss the 1 frame window you will whiff a 2A in the wrong direction and the enemy gets to pressure you. Characters that block the 2A block it at max range with roll momentum, combined with block pushback means pretty much every followup normal will whiff or also be absolutely max range, meaning no mixup opportunities. The only option appears to be 6B pressure reset, but if it gets read as your only option, it will get blown up and you are down in the corner. If you try to dash 2A to get better options, it wont be meaty and they can mash. Characters that 2A whiffs against can challenge you after they are done rolling. My opinion remains unchanged, RC mixup is still much more appealing. RC mixup gives more mixup options, more follow-through options on block, regains more meter, and gives guarunteed oki that isnt reliant on landing a 1F link with variable timing against specific characters and requiring your last 50 heat if you even have it. Soutenjin will win out as a combo tool because it animates fast enough to not eat up much of your combo time. Low orochi is looking to be the longest 50 meter DD, so unless it animates really fast in OD, Soutenjin will beat it as a combo tool. OD Low Orochi may end up being a damaging combo ender at the cost of oki, but we wont know until we have the patch.

Its not necessarily worse in OD. OD Orochi does somewhere in the ballpark of 1300 minimum damage, which makes it a nice option as an OD combo ender if you really want the extra damage at the cost of losing oki. You still have OD Soutenjin as an option if you want to keep oki. Unfortunately you cannot 2A to catch rolls after using a super that ends with a bow. This is really the crux of the issue with low Orochi. EDIT: @Necro: Double-super enders do more damage than OD Fuuenjin. The primary use of OD Fuuenjin is to drain meter from your opponent or to do 5 gorillion damage on a gimmick reset.