Bluewindz

I agree, but if used as an oki and it hits, definitely a big wtf moment!! lol

You can puffball through his lightening bolt spam. FB would be better. Just wait for the animation and FB for a free combo.

Please refer to the first post in this thread by FlashMetroid. If you need further assistance, please specify your inquiry. -Bluewindz

LOL, what I meant to say was combo starters or pokers or whatever you call it. Moves to initiate an attack. I'm glad you are enjoying the material in this thread. Although I do not have as much time as I would like to really dive into some of the material, here is and there is fine I guess. As for a really good way to end 6P, S, H, 6H>H. I would say after your 5HS, where she hits 3 times, you can actually FB puffball after that into a wall combo instead of wasting a RC. You have to practice a little bit to get the timing down and if done right, counts towards your beats/combo. Then just refer to FlashMetroid's post in the other thread for wall combos. Adjust accordingly to height/weight, and number of beats that your opponent has already taken. Max damage wall combos always start with 2HS (1hit). Sometimes 6HS, HS if you hit them with a charged Ryujinn.

Post 102 Go.... I want to talk about playing conditions today. Physiologically of a player is important. 7 things On average, a human being can memorize in their short term memory, 7 things before they start to lose track. In Guilty Gear terms, that can be like seven attacks. So when your opponents start to counterattack you move after move or air throw you constantly and you are like WTF?? You might be too predictable. Human beings can pseudo go beyond that limitation of 7 things by grouping memories together. So for an example, in GG terms, instead of memorizing an attack pattern out to 7 moves like attack: A, B, C, D, A, A, B. They can store in their short term memory 7 chunks of data. So in GG terms: Attack Pattern 1: A, A, B, B, C, C, D, D, E Attack Pattern .... Attack Pattern 7: A, B, C, D, A, D, E, A, A Although not every player is equal, on average, 7 is the limit. So what is needed in a match to increase the success rate of effectively mixing a player up is the usage of more than 7 attack patterns. That is where knowing Jam's gatlings is important. I will go over some things which I am sure many people already know, but just in case. Lets begin with some openers: 1. IAD 214K 2. IAD j.p 3. IAD j.HS 4. IAD 236P - used before an opponent or as a quick landing tool when you get behind an opponent. 5. Dash into 6P 6. Dash into 5K 7. Dash into 6HS 8. Dash into Throw 9. 2D So that's 9 right there. Use them in a match. Most people only use 4 or 5. Why? Because based on experience, people tend to use moves that they have had success with and not use moves that got them punished. So for example, when people first started playing Jam, there's move A and move B. They would use A 50% of the time and move B 50% of the time. Over time, move A would connect more/do more damage, whatever. So they use move A 75% and B 25%. Over time, the ratio might look like A 95% and B 5%. That is an example of players being predictable. So the idea is to overload your opponents short term memory. Real life example, there is a few players in my area that uses around 4 or 5 attack patterns. Since I seem it and the such, and it's below 7, I block it all because I memorized it. Then they do not understand why they lost. I tell them, then they say it is a habit. To break a habit, place limiters like you cannot use certain moves during matches to get over it quick. I know for sure, Jam has a lot of variety. That variety might be maxed at 7 or 8, but it's better than using 4 or 5 patterns. Muscle Memory Muscles can remember motions/movement and can react before the brain does. So when you charge in and attack, your opponent might not be able to react fast enough, but their muscles might. The may counter you instantly and you may go WTF?!?! (well I don't lol!) This is because based on their experience, the muscles records a specific reaction to your attack, the timing and the movement needed to counter your attack. If you continually charge in at the same pace, you will be countered by ..not the opponent, but by the opponent's muscle memory. To avoid this pitfall, vary your rhythm or pace of attack. This is the same idea as when players are put on the defensive, they double jump to throw off your rhythm and get you to either miss your attack or to create an opportunity for them to attack you. So you may want to feint an attack, or do a double jump yourself before rushing in from the air. Randomize your pace of attack. A creative way to sync your movements is to play a sporadic song in your head and attack ever 4th beat or whatever. The downfall to muscle memory is that when your muscles remembers a certain action to counter your attack, it is often very hard to not do that reaction again and falls prey to feinting. An example is when you are charging in from the ground. The opponent usually expects you to charge right in, but you suddenly instant stop and do something else. Fighting Theory Perfect Play Like in real life, in theory, the first one to attack usually has the disadvantage because you open yourself up for a counter attack. In GG terms, best possible action is to not move. If your opponent attacks you, you can Slash Back or Instant Block and counter. With Jam, you can parry. In fact, Jam should be happy that the opponent is attack her in theory fighting. If an opponent moves forward, you have the advantage of striking/throwing first because your opponent is moving forward. If your opponent moves back, you can move forward capturing more territory and eventually forcing your opponent in the corner. In reality, Jam is much faster than most characters. So instant blocking is pretty crucial for Jam to open up her opponent. I strongly believe that Jam is the last character you learn in GG after you learned all the other characters because she has a move called "parry". I would imagine you would pick her just to parry everything and laugh. Common Mistakes 1. Dropping a combo 2. Misjudging the height/weight of your opponent, thus only getting two loops on your wall combo 3. Not maximizing your damage opportunity by either going for an easier combo or not using the best possible move in a situation. 4. Charging in recklessly 5. No variety, No mix up, No throws 6. Using tension for offense and not defense 7. Not willing to use 50 or 75% tension bar to create an opportunity to win, ie RC and DA ie. your opponent is in the corner, you hit them with 5K, 5S, 5HS, 6HS, HS. Would you charge? Prepare for oki? Or would you... RC out of HS follow up to wall combo them for the finish. Don't die with your opponent at less than 5 points of health. 8. Not charging 9. Over use of one move/attack pattern 10. Not using your tension bar when you are 75% or full. Don't die with full tension bar. 11. Thinking offense is the best defense always in every situation. 12. Trading damage. 13. Not knowing what moves can be punished 14. Bad Burst 15. Random charge in the middle of a crucial moment Stupid Stuff IAD 236K - great way to surprise someone who thinks they know where you are going, if they wall bounce, you can FB puffball them into a huge wall combo.

The dragon pillar (I like that name) surprise could be helpful. We should definitely start a topic on ways to land the dragon pillar attack, and then FC the thing for 80%-95% life bar. Most likely used for whiff punishment. The only attack I can think of is Sol's whiffed dragon punches. There a window of opportunity when he lands, you run in and execute the command, letting the stopping motion slide you into position.

I never tried that.

Lots of practice. Vary the input speed until you get the timing right and then practice the input timing.

Building off of what ky0n01 mentioned, you can use that against Dizzy's projectile setups, Testament's traps. I don't really have time to start topics or provide analysis, but I can reply to posts. If you're reading this post, you're probably looking for ways to win. If you are looking for ways to win, take the zero system and run with it. Might take you over 50+ hours of practice to get the timing down, but why not? If you are a player that has run into a wall in regards to improvement, most of you might be at the stage of best practices or character specific tactics. Can you do both versions of an air mixup RC? the ground route is easy, but air dashing after a RC requires some practice. I think ZS mixed in with limiters is a way to go. Also just doing a setup well. Like 2D into followups. Doing simple things well.

Controlling the flow of the match is very important for Jam since she does not have the range. When your opponent reacts to your moves, that is when you have control. From there, you control the pace of the match. Feinting also establishes control. A good one is when you are attacking, you do IAD 236P to drop down to the ground.

FB puffball if you see an opening. If you hit him, his trees go away. He's open when ever he summons his beast. Watch him closely for him setting up his traps. His tree trap is very subtle, so watch for it. There is this one attack where he goes low and follows up with a low scythe, you can 6HS that before his first hit and go into ground combo. 6P cancel into stuff.

I think throwing this out there can win a round. Say you are at the end of your block string, you can throw out 6HS RC it and run back in. If you are close to them, like 1muvwndr said, most people would freeze, and I think that's a good thing. Having people freeze and having them do the "wait and see" response gives Jam an opportunity and priority to attack. You can put them in a fuzzy guard situation. Jam's throw is scary because if FRCed, it can lead to at least 40% life. I might save it for better uses depending on my life bar. But if I am one combo away from death, I will go for broke. Sure, there may better moves to RC, but depends on the situation. Going for a specific win scenario is not being flexible. Also why save your tension when there may not be another opportunity to use it. The guard bar that Jam has most likely built up will receive another opportunity to be put to good use. Any comment with my post on j.2k (7 posts before this one)? I'd like to get people's opinion on it.

@Digital Watches: Which string and to which post are you referring to? I'd love to answer, but I am confused, but I'll clear it up later in this post, but I'll assume the 2nd post. If you are referring to the 2nd post, then yes, the string is very well known...and it is extremely useful, that string is the Bread and Butter of Jam's ground combo. Whether it is useful or not, that's why this thread is here, to discuss the pros and cons of a strategy. In that post, instead of thinking about it as a combo, we were looking at that from the point of a string that builds tension. @Xenophobian: I think you were referring to the second post, yeah I know those strings are not useful in most situations, but I just wanted to through my thought process out there for people to read and enjoy. If people are slash-backing the 6HS, what about the variable HS follow-up? What about a RC after the 6HS or HS follow-up? But as for the 6P string, I just wanted to make a point, but in actual in game usage, at most is 2 repetitions with mix-ups of ending it with just one repetition of a HS follow-up or not doing the follow-up and doing something else which instills the suspicion that allows for the 2 repetitions. Sad no one saw my first post....either that or do not want to respond to it...LOL (had a Gundam reference in it). Moving forward: I would encourage people to support their claims and/or take an idea and run with it for the benefit of the community. ie: "I agree/disagree with this because a, b, c..reasons" or "building on that idea, what if..". New topic: What would you do to your opponent if you suddenly had +15 frames (RC 6HS)?

Wanna be a tension whore? 6P,5HS, 6HS, 6P, 5HS, 6HS, dash and repeat. Most people know that if you instant block the 6HS, you can throw. Watch for the flash, if you do not see it, then you can continue, but if you see it, do the HS follow up which will push your opponent far away. IAD 214K, IAD 214K, 236S-S, IAD214K, mix it up. Most people would try to anti-air you, but you can vary the height and length of execute of the Gekirin. A low enough Gekirin is a good feint. Variable distances could mean cross-up, and if you suspect the opponent will anti air, execute it at the earliest time possible and you can clash or hit the outer edges of their hit box for a counter. The other option your opponent has is to wait and see. If you show them a 60% tensionless combo off of counter-hit Gekirin, people would be afraid.

Zero System: I feel like naming it this because (Gundam Wing reference) the timing is exactly 0 frames and it is totally not worth using it unless you have godly control. Anything less than that will hurt you. Today, we are looking at Houeikyaku (j.2K), if executed at the lowest point possible to the ground, upon block, +8 frames. Upon hitting up, takes 3 frames before Jam is considered airborne, from that point after, each frame where 2K is not inputted, the move loses 1 frame accordingly. If done correctly, the opponent cannot block it in time. The downside is the damage is pretty bad, but the upside is that you will be able to continue the pressure if blocked, not sure if it hits (needs testing). Your air cancel-able moves: S.f, S.c, 2D, 6K. (will post gatling list later in main post along with extended analysis.) I will post the corner blocks of the setups. Setup 1: 6P, 6K, 2D or j.2K 6P, 2D 6P, 5S Setup 2: 6K, 5S, j.2K or 6P 6K, 2D, j.2K Setup 2: 5K, 5S, j.2K or 5K, 5S, 2D. 2D cancel-ables: you can cancel out of 2D with 236S-into anything if they block. Will repost main post later in the week.

It is really important to watch whether your opponent blocked normally or instant blocked the attack. I do not know how many frames it cuts the block stun down by, but that would be good to know.

been super busy with work, only had time to glimpse on the threads, wait until weekend.

Things I would like to say at this point for Jam end game that I consider to be very useful. 2D, 236S-K, 236K (card): 2D is a move that gives Jam the longest reach. 5S(far), 2369K (TK ryuujin): The far slash has a lot of priority and it has good range. Spam that shit. j.HS (cross up): This is good, but the follow up options after it, are limited... What do people do when they hit their opponent with this cross up, I find myself usually too far from them to do anything. j.HS (as you jump towards them and attack as low to the ground as possible): This move gets me thrown more than anything. It's good if you can execute it low enough but....

The practicality of full tension burn setups? You can say very little. Did I do a very good job of explaining the concept? No. I agree with xenophobian that you will free style a lot of your pressure. Well I'm in a time crunch, but I'll briefly explain one setup. But the scenario on when this will come up is most likely near the end of the round, both players on very little life and both playing pretty cautiously, you basically have one shot at this, so your tension builds up to max both players dance around being cautious. The moves I listed are just a guide as to where the mix-up should go, like a point of reference. So I'm going to pick the easiest one to explain. Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have 2 ryuujin cards. 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit). 1st Point of contact, 2D (frc, hit): Assuming you hit the frc and the move comes out (active), you have +13 frames to so something cool. If it hit, you just ryuujin your way to victory or whatever. If blocked, you can: 6H - Your opponent must do something 5 frames or less. Throw - most unlikely move since that would be a waste of your 13 frames. Dust - Your dust is now 11 frames, it is now very good. j.P/j.S/j.D - high options. 214K - your startup just went down to 6 frames. Continue to 2nd Point of contact, 2D (frc, hit): Now your opponent should be worried and constipated. (Since it's the same point of contact).. If it hit, you just ryuujin your way to victory or whatever. If blocked, you can: 6H - Your opponent must do something 5 frames or less. Throw - most unlikely move since that would be a waste of your 13 frames. Dust - Your dust is now 11 frames, it is now very good. j.P/j.S/j.D - high options. 214K - your startup just went down to 6 frames. Continue to 3rd Point of contact, 2D (frc, hit): Now your opponent should be Shitting his pants. You guys get the idea. Mix up within a mix up. Just that it's a stronger attack that gives the opponent more opportunities to mess up. It's not for every body. People may win before it even reaches this scenario. But it's there, but I respect people's opinion on the setups not being as useful and there is some truth to that because you should win before it reaches this point. But this is another play style I am working on. So not for everyone.

I agree that people can air throw on reaction, like they can instant block eddie's Mawaru, but people still get hit with that, and that's because in a match, there a lot of other things you have to watch out for and keep in mind. I am not saying that the string is good, shit I never even used the string, but I saw it used. It had a surprise factor or something that is unexpected. Following will go on main post. Full explanation will come later (whenever...I have time...which may be never LOL!!!) on main post. But discussion happens here. The following is the setup framework. Meaning at each point could be another mix-up/leads into another mix-up scenario. Theses are made in mind of ending the match, where opponent has a little bit of life left and you have some tension to burn. Full tension burn mix-ups. Setup: When you are mid striking range from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 2D(frc after active, meaning it can trip opponent), choujin (frc), Houeikyaku (rc). Setup: When you are far away from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 236S-D, 236SD, ryuujin (rc) Setup: When you are mid to close striking range from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 2D, 236S-K, ryuujin (rc), Houeikyaku (rc). Setup: When you are very far away from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 236S-HS (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit), Houeikyaku (rc). Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 6HS (rc), 236S-HS (rc, crossup) Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have a ryuujin card. 236S-HS (rc, crossup), Houeikyaku (rc). Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have 2 ryuujin cards. 236S-K, ryuujin (rc), 236S-K, ryuujin (rc). Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have 2 ryuujin cards. 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit), 2D (frc, hit). Setup: When you are very close striking range from opponent and have 2 ryuujin cards. 2D (frc, hit), 5D (rc), 2D (frc, hit). Depending on the filler/mix-up moves used in the setup, there might be a follow up frc since tension is being built up during the attack. Not sure, what those are yet. Work in progress. But have at it. Make your own analysis and beat me to the punch, if it's good, mind if I use it on main post? Saves me time LOL! ..I'm out of time..more later...

Here's something I came across on: run up, 5k, s.f, 236P, jHS., 5K, s.f., 236P. Still working on updates. Discussion start!!

I guess I should clarify, for example, start with a "what if" and say "what if, I start buffering parry into every single attack I do? or where can I buffer parry? what if? where etc etc. What if my favorite game mechanic is jump install? How can I integrate as much jump install into jam as possible?" That's what I mean. You don't need to have world class experience to contribute, because everyone can make a contribution no matter how big or small. Your question or curiosity may spark the next big idea. That spark could ignite something, that something could change how Jam is played in the competitive field....And all that started from a small curiosity, a small pebble. A small pebble thrown into the pound would cause a ripple effect.

Can anyone volunteer some time to test some stuff? PM me if you can. *yawn*

Very insightful and a good start. An experienced veteran would wait until they knock you down or get far enough from you to summon at least two things or setup a fish offensive. The fish is the most dangerous thing out there before knockdown oki setup. So you would be facing: 1. fish (laser, bite) / fish (laser, laser), with air spike and IAD 2. fish (laser, bite) / fish (laser, laser), with IAD The problem is that the fish acts like a shield for Dizzy. There is a delay before the fish fires and a delay after the first shot transitioning to the second shot. During this, Dizzy can rush you down because of the fish protection or summon another item, most likely air spike. You can: 1. Try to get in before the fish fires off the first shot. 2. Try to get in after the first shot from the fish. 3. Block. If you went for #1. If you think you can make it before the fish fires, you can either run past the fish, or try to destroy it with P/2P, or even try for 6P if Dizzy is close for the 2nd hit to hit Dizzy. If you can't make it, just parry or IB and continue forward with a 5P if you are next to the fish. If you went for #2, you can do 236S to get in, run past the fish, or destroy the fish. If you went for #3, Dizzy has the advantage until you block her full summon cycle. Most good Dizzy players will attack before their summon cycle ends. Why not post it? Why don't you post more? Well I don't know who is reading this forum, but I am guessing a lot, but I am getting sick of listening to myself talk so I am taking a break. Sharing information and having discussions is good. So contribute and don't be a bitch like some people that just take and give nothing back fearing that doing so may make them weaker. In the big picture, the US is nothing compared to the level in Asia. One thing about Jam that you guys don't have to worry about is that Jam isn't a "one-trick pony". Jam is player dependent. If you want to make an analogy, CPU speed is a good one, Sol requires 500 Mhz while Jam requires 1 Ghz. Fast thinking and ability to read the flow of the game, plan and analyze your opponent. If you want to know if your CPU is up to speed, set the computer's block to random. Then see how consistently can you max damage combo off of random hits. To be honest, some people just cannot play Jam because they just do not have the brain processing speed or potential. Or to be more accurate, Jam isn't a good fit. You need to use parry. As for the setup, If someone posts the setup, I will provide a thorough analysis. Speaking of which...I need to work on the analysis section. Or of the many sections still left unfinished. yawn*

I will continue to update this thread on a day to day basis. Looking at the views, I ask, who the hell keeps jacking up the view counter? If you haven't posted but are viewing, send me a personal message. In development is the zero frame high risk low reward setup/attack pattern. I might just send PM that to people instead of posting it, but all the other stuff, I will continue to update. Topic starter: How do you approach Dizzy? Get through all those projectiles?