Cerotech Omega

I was wondering if anything would come through. But that does beg one question: just what is the purpose of this fight? Did Relius lure the lost Izayoi and Makoto into conflict, or is Relius tailing Makoto and Izayoi happened upon her by chance? You double-posted. I know it's probably a mistake on the system's behalf, but still, you might wanna do something about that. As for a repeat of THAT ending, I doubt it: in Relius' Act I, he let Makoto run off, then faced her in a rematch before she got rerouted to Izanami in her Act II. It may be that, after her Act II, he's trying to see if her power of order is innate or if she's strong enough to emulate it herself; it's not on Jin's level, to be fair, but that begs the question of where her soul's own power ends and the power of order begins.

You're doing God's work, zedar. But still, ix-nay on the Biki-hay. That guy needs his head cleaned out. On that note, I don't fault you for losing track of Makoto's Act III -- you've had a lot on your plate just getting this done.

Not in a million years. Noel was adopted into House Vermillion.

No, I think at least one of those is from Act I. Hazama does not appear at all in Makoto's Act II.

Don't you mean "second"? Wasn't Noel there with Ragna when Izanami caused him to lose control of his grimoire? She wasn't sick then.

Huh. You know, as I read all of these, I think I'm starting to see the greater picture... there's no denying what's been said may have some inkling towards the truth, but rather than just play it all at face value, we should try to look deeper. Not that some of you aren't already trying, and to those of you who are, you have my respect. But this is the truth that I have found... 1] Nine herself is hooked on Izanami's bait 2] Izanami's promise of wish fulfillment is false. Let's take a look at some of the folks Izanami has proposed to and how they react. Skewers Izanami without hesitation. Izanami points him towards Amaterasu if he wants her to disappear. Izanami offers the Azure to Jin, but he casually destroys the fragment; his logic being that he wanted to obtain the Azure merely to destroy it. This makes it easy for Izanami to point him at Amaterasu, Izanami offers the Azure, and shows a vision of what Kaka Village could be. Tao points out that while Kaka Village could be better, if she used the Azure for this purpose, it wouldn't be Kaka Village anymore, and rejects the offering. Personal note: her character degeneration had disappointed me significantly, but this does offer a glimmer of hope. Izanami lets Nirvana and Nu eject from Arakune before pointing him at Noel (read: Amaterasu). Izanami offers the Azure; he gets a glimpse of Carl getting Ada, only to see her being integrated into Nirvana anyway. Izanami uses this as fuel to point Carl towards Amaterasu. / Rejects the Azure, both intending to use Noel or Amaterasu for their own designs. Izanami shows them with Jubei for a moment, but that is dashed, with Izanami pointing at Amaterasu as the cause of their disappointment. While she manages to piece things together (this includes that her captain is Tager), Izanami points towards Amaterasu as the cause for the repetition of her tragedy. Hibiki: Izanami points him at Noel, since she states she's the reason the NOL will turn on Kagura. More than likely, she's pointing Hibiki at Amaterasu. EDIT: Kinda forgot to include the conclusion, but you notice how they're all pointing at a single target. Compound this with the fact that she left Terumi and Relius to their fates in Chronophantasma when they stopped being useful to her; who's to say she won't betray any of them in their moment of triumph? 3] Notice how I'm missing someone in the above? Still, damn shame what happens to ...

Master of Chaos has a point. The only reason none of the conflict and tragedies would happen is because everyone would be dead. Part of the whole reason folks were trying to stop Doomsday is to save the people who weren't already killed by it, and there's the question of how Relius would contain Izanami anyway. Besides, there's still the question of what "perfect doll" entails. Yes, Relius may be tired of Amaterasu's interference like everyone else, but one has to wonder how bad things would be if he wasn't part of the problem to begin with (keep in mind he was helping Terumi and Shuichiro destroy Amaterasu in the first place). I get that much of what he does is to satiate his scientific curiosity, but it's the methods that folks object to. And you know the worst part? If I had no choice but to support a villain in this series, I'd pick him in a heartbeat because the other options, beyond exception, suck even worse.

I wouldn't be so quick as to pull in a completely fresh cast, folks. There are still a large number of loose ends that need to be tied up, and lord knows how many CF will leave behind by the end. I'd like to see the cast resolve whatever problems they can first. Just going to a fresh cast without some form of resolution is just bad writing, and if the cast is too fresh, it might as well not be BlazBlue, right? Naoto? Mori has one game to sell me that he can pick up where Ragna left off where someone else wouldn't be capable. If he hijacks Ragna early, all bets are off; I'd like to see Ragna resolve his own crap, or at least make a wholehearted attempt, before the end, thank you very much. Terumi? He and Hazama had three games in which to develop as a character, and all we've gotten is that (a) he masturbates to making others suffer, (b) practically everything he accomplishes is for his own benefit, (c) he gets frustrated, if not homicidally angry, when people interfere with his work, and (d) he is incapable of adjusting to an ever-changing world. He's a sociopath to the core, and thus incapable of development, something a protagonist (even a villainous one) must possess in order to be worthwhile. A story just about him messing with others? In my opinion, that'd be a waste of everyone's time. Linhua? That joke was born around the time Rachel was observing her first iteration of the timeloop, and it was old even then. Even a timeskip would do nothing to correct it. On the subject, correcting said issues should take priority over any timeskip, unless it is clear nothing of note can be done without one. Spinoffspring or disciples should be kept out of the equation until such time comes. With the duds eliminated, let's continue. I'd be okay with Rachel, but one has to wonder how seriously she'd take to the stage in that case. It'd be a learning experience, for sure. Tsubaki'd be a more viable candidate, too, given how she has the potential to move beyond her foolish, black-and-white vision of the world, with Chronophantasma a good start and Centralfiction being a nice way to continue. Even then, the New Library would need some compassionate folks to lead the charge, and Kagura and Jin won't be able to do it themselves. Seeing that would be a treat. The same could be said for Jin, seeing how his life would carry on without Ragna; if the power of order defines his existence as "destroy Ragna", wouldn't the worth of his existence be defined by how he continues afterward? Makoto, on the other hand? Sign me up. Even after everything that she's been through in-story, she still has lots of potential to develop, and we still know next to squat about her pre-Academy backstory, which could hold some significant secrets on how she became who she is, both during Heart to Heart and in the present day, as well as anchors to the present story's final resolution.

Thank you, VermillionBird, for cleaning up that lunacy. I'll deal with another piece. It's pretty much an inevitability that the conflict will start back up soon after Izanami is deposed; we just can't guess HOW soon. Also, even if the Duodecim knew that Tenjo was the old Imperator and can accept Homura as the rightful successor, the Committee just don't care, and likely would go about business as usual unless they are coerced into accepting a truce ("The fact that they're trying to take me out of the picture by force could mean that they intend to fight the Library for real."). Something needs to be done to bring both groups to amicable terms or we WILL see a conflict after Izanami is deposed as the highest power of the world. Got any ideas how that can be accomplished, guys?

I wasn't exactly surprised, given how Taro was assigned to Jin, who's been attending the Academy since at least a year before the girls. Some things are lost in translation, though. And Suzaku, thanks for the screenshot anyway. Gaia knows we need all the info we can get, and the Wiki doesn't include Library information besides the page names (links go to character entries instead). I just hope I covered all my bases with that wall of text.

Bullet's vendetta has jack-shit to do with Ragna, and it got elaborated upon in The Rat. He just happened upon her by chance, and only interfered with her when Azrael decided to kill her. Nothing more, nothing less. Litchi and Arakune have very little to do with Ragna, and they got elaborated upon in Collision. Ragna just happened upon them by chance, and made no effort to interfere with them hence until Arakune tried to eat Noel in Chronophantasma; the only reason he didn't act further was because Kagura acted first. The Ikaruga Civil War has jack-shit to do with Ragna, and fleshing it out was the entire point of Bang's backstory, part of Jin's backstory, a sizable part of That Which is Inherited, and the entire point of the side stories in Chronophantasma Extend. Wheel of Fortune had the barest of connections to Ragna, mostly revolving around First Lieutenant Tsubaki Yayoi of the 4th Thaumaturgist Division, Ministerial Secretary to Jin Kisaragi. Ragna was only involved at the end, and only made Tsubaki his business because of Nu-13. Even then, he did little to directly interact with her, even when she shielded Jin from Nu's hatred. The parallel instance Slight Hope had next to nothing to do with Ragna, either. The Military Academy backstory had jack-shit to do with Ragna until Remix Heart became a thing, and even then he was only involved in a fraction of it. The lion's share of events unfolded with zero input from him whatsoever. That's five and a half plot threads, four of which have significant connections to the BlazBlue story at large. One of those helps characterize a character strongly linked to Ragna, and another is critical. BlazBlue is a story about the Azure, its champions, and its corrupters, not The Trials, Tribulations, and Endless Suffering of Ragna the Bloodedge. And if the BlazBlue story continues past Ragna's death, Makoto has very strong connections to just about every viable candidate to his replacement (Jin, Noel and Tsubaki are the frontrunners, of course). Your argument is invalid. He may just be a sempai to her kohai, a point of which had not been fleshed out in Remix Heart. Still, fascinating. I share your sentiments of wanting to burrow into this particular rabbit hole. I wonder where I can see this Library without the game, seeing as I only have Nintendo consoles, PS One notwithstanding.

I wouldn't be 100% certain about Makoto's role ending just like that. People seem to lose track of a few things about her, and if Mori has demonstrated something in CPX, it's that he can go back and bring events to light that help expand presumed-forgotten characters (Litchi and Roy, anyone?). Let's see what we know and don't know so far. Aside from her Academy friends and whoever else she met thus far, who was Makoto most "in it" for? Let's jog your memory: "Meh. I should quit bitching. A job's a job. Can't help out the family just sitting on my tail." Just because Makoto's been more focused on her friends' well-being doesn't mean that her family's been out of her mind, and with Doomsday having gone down, trying to figure out just what happened to them is going to take some manner of priority in her mind. The only reason she wouldn't think about them is if she knows deep down that they're dead, which isn't something that's very likely unless it's explicitly spelled out to her. "Impressive. Surprisingly so! Suddenly, Colonel Clover's interest in you seems much less... 'random and untoward', shall we say?" The only reason I can see Relius not focusing on Makoto in any significant capacity during CP is if acquiring the Lynchpin was achievable in the short term: if he could pull that off, then even Makoto's soul would be beneath his concern, but since that option was denied him, he'd likely plan for the longer term with intent to incorporate her somehow. With him being broken and hooked on Carl and Litchi's leash at the end, I'd like to believe he's on the level, but with everything he did in the past, there's a part of me that just knows better. He'd be all for dealing with Izanami, however; the question left is what happens to everyone else when he does. Arcade commentary took a turn for the canon when Lambda pointed out in her CPX commentary that she was starting to remember her "CS alternate path" after facing off against Makoto. So what else was said about her that didn't have to do with the villains, her friends or her appearance? "Target has a strong resistance to seithr... Surrounding seithr eroding at a rate of 0.2%." "To think there are souls in this world as pure as yours. I suggest you cherish that rare commodity, for the sake of us all..." "Fascinating technique. I am sure you will be able to save your friend. I shall watch you from the shadows." Bang may be somewhat questionable, but we have two of the Six Heroes interested in her potential, and not only does she actually have a noted seithr degeneration rate, but it is also noted as being lower than normal, something even nihilistic Mu-12 stated in CS ("Target's resistance to seithr exceeds established parameters. Executing research protocols..."). On top of that, her soul was pulled into the Boundary and returned completely intact; Rachel can vouch for that, and Makoto remembering that particular event during Chronophantasma Chapter 9 confirms that Slight Hope is canon (for those who forget, she mentions it just before Tsubaki shows up). There's also unwritten potential given what Makoto has managed to accomplish in Arcade Mode before Takamagahara wrote it out: she nearly pretzelled Terumi's entire plot singlehandedly (for a second time at that) had it not been for his sudden appearance earlier than normal in CS Arcade, and it was enough to make him focus on killing her instead of Jin in the latter's CS story (he changed gears to killing Jin when it was clear he wasn't going to bullshit his way out of this one); and she managed to make Mind Eater lapse in CP Arcade, something not even Jin could accomplish (Tsubaki could only think one line worth of genuine thought in Jin's CP Arcade, whereas she has a speaking line in Makoto's), and that possibility was real enough that Hades: Izanami explicitly intervened just to deny a repeat ("Makoto Nanaya, was it? My desire, which I wish for all things in the universe: death." is not something Tsubaki would say in a million years). What do you think she's capable of doing, now that Takamagahara is permanently offline? Lastly, there's her backstory. While Noel and Tsubaki warrant that we know what she did during her Academy years, everything before that is something we know almost jack shit about. What we do know is that it was far from pretty (if her bad ending has her breaking down in record time just from reliving it, it simply cannot be casual racism, and if Amane's Astral is any indication, something happened to make her life take a turn for the "Grade-F Fertilizer" shit), and that she hadn't fully recovered before attending the Academy (she was much nastier for the lion's share of Heart to Heart). There's also Kagura's implied relationship: while the obvious train of thought is a date or a one-night stand, he could be bringing it up to see if she had overcome the whole thing, but since he was introduced piss-drunk with a floozy running out the door, there was no conceivable way anyone could initially expect deeper meaning from that statement. Also keep in mind that she likes Kagura, but hates his lechery, and the discussion implies that they are at least familiar with each other. Finally, if the translations for the CF teaser are correct, Makoto is no stranger to fighting dirty. I doubt that'd be something of concern at the Military Academy, but that only leaves the question of just what could conceivably warrant such familiarity with pragmatic combat. That is WAY too much foreshadowing and sidethreading for a mere side character, let alone one made from the dregs of writing another character as a lesbian. Mori may have originally designed Makoto like that, but she ballooned out from there into a more significant player than most realize. If there's anything my observations of Makoto's story have taught me, as well as Mori's statements in general, it's that the truth is almost never what's shown at face value. Dollars to brain cells suggest Mori has plans to make her a major player before the BlazBlue era comes to a close (just because Ragna's story is coming to an end doesn't mean for sure that the era will), unless he is a complete hack or has it in for her (she's one of the most popular girls in BlazBlue, if not Arc System Works as a whole, so the latter seems unlikely).

Should probably do something about that. Of course, since we know what the characters say to Hibiki, I wonder what the reverse is like, if it's even there. By the by, does anyone know where the ENG Library notes for the characters are? For research, of course.

You do remember that Mu = Noel now, right? Check that quote.

Fascinating. Who'd have thought they would have set up dialogue for him? Maybe next time around, if ever. Still, I wonder what Hakumen meant when he said that Hibiki "lacks the power to create change". How does one define that? Kinda funny that Noel, Litchi and Makoto all agree that Kagura needs to put it back in his pants.

Fuckin' sweet that you managed to get all this in such a short time. And it looks like Lambda's gag reel may have some link to canon; pay attention to what she's saying about Makoto.

An analyst's work is never done. If you only deal in facts, then you leave yourself open to be blindsided by possibilities you chose to overlook. I'm not afraid of a little egg in my face, especially if the author (in this case, Mori) is the one throwing it. And I appreciate that you stated your reasons for liking Makoto; mine happen to involve deciphering the roundness of her character that others tend to overlook, seeing all the threads that can connect to her future, even if said threads lead to her past instead. The way I see it, she has a greater role in affairs than many realize, especially if the villains have to act just to keep her out of their affairs. That she does more with less is icing on the cake. But enough about sentiment; it's time to deal with some arguments. The problem with this first one is that you act like the events of Remix Heart are weightless to canon, despite the fact that its elements (namely Mai and Taro) were referenced in Chronophantasma, and that several elements of the Phase 0 novels were also integrated into Chronophantasma proper. While we filthy Westerners may not get the whole story without aid from fan translators (like Emma, bless her soul) or an Arcsys localization team, does that mean we should ignore it until it appears? Nein. The same applies to gameplay - the goal of a game designer, if story and gameplay are to coexist, is to have the story elements present in the gameplay, and vice versa. Compromises are to be expected for the sake of balance, especially in a competitive fighting game, but I get the suspicion Makoto is more... integrated between them than many of the other characters due to having fewer combat-viable story breakers to excise. And having a fighting strategy in real time against the enemy is not something that is easily depicted in any plot without slowing the fight to a crawl - no plan survives contact with the real world, after all. And besides, if Makoto doesn't think or have a plan to win a fight, why would Jin trust her to go first against Tsubaki in Chronophantasma Chapter 14? Then again, if she was primarily trained in an athletic and combat-centered regiment in the Academy, if she doesn't think or have a plan to win, how did she graduate on time? As for Miss Tsubaki, yes, Makoto wants to draw her attention. But doing so with a regiment at Tsubaki's back borders on the realm of stupidity, don't you think? An Intelligence officer without something resembling common sense isn't going to remain an Intelligence officer for very long. As for Hazama and Relius, ja, she hasn't overlooked how dangerous they are, and in Hazama's own CP Arcade, not only did Hazama start the fight ("Perhaps you should share Tsubaki's fate."), but when affairs went sour she chose to cut her losses and run. And yet, she doesn't run into Hazama in any Story in Chronophantasma proper. He seems to have this dreadful habit of thinking that a person's power is what makes them dangerous despite the fact she caused his plans to crumble once and nearly managed to do so a second time. As for Relius, we really don't need to discuss him except for the fact that his primary goal requires using Kushinada's Lynchpin and Rettenjo for his own ends to backstab his compatriots and usurp the Master Unit in the aftermath; if he can advance those plans on the spot, then even Makoto's soul is beneath his concern. And tell me: neither of them ran into her in the Chronophantasma story (in fact, she went after him to keep him off Bang and to buy time for Ragna, Noel and Celica to thwart Take-Mikazuchi), whereas they were both upon her in Continuum Shift proper, where they had the ability to witness Takamagahara's observations. Relius might be able to make out her soul like a sore thumb, but even his sight has limits; as for Hazama, what Intelligence work do we see him doing for someone besides himself? I wanted to nullify your "Makoto can't use ars magus" argument first and foremost, as that was factually incorrect; glad to see you accepted that. As for Bullet, keep in mind Nu's post-combat commentary puts her at "declining below C" - keep in mind Amane was set to B and Azrael to A, meaning that if they were as combat capable, Amane would be A- at worst with Azrael at S. I won't argue where Makoto ranks, as neither Nu nor Lambda talk about her combat grade in any capacity (CP might change this for Lambda - we need some translations to know for sure), but we do know that in CS Lambda graded Bang at A due to his Nox Nyctores. Worth keeping in mind. Yes, we know Bullet works as a mercenary. But the "many wars" she has attended aren't exactly elaborated upon. Also, keep in mind she was benched due to injuries in a previous mission when her squadron went to Naobi and got slaughtered. Those "many wars" could be small skirmishes or Ikaruga-grade for all we're told, with opponents ranging from small fries to fully-armed squadrons, and there's no telling how long she was benched, either. Hopefully that gets more fully fleshed out, as I can't place Bullet's combat prowess with such scant details and obscene variance. It's also why I can't wager who'd more reliably win between her and Makoto. As for Makoto avoiding a fight, you have to understand a couple of things during the Academy days. First, if Jin is relieved that Makoto chose not to pick a fight, and that she could rightfully say the bullies couldn't do anything to her, then beating all three of them up by herself is easier than smacking a baby (not that she'd stoop that low). Second, and arguably more importantly, there was this long-standing stereotype that beastkin are animals, and a cornered animal is very prone to baring fang and biting back; if Makoto were to retaliate, she'd be proving it right on top of getting herself more than a three-day suspension. I suspect that if you add Relius' little revelation on top of that, that incident was more of the same for her, and something she just couldn't run away from outside the Academy. Of course, as I said earlier, it all ties into her pre-Academy backstory, which we know next to jack about. The degree of risk her family came under? The issue of racism-induced atrocities? House Hazuki's hand in aforementioned atrocities? The source of her scholarship? Kagura seeing more in her than the big titties? All up in the air, but with how fiercely she's willing to protect her friends, I'm willing to risk my reputation on at least constant high risk and at least one bout of ethnic cleansing. And you're saying that it's only my opinion that Makoto's a better fighter than Tsubaki and Noel. In Slight Hope, as I said, Rachel explicitly recreated the appearance and battle abilities of one of the girls, and Makoto pretty much wipes it out without a moment's hesitation. She also lays out both of them in CS Arcade - in a row, I should remind you - and Noel was knocked out so thoroughly that Hazama basically had no choice but to intervene lest Takamagahara reset on him. Makoto and Noel don't fight each other from there on out, except maybe in some sparring session we're not privy to. Tsubaki is steamrolled in CP Arcade and Story, and her uncharacteristic behavior towards Makoto in her own CP Arcade suggests she may have been intervened upon by Izanami during that encounter and Chronophantasma Chapter 9 - the latter being explicitly demonstrated with Izanami's shadow alongside Tsubaki. I suspect that without said intervention, Tsubaki didn't stand a chance against Makoto. As was once said in a different series, "power alone is not enough to counter evil. You must possess an even stronger will to guide that power towards good". Even with her newfound spine, Noel is still easily bent out of shape for all the power she possesses as the Successor to the Azure - if she had the kind of will to use her power right, would she have ceded the privileges to summon the Master Unit as easily as she had, deception notwithstanding? As for Tsubaki, her will is unbending for what she believes is right, but she also grew up in an ivory tower and was led to believe the Imperator is always right; it's not until the events of Continuum Shift that said beliefs came into question, which reveals that she lacks the will to define right and wrong for herself in the face of the conflict of interest. On the other hand, Makoto has faced these paradoxes and stood firm despite overwhelming pressure, but also judged when her own well-being superseded any short-term gain. But I honestly have to question you now, as you act like Relius dismissing Makoto in Sector Seven was a sign that Mori was throwing all of Makoto's potential away. You see, that's the kind of mistake committed by hacks like Stephanie Meyer; I've known people who got mad and nearly ragequit the BlazBlue story when Litchi jjoined the NOL, which suggested that he was doing that exact same thing to her, and yet here we are with Kokonoe's CPX story investigating her connection with Roy, who is an important part in Litchi's own personal saga. Just like with that long-standing loose thread, Mori may believe that vanilla Chronophantasma may not be the proper time to expand on Makoto's pre-Academy backstory. Who knows - what if we get a deeper glimpse of it during one of the other extra stories? When I made my last post, I didn't know that Bullet was going to get her own CPX story, and that could make her more bearable at large. I can say with confidence that Makoto's story will be explored because, and let's be honest, there will be no victory for the protagonists if the world goes right back to tearing itself a new asshole the instant Izanami is deposed, and ending the race war could go a long way towards preventing that possibility; with Kokonoe of questionable morality and Valkenhayn and Jubei possibly on their way out, it has to be a beastkin from the younger generation that leads the charge, and with Taokaka too carefree to take any lasting responsibility and the story too far along to believably introduce another beastkin of significance, the matter has to be resolved by Makoto herself.

For someone who says Makoto's one of their favorite characters, you seem to be skewing more towards Bullet than you would otherwise imply. I wouldn't have a problem with this if some of the things you say about Bullet aren't fabricated out of nothing; I may theorize about Makoto, but I try to keep it plausible. Asteroid Vision? I think we saw a facsimile of it in Remix Heart Chapter 5, so that argument just disappeared. It may be me, but a number of Makoto's abilities translate between story and gameplay, which is odd given Mori's track record. And here we are at the 'reckless' argument again. I gave an instance where Bullet clearly acted where the gains were not worth the effort and instances where Makoto both chose to cut her losses and where to remain involved in which the gains were worthwhile (to Makoto, the well-being of her friends is worthwhile). How all that went in one ear and out the other with you I'll never know. The difference between a quick thinker and a reckless person is that the quick thinker has an exit strategy based off of what they know, whereas the reckless person doesn't (Azrael being a prime example of recklessness as you said). Using the Tsubaki issue as an example, Makoto did want to be noticed by Tsubaki, but tried to cover her tracks around everyone else; the reason Tsubaki found her first was because Kagura explicitly tipped Tsubaki off. And Makoto's plan was to bring Tsubaki back to NOL Kazamotsu, peaceably if possible, which doesn't rely on who finds whom first. Her whole speech was tailored to Tsubaki's sentiments to most efficiently carry out this task, and I suspect the only reason it failed was because Izanami explicitly intervened (the omniscient supercomputer that intervenes with reality is not something the average person would know about). "Makoto doesn't have the capability of Ars Magus"? Really? What part of "Her ars magus aptitude is average, but her physical tests are off the charts" flew right over your head? Also, Makoto used a ventilation ars to protect herself from five years' worth of pent-up seithr ("After the destruction of Ibukido, the cauldron gates were closed and sealed so that seithr should not seep into our world", straight from the squirrel's mouth) - that, coupled with her 0.2% seithr erosion rate (ask Lambda-11 (CS) or Nu-13 (CP) in Arcade mode), should strongly imply that her mission to Ibukido was intended to be a suicide mission. Of course, Makoto's seithr resistance could also impair her ability to use ars magus; no matter how adept she may be at formulating it, she may simply be drawing in too little to sufficiently power it. On that note, do we even know what Bullet's ars magus aptitude is? Also, do we have a backlog of what Bullet has been doing since she got off the bench after Azrael genocided her squadron? Just because she has experience doesn't mean it's worthwhile experience. Likewise, all we know about Makoto's mission history was that Ibukido was her last suicide mission (if not the only one), after which Hazama decided plausible deniability wasn't going to cut it with her anymore. And that's not including her training regimen at the Academy, let alone her pre-Academy backstory which, barring her sour mood in Heart to Heart and the glimpses Relius gives us in that bad ending, we know absolutely jack about. Who's to say Makoto didn't have to help fend off a round or two of ethnic cleansing? Given how much she puts her family and friends' well-being above her own if push comes to shove, I'd have to say she had to deal with at least one. Likewise, do we even know Bullet's rank within the mercenary hierarchy, let alone her own squadron? How can you say she outranks Makoto if we don't even know that much? Further, what's the point of using military ranks to compare characters' combat abilities anyway? The "Almighty Janitor" trope exists for a reason - Hazama and Relius are villain-grade, Jin is the shonen rival, and Kagura would have been the war hero Jin was if he hadn't other obligations, so they get a pass, but in case you forgot this "noncombat officer" is known to be a better fighter than at least two combat officers superior to her in both rank and ars magus aptitude, so that argument doesn't hold water, either. As for the compliments, limiting ourselves to the Six Heroes, Valkenhayn is expected to be cordial and complimentary to those around him, so you may get a pass with him, but Hakumen is not beholden to those rules, speaks his mind whether he is welcome to it or not, and that he is still impressed with Makoto despite the immense power gap should say enough already. And I told you how difficult to please Rachel was. I'm willing to take what those two say with greater weight because they're so hard to please, so I don't understand where "character overstatement" plays into the equation, especially when feats can be linked to advantages we are otherwise not privy to. And while we're outside the fourth wall by this point, BlazBlue monkeys with anime tropes to its own discretion, meaning any expectations based on gender and medium are a crapshoot at best. Further, Makoto consistently ranks higher than Bullet on the popularity polls (the two most recent polls had Makoto sixth amongst all BlazBlue characters (to Bullet's ninth) and third amongst all Arcsys ladies (outranked by Noel and Dizzy alone, while Bullet didn't make the top five)), and Makoto has stronger connections to the overall plot while Bullet is only linked through Kokonoe and Tager (mostly the latter), so that's a lot more fans Mori stands to piss off if Makoto jobs to Bullet. While Mori being contrary for the sake of riling up his fans is why I refuse to call the match straight in either girl's favor, I'm sure even he knows there are lines you just don't cross unless you're intent on torpedoing your company's consumer base. I'm going to level with you. The only two things I hate about Bullet are not her fault; those would be [A] how her more insane fan zealots love blowing her character out of proportion (questioning your sanity with this is why I went on this campaign in the first place) and how little potential for characterization she was given out of the Chronophantasma newcomers. Point B can also be said for Azrael, which when you think about it is the greater crime; so much of the newcomer share was given to Kagura and Celica that the rest of them had to feud over the scraps, and that what was supposed to be our introduction to the world of mercenaries in BlazBlue and our sneak peek at greater Sector Seven's operations are so underdeveloped as characters is particularly tragic, and we're left wondering if they will actually mean more than their limited roles will allow. While Amane had little overt characterization, he still has greater potential due to that air of mystery and intrigue, which leaves Bullet and Azrael in the dust. That said, said lack of potential makes it hard to like her in turn, leaving her as "meh" all around from my viewpoint, which only makes the zealotry even worse. And didn't Makoto pant a little after her two-stage fight with Tsubaki in CP Arcade? She does have a limit, but she comes back pretty quick. And you ignored the part where I mentioned Relius had experience with Valkenhayn; he could carry on the fight, but it would be very unlike him to be so wasteful; the fight was an experiment to see how her soul held up under brute pressure, and once Relius was done with that, he advanced to the next phase in the manner he saw as most efficient.

I think it's time I throw my two cents in. As GameSins pointed out, Makoto and Tager reliably tie with each other. Makoto did win the CS Arcade fight, but she did concede that Tager was stronger than the stories indicated. In CP Arcade, each of them has a win, but in CS Story mode, Kokonoe interrupted the fight before a winner could be decided ("Cut it out, both of you! That's enough, damnit!"). As for how she'd fare against Azrael, signs point towards "no", but all we really know is that Kokonoe said that Makoto can't handle a simultaneous encounter with Azrael and Nu-13. One or the other? Maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Both? In your dreams. I wouldn't say Izayoi's all that weak, seeing as while it was made to kill Observers, the Observed, and other theoretically immortal beings, it could still work on those below that level who do not possess the power of order (Jin stated, both the night before the fight and right after it, that the Immortal Breaker is useless against him). We never got to see it used on anyone other than him, but Story mode and Arcade mode (Tsubaki's CP notwithstanding) shows that without intervention, Tsubaki doesn't have a prayer of defeating Makoto, Zero-Type or otherwise. Since Hakumen stated that the power of order is akin to one's own willpower, though functioning on different levels, Makoto may be resistant to its power (someone who can jump between timelines without consequence is no pushover). As for the fight with Relius, Makoto wasn't exhausted, but she did note that her hits weren't registering before Ignis bound her. We don't know where her physical limit is, but Relius knew that pushing her there was an exercise in attrition, which is why he had her bound while he experimented with her soul. Keep in mind that in Bloodedge Experience, Relius and Valkenhayn were partners, so he knows some things about how beastkin tick. Compare to Hazama, who could cut her down with overwhelming force, but beyond that literally can't do anything to her that's worse than what she's been through already unless Ouroboros is liberally used. As for Kagura, Makoto is fast, true, but you have to keep in mind that she's also a competent spy, and would be at least familiar with basic rules of concealment. If she knew she was being pursued by NOL officers, she would try to blend in or cover her tracks until she could verify if they were Main Branch or Ibukido; rather than act directly to retrieve her, Kagura forwarded her information to Tsubaki as a diversion, and chose to strike while the iron was hot. ("Even if it's Makoto, give them a day and they'll narrow down her location. Catching her, though... that's something different.") Also, how many times has Hazama found her by surprise without relying on blind luck or stolen foreknowledge? Can't say it's a large number if the magnitude of Intel faux pas in Slight Hope is any indication. Freak_Show is somewhat correct that Makoto's prowess is complimented, but the ones who do are usually the ones who are in the position to make that kind of call. In Story mode, Rachel explicitly calls her "a fighter of no little savagery" if she bests Tsubaki (knowing how hard Rachel is to please, that says a lot), whereas in Arcade mode commentary she is complimented by Bang, Hakumen and Valkenhayn - one ninja with a questionable choice in apprentices and two of the Six friggin' Heroes. Also, there's the matter of souls. With Bullet, we can only presume it's milquetoast; she is known to wield an incendiary armagus, which makes it safe to guess that it's the source of her Drive, and aside from her connection to Tager she's not even a blip on Relius' radar. Makoto, on the other hand, is the real deal; we know Relius' story with it, but Hakumen also brings it up in his CP Arcade commentary ("To think there are still souls in this world as pure as yours. I suggest you cherish that rare commodity, for the sake of us all..."). With Bloodedge Experience referencing that Drives are the power of a soul made manifest by the Azure, coupled with how little we know of Makoto's tonfas compared to every other weapon in the series and the fact she was never seen with them during her Academy years, I suspect that Makoto's Drive has less to do with her tonfas and more to do with her. And you're calling Makoto 'reckless'? Reckless is attacking an innocent doctor on naught but a hunch she knows someone's whereabouts ("How are you not in jail already?"). Reckless is fighting a losing battle where the losses outweigh the gains ("Ungh... this is... not good...! *runs*"). And last I recall, Makoto was aware that she was going to be attacked or killed if she went after Tsubaki; she even warned Noel of such herself (you'd think either Kokonoe or Kagura would tell Makoto up-front about the spell Tsubaki's under, or have Tager tip her off as a Plan B, but BlazBlue Mentorhood 101 apparently equates to "Tell your student not to invoke phenomenon X, but don't explain to them how phenomenon X works" - Rachel at least makes the goddamn effort sometimes, but not Kokopuffs). Bringing up Slight Hope again, between the files in Ibukido, escorting a wounded man towards the place he didn't want to go, and Hazama's off-hand comment, Makoto suspected that Relius was moving Jin away as bait for her, and the ending is dependent on how she deals with the resulting trap - the true ending works on the sound logic that she needs to account for all of her friends at once and utilize the resources available to her to that end. Likewise, when Hazama tries to coerce Tsubaki to go after Jin before he runs into Ragna, Makoto explicitly chose to stay behind; "Combat's not really my forte, so I'll sit this one out" was something Makoto knew from firsthand experience was bullshit, and leaving him unaccounted for would leave at least one of them dead, and if nothing else, Tsubaki might have a ghost of a chance of getting Jin up to lend a hand so they can go after Ragna together. Tsubaki was Hazama's last chance to off Jin (if he killed Tsubaki, Nu would gladly do the dirty work of killing Jin for him), and Makoto choosing to forestall him completely scuttled it. Are these the kinds of things a reckless person could manage? I doubt it. And that's not going into the possibilities of what could have happened had Hazama and Izanami left her alone. Makoto had a plan going into Friendship, which while somewhat compromised due to Noel forgetting her advice and Tsubaki not questioning the nature of the orders she received from Hazama still went off as Makoto planned up until Hazama showed up and pulled Noel away. Had Makoto been allowed to stay with Noel for more than a few moments, Hazama would either need fresh mindrape material or he'd have to kiss Kusanagi goodbye, and that's if Takamagahara didn't just reset outright. In Bonds, Tager was a slight hiccup, but Tsubaki couldn't weather Hurricane Makoto on her own. Even with the Zero-Type, Makoto's prowess and determination caused Mind Eater to lapse; logic would denote that if she felt Tsubaki was fighting something from within, she would seek help in getting rid of it for good if she felt she couldn't manage it on her own. Doesn't it strike you as odd that not only does Makoto come closer to inflicting long-term damage to the villains' plots than the other protagonists' solo efforts, but the villains make an active effort just to prevent a repeat of that possibility? Again, not something a reckless person could manage, and damn impressive for someone who was never told about the brainwashing. Also, considering the fighting styles of the ladies in question, Bullet is mostly reliant on straight, in-your-face combat, emphasizing grappling over strikes; while Makoto emphasizes strikes primarily, the techniques at her disposal are meant to punish, surprise and confuse attackers, meaning her art utilizes mind games as well - messing with people's expectations. So who's supposed to be more tactical again? Freak_Show might be giving Makoto too much credit, but GameSins, gives too little. I can't really make a clean call on who wins this one, but the point I'm trying to make is clear: don't count Makoto out.

You know, that begs the question: how does one SEVER a lifelink? There has to be some element that serves as an antimatter to the equation, to ensure that one side of it stays dead. I wonder if the Izayoi has anything to do with that... or if Mori is keeping things from us on purpose.

Eh, that's just Rachel being Rachel. We saw her dissect Noel in CT commentary, too. That's one thing that doesn't change about her - if you want her opinion on you, do not expect a filter to go with it. I had ruled that as a possibility, considering we saw other things influenced by intervention in Arcade mode as well.

I was actually wondering what happened with all that. Still, don't you find it odd that Bullet's commentary with Valkenhayn is at odds with her behavior towards him in Arcade mode? With Makoto vs Izayoi, the commentary for the latter could be taken as her being Tsubaki instead of a sword for Izzy as in the Arcade event. What's Bullet's excuse?

http://deadspike.dreamwidth.org/379.html http://deadspike.dreamwidth.org/1550.html http://deadspike.dreamwidth.org/3528.html Here's plenty, but the third page is incomplete. Also not my work, but it's the best I've found on such short notice.

You know, this thread and the project have been moribund for two months at least. I wonder what happened...

Well, today was a busy day, but I'm glad folks got back on this. And hello, Yazu - welcome to the party. I'm aware that race hate doesn't just disappear overnight - it wasn't that long ago in our world where we had a civil rights movement of our own to deal with (in the US, anyway). As for Kagura, I was banking on him getting the ball rolling in the human sector (remember, CP14), with Makoto as the exemplar. I have no idea if the current heads of Houses Kisaragi or Yayoi would comply (though Jin and Tsubaki aren't averse to the notion if their time with Makoto is any indication), but something tells me that House Hazuki is going to be the odd one out. And I doubt Makoto would willingly assist Relius at the drop of a hat, if that's what you're thinking. He could try to bargain with the protagonists (his aid in unmaking Izanami and the Embryo in exchange for assistance in restoring Ada and Roy to his specifications), or he could try to make a move of his own, with the protagonists being diverted into stopping him. Do you honestly think a soul that's "focused, yet pointing in multiple directions" is something he'd realistically give up on if it helps his research? I mean, Relius has fixed encounters with Makoto in CS and CP Arcade for this very reason; you'd think he'd want to see it through. Wouldn't be the first time I did so. And it seems "Ambassador Nanaya" is a viable possibility if three people (four if we include Angry Guy) approve of it within the first twenty-four hours. We'll see if Mori is thinking the same thing. ...Wait, Zepp isn't interested in Makoto's potential fate and/or role in the series? Or is it nobody talks about it?