Kcin

Here are the uploads of some of my recent matches I've done online, I haven't gotten a chance to record my locals which will mostly be Kanji, Naoto, Adachi and P.Sho matches I ate a ton of reversals from S.Lab trying to see if I was able to react with my own only to fail every atempt, and I can often be reckless to see how my opponent will react to my shennanigans just to give a heads up on things I do that don't make sense (Part 1) http://youtu.be/YrXK0OFiTrw (Part 2) http://youtu.be/jhjPWZliPiI

Hey fellow labrys players, I've been struggling to figure out how to really play my main due to all these changes ruining my old approach and ways to pressure and bait. Firstly the shrinking of her j.A's hitbox behind has stopped my IABD j.A, and many cases of hitting my opponent in the air with my back turned when I need a fast confirm. The new 5AA consistently whiffs airborne characters and loss of jump cancelling off it has hurt my hitconfirming/burst baiting in cases when 2B would be too slow to use I'll record some locals and online matches soon, I could really use critique and advice. My skype and psn are xXKcinXx if anyone would like to play matches as well

Yeah it's consistent with koko because I'm doing 6BC>j.B at a rhythm which I recently started using her as the bar on the timing I use for every character now. The inconsistent thing with her is j.C>j.B drops when you don't delay the C because of her stupid hurtbox when it should hit everyone else, except maybe carl too.

I'm delaying the C on 6BC by pushing it after seeing/hearing the ground bounce, which causes them to get hit higher in the air making j.B hit on it's own. When you 6BC as fast as possible you have to use j.CB which usually causes j.D to drop.

My use for rapids are almost entirely for forced corner carry with oki intention, the bizzarre OD converts, and needing that tiny bit of extra damage to score a kill. If I confirm a normal starter I would go into 214A~CC>RC 66>2D>6A>6BC>j.B>j.D>5D>etc... or same up till 6A>6B>236D>etc...(I need to reconfirm the alt combo). I end lunatic upper instantly to avoid killing combo time. After a 6C into mars chopper, you can catch them with 2A and convert into some extra damage, push, or OD setup, although the timing is pretty tight. If that's too hard just rapid after the 214A~C, or use lv2 lander>RC or 236D>RC>5B>6A for the same results. Another use would be after hitting 236D then dashing in if the screen isn't going to scroll enough for the wall splat on its own. Lastly I can think of is after an air 623C~D>RC>j.B>623C~D for to squeeze that extra damage to kill, or if the dp is very early you could j.B>jc>j.D them instead. Edit: I forgot one more. If your back is to the corner 5B>5CC>5D>RC>66>2B>6A/5C>j.B>j.D>66>2B>6A>2D>etc... 5B>5CC>5D>RC>66>214A~C>236D>5B>6A>2D>6BC>j.CB>j.CB>623C~D When you dash in you need to push the body a bit before you pick them up. What I do is in then 63214A~C to move them and input 214A~C as quick as possible.

Ok, tested out what I believe is every possible outcome. >The timing is tight but when done perfect and spaced right, all rolls and neutral get hit by orb and can be red beat from, and is DP safe. >If you're too slow and the orb is close enough to hit all rolls, it becomes unsafe against ET DPs.(Tested CU and ID) >If you're too slow but far enough to hit everything except back rolls, it's ET DP safe.(CU whiffs ID blocked) >If they eat ANY orb hits with a roll/QS, you can break shot and convert into damage or proper orb oki. >When orb hits them on rolls or quick stand,it forces them to ET if you do not Break shot and they hold a button. >If they choose not to ET or react too slow after eating orb, you can pick up with 2A/2B which is the blue beat punish I was referring to in my last post. There is no gap in this unless you mis-time the punish. >If you time it horribly off and are too close, a forward roll will make it through and you'll be open. That would take terrible netplay to honestly make that happen. One other thing is I'm not constantly using this as my go to strategey, but more when I hit something like a corner overhead, or a confirm when I wasn't prepared to 6C into and ended up going that route. I've had too many matches where I get disrepected on 2D orb oki because if they don't ET, they eat the orb hits and get a free air tech unless you lv3 break shot.

In my current experience, when they delay and eat the hit, if they push anything too fast it'll cause them to E-tech, which then at that point you're already neutral. When they've tried to eat it then roll/quick stand, It usually ends with them eating a 2B/5C blue beat back into orb. There may be an extremely small gap that could allow a forward roll,(or it could have been bad execution on my part in my matches) which most times I got a free 5CC then I'd 2D side swap them back into the corner given the character I'm fighting against. As for the back roll statement, there are times I'll orb too fast on the dash that it sits directly in front of them,(sometime I purposefully do this to attempt to bait growlers from Az) and if they back roll without eating the hit, then at the very least I know I won't be punished for it. Truth be told I've had positive results using smp so far in my locals, but my chance to take it beyond that has been very limited and I haven't gotten on my ps3 in quite some time for varying reasons. If this turns out to be bad tech, I apologize in advance for wasting people's time discussing it so frequently

For that specific combo the 2D is the 10th hit, so you can 5D again which even though it smp's you still have enough time to set up orb safely for 3k still. If you hit a normal starter into 5D, only use one other Drive, and end with j.D>5D on or before the 10th hit, you'll get almost all of 5D's regular untech time with the smp. Using this in matches, if they do anything other than emergency tech they'll eat orb hits, and E-tech or back roll if spaced too far gives you enough time to safely recover

Well I'm planning to jump online in a few hours to spar, replay showcase, and just play the game since I haven't all week. I'm aiming for 1pm EST to jump online and the room. Look for Something squirrel themed or my name online if people are interested/free

Are you on the vita skype? It only does voice and video chat on there.

OMG I have lost soooo many matches because of that right there that it lead me to always trying to make comsic ray my final move before closing out. I've never even pondered the possibility that I could delay the 2nd hit, I'll have to practice that now.

xXKcinXx is my skype, and psn as well. If we at least get some of us with solid enough connections we can practice, test, and match experience. Also since we can do online replay rooms, we could make share matches we had to showcase approaches and potential exploits on moves and habits, which we can stream or capture for upload for archives and stuff

While connection will probably be an issue for some, it still may be something we can use to our advantage because I feel like we're our only hope for keeping makoto competitively viable until our next revision http://youtu.be/pZDIZUadptA I'm lazy and felt it's faster to explain lightning arrow options in video The 6A routes after on FC can be used with Lightning Arrow, Shooting Star, and Comet Cannon Cause Lightning Arrow and Comet Shot are short starters, the j.D timing is strict and I would advise removing/replacing hits that aren't necessary if you go for corner carry. Another option is 6A>6B>236D that can be inserted in spots too Using 2C on the short start fatals uses more combo time than other viable moves, or just omitting it altogether will ensure a PF finish if you aren't going for oki

I haven't played much of 1.1 because I was playing terrible in neutral with my group in locals, on top of not knowing how to capitalize on confirms when i got them. I've spent most time in the lab to learn the new routes and build muscle memory for reaction so i'd be better prepared once this off streak ends. Honestly they didn't touch makoto's neutral so our aim like Ranger said should be learning how to best handle matchups through sharing ideas and the sort. I do think some good has come from all the combo talk because it seems like some people(myself included) got something of a morale boost, and my thoughts of quitting BB or switching are no more. TL:DR I'm done crying, time to get back in this fulltime. All the combo talk shows us a few things though, like crush triggers are not combo practical for damage, so they should only be used in neutral, or for a situational CT>PF kill combo route. 5D can be used twice in the corner and still net reasonable damage and orb oki safely with the smp The damage in routes is fairly consistent, and swapping certain moves at points is for ease of execution for only a 100 or so point difference. Last part of my rant, do you think we should do online sparring seesions in a group setting to exchange ideas in realtime, or for people to practice scenarios vs makoto? I've got local friends that play some characters proficiently that constantly fight my makoto that could help us practice matchups and test tech and such.

CP has online training mode match style with round time and basic settings like hp and heat levels, regeneration, normal/infinite barrier and burst options, starting side, and player specific buffs on/off. I actually use the mode in a game with my friends where we set our characters life at the mark where 5k damage even will kill you with regenerating health and meter, but regular bursts and barrier, and the goal is to get a KO in any way possible, be it red or blue beat combo. I call it the 5k challenge and it's like playing an endless game until you set them up or get the perfect confirm. We usually play a best 2 of 3 or 3 of 5. I still haven't got to test if spectators get to watch the sparring which if they can we were planning to stream some sessions

I've started using 5CC over 6C for almost all enders now because of reading earlier posts of people saying that the PF timing was easier even on long combos. The second thing I've noticed is that 6C now has more pushback on hit than before which on long combos if you aren't close enough with the 6C the last hit of PF will completely whiff(as this was already an issue with plat and Mu), and this is happening to me far too frequently that I'm now opting for 2C/6B/6BC/5CC > PF in all cases over 6C now because of this. For that combo swapping the 6A for 2C would be harder execution-wise but should get more damage. since you're going 5B straight to 6C you should be able tack on 6A to the 5BC > 5D while still getting PF or 5CC > DP for the finish. Edit: swapping 6A for 2C, adding 6A to 6BC, and finishing with 5CC>j.CB>623C~D will hit for 4.2k on your combo As far as OD goes, it seems completely untouched so you shouldn't need to alter them much for 1.1. The only problem now with j.B's reduced untech time, jump cancel OD has a smaller window, demanding near perfect execution. I have a list of rules and things to remember for using OD that I go by as I tend to improv when I don't convert in a preferred style: > If you can astral the opponent and still have burst, 6A/5B/6B/6BC/5C/5CC can OD cancel into astral if you don't want to play neutral or hit them with 2/5A. > A normal starter confirm can have 6 drive attacks total. After 3 non drive hits, subtract 1 drive attack for every 2~3 non drive hits used in the combo(corona upper does not count so treat it as 1 drive move for each). -Distortions do no factor to either category and usually don't disrupt the combo Ex1: 5B>5CC(3Atks)>2D(2)(1 drive)>5B>6A>j.CB(super jump if near max range)>jc OD(4 more Atks so I remove 1 drive)>air623C~D>dash623C~D(3 Drives by now)>632146D>5D>214A~D(5 Drives)>PF finish (5754) >I convert to OD off jump canceled j.B's, airborne 2D(3) setups (Ex:6A>2D(3)>OD>623C~D>etc...), midscreen 236D wall splats(like challenge mode does), and a normal starter that quickly gets to j.D or 5D in a corner >Throw starters I must get to OD by 4 hits after the throw period, and would only risk using 5 drive attacks at max >At high health try to do most of the combo before OD, at 1/2 and under, convert as quickly as possible and carry on from there Honestly the best thing about the patch is that all OD combos should be good in 1.1

I don't know if it's possible but I agree with all 3 of you in some areas but it lead me to finding out new things that help to renew my faith a little more than it's been. The difficulty of her combos I'm sure we all agree with and I miss the j.B loops because it gave us absolute control of which direction we want them flying from j.D without relying on the 2D(2 into 3) methods, or when it's unavailable. I agree with the statement about the pay off being slightly better in my own ways, which is that with every LV3 fatal's special properties I've been able to utilize the 6B~C ground bounce in order to corner carry 100% midscreen all being capable of ending with j.D > 5D orb oki with at least 3k damage on it, or I can go for Particle Flare ender to net 4.3k+ on them all as well This is true because my biggest problem is that there's very little room for variation in any of the routes I mentioned above outside of swapping one move for another to be ease of execution, or optimal and painfully precise for the best damage A little something I came across on topic to this qoute: if you confirm 5B > 5CC > 5D someone in the corner, you can still get 3k damage and safe 5D orb oki even with the smp at the end, but you must follow certain rules or it'll be bad end. > You must hit the 2nd 5D no later than the 10th in the combo > You can only use 1 other Drive(2D or 236D not both) before ending the combo with j.D > 5D > oki > As long as your starter is N and you follow the first two rules, you should still get oki at the end Welcome to DL and thanks to your post, I fired up the game for the first time in about 5 days after utter despair. I've played around and pushed the damage on this combo a smidge higher and helped me finally figure out a 5k 5B starter corner combo 6C > 214A~C > 236D > 2C > 2D > 6C > 214B j.B~j.D > 6B~C > 5D > 5CC > PF (5210 dmg) >The 2D > 6C and be swapped for 2D > 6A which is an easier option for 5174 dmg >You can start the combo with 5B, just do 6B into 5D at at the end (4991 w.6A / 5022 w.6C) I'm tired and hungry, I'll either do a video of the FC stuff and other combos or type it all up at a later time. Edit: Lander is still a bad move but check this at 100 meter: midscreen/corner FC Lander > CT > 20%OD > 2C > 214B~D > delayed 2D > air 623C~D > 214A~D > 236D > 623C~D > 632146D > 236236D (7204dmg) >Hardest part of the combo is the OD > 2C pickup. It's pretty much the parry 8k replaced with Lander and pushing the limits to get back to 100 heat for double super. > you can do shooting star or cosmic ray in either order, there's only a 3 dmg difference (7207 dmg)

A habit i'm starting to form for damage routes is to jB~jD as soon as possible to save the frustration later in the string if I have no intention for orb on that combo. Midscreen i'm starting to autopilot these 2 combos now (not going to play online randoms until i get in tune with 1.1) 5B > 6C 214A~C > 236D > 66 6C > 214B > jB~D > 5D > (2C > 2D > 6B~C >DP or 2D > 6A > jC~B > jC~B > DP) at work so i don't remember the damage off rip, something like 4k-ish IIRC I'll fix any errors with this when i get home

I've been thinking the same thing here after some more experimenting, and most combos i'm playing around with are netting me near 4k if I just aim to do as much damage as possible I've managed to figure out a few corner 5k's. Hopefully there's some more practical ones that work off more common confirms. FC 2C > CT > 2B > 6A > 2D > 236D > 6A > 6C > 214B~jB > jD > 5D > 6C > PF (5259dmg) 6C > 214A~C > 236D > 2C > CT > 2B > 6A > 2D > jB > jD > 5D > 6C > PF (5511dmg) Swag 5k: FC 2C > 236D > 6B~C > 2D > 6B > 236A~D > 66 6A > 6C > 214B~jB > jD > 5D > 6C > PF (5081dmg) Edit* another corner 5K 6C > 632146D > RC > 2D > 6B~C > 236D > 6B~C > 5D > 2B > 5C > jB > 623C~D (5957dmg) 5B > 6C > 632146D > RC > 2D > 6B~C > 5D > 214A~C > 236D > 6A > jC~B > jC~B > 623C~D (5682dmg)

Played around with 1.1 and i'm going to need to adjust my timing cause i feel like i have to play makoto faster now. I mainly only tested 2 things of importance to me other than seeing how many routes i use still work. 1st is the space counter > RC > OD30% > CT > 2C etc... into 8.1k still works, but the reduced CT time means if you want to sideswap you'll have to hit 2D early to fling them over you. 2nd is was a random idea i wanted to test with FCs which do work in the corner. 2C FC > 214A~A > 6A > 6B~C >2D(lv2) > 6A > 6B~C >2D(lv2) 6A > 6B > PF(4.3k I think?) On any lv3 FCs i can only loop 6A > 6B~C >2D(lv2) twice before they tech out of the 3rd 6A. I'm really disliking how bad things are now; Timing is now tighter than ever, I have yet to figure out how to break 4.5k damage without OD, and I have only gotten 1 CT combo to red beat so far. I also am partially disgusted at that near 7k FC bullet combo for 75% meter at just about center screen.

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So I played around with your combo and figured a way to get 8106. Parry > Space Counter lv3 > RC > CT > 214A~B > OD(<34%) > 2C > 214B~D > 2D > air 623C~D > 623C~D > 236D > 214A~D > 236236D 8106dmg 125 Heat Soon as the low life heat gain kicks in this becomes possible, however at 35% on the mark i can't get OD particle flare at the end, but it will still hit for 7694dmg. After more testing this combo is possible from anywhere in the stage and can even go from corner to corner at 30% and under. Although if you go corner to corner you need to sub shooting star for 5D then cosmic ray for 8035dmg, which means that route will drop on jin and valk at the end. Edit: I've finally taken to time to put this combo and it's variations into a video for a visual reference. Here's to hoping CT stun lasts long enough for this combo to still be viable after the patch. http://youtu.be/IwvIo2QJ6HE Notes that'll also be in the video description: Hitting Lv2 Counter kills 1k damage off the combo vs a lv3.(That's the reason for repeats of the combo) Even though there's only a 1 heat gain difference between levels 2 and 3, you need at least 87 for a Lv2 vs 81 on a Lv3 if you want to hit 50 with certainty by the time you need it to finish off the combo. the 2D Sideswap combo has 2 purposes; 1st is what happens when you hit 2D too early, but allows you to jump straight up and DP rather than dash into a jumping one. The 2nd is my hope that this method will still works on 1.1 if the CT stun time is reduced too much to crossup with AV, as I haven't seen footage of how much it's been shortened with my own eyes.

If you're referring to doing it in the middle of combo strings it's more a matter of knowing the timing when you're able to jump and buffering 632147 so the 6 and 2 aren't dropped from buffering too slow trying to end at the jump. I'm fairly bad at doing TK DPs in general, but i personally have a better success rate doing 6293, but most of my combos start with air DP first so i can avoid needing to TK DP in the first place

For me truthfully, I feel it out based on the factors at hand. I'll run through them and maybe it'll be of some help If my back's to the wall or the corner is very close by, regardless of CH or not I autopilot into jc falling j.C > j.B > 66(cross under rejump) > j.B > j.D to send them to the corner in my place. After some thought I almost always falling j.C > j.B > j.B... after 6As because I often use my OD after jc'ing j.B into air DP > etc. on all normal confirms that go into an air combo. if I'm close enough to keep going these are routes I autopilot starting with 2B > 5B > 6A > 2D... > 236D > 6A> 5D > 6C > 623C~D (3048dmg) or 236236D (3917dmg) > 2C> CT > 236236D (3760dmg) > OD<75% > 623C~D > 236D > 5D > 214A~D > 236236D (4658dmg) > OD<75% > 623C~D > 632146D > 5D(w.holding 4) > 214A~D > 236236D (5079dmg) Optimized alternatives after the j.D into corner are 214A~C > 236D > 6A > 2D... > 2C > CT > 236236D (4061dmg) > OD<75% > 623C~D > 5D > 214A~D > 236236D (4839dmg) > OD<75% > 623C~D > air 623C~D > 632146D > 236236D (5424dmg) When the dead angle happens and I don't do the above I opt to do a late 5B > 5C > 2D(1) > 5B > 6A > (insert bnb). From mid screen those few hits push enough to land them in the corner after j.D after testing the 5A > 6A option, it's a really solid choice too because you can carry them about half the screen into orb oki, or switch sides with a micro on the 5A. An Example would be midscreen CH 6A > 5A > 6A > 2D(3) > micro 2C > 214A > 236D > 66 > 6A jc > j.B > j.D > 5D > orb oki (2669dmg) -or- 6C > 236236D (3881dmg)

One of the biggest slaps in the face we got is that mars chopper no longers combos crouching opponents like before. We also have no fatal counters that hit and keep the opponent in crouch state to add to this. So why in the hell did arcsys decide to give us back the mars chopper>2D revolver action from CS2 during overdrive when there is no realistic way to ever apply it for any purpose period? I mean, if my OD is ever on for any intent and purpose and i'm not smashing their face with drive for the entirety of the time, what isanity would cross my mind to use an unsafe blockstring/move over a slightly negative 5D trying to fish for fatals?