natearistata

Every time I've ever seen ODR be successful was canceling mid-blockstring, causing a move with decent recovery to whiff entirely and then punishing that, which isn't RCable in the first place. People will get used to it and stop hitting those unsafe buttons and stick with safer pressure if ODR is a particularly big danger.

He screwed around with Hazama as a sub in 1.1 a bit already, but one of Jourdal's most recent videos is apparently Dogura using nu (and getting bodied), and then a couple matches of him using Hazama, which was at 11 Dan I think.

Oh my bad, got the lists mixed up after looking at them.

wow, Dogura is down on Azrael. Surprising.

I'm not going to get too deeply into it, because I'll freely admit I don't like most of Tager's changes and there's no reason to throw my opinion around when it's as negative as it is, but you're looking at it as if every situation in which you can land a 6B, you could've landed 360B, which is untrue. On an unmagnetized opponent, there are ranges in which 360B won't reach that you can hit and get a combo with off of 6B. Not to mention the potential for 6B meaties which will lead to more damage than a 360B if properly confirmed. Regardless of how you look at it, Tager lost an option. I hate losing options that allow for diversity in choice and mix-up. And even though 6B has been relegated to just being a combo normal, it's not even as good at that as it was in CP1, so in my eyes that move got smacked down twice in usefulness.

If you wait, sure. But if you break them out at the same speed, it'll be purple, and it's Tager being in motion that you want out of 6B to scare people into staying where they are. Not to mention that you obviously don't want to be just throwing out a command grab in every situation, that's not mix-up. Fact is, Tager lost a mix-up option to get a move turned purely into a combo tool - and it's not even as good of a combo tool as current 6B is, it's just a combo ender. That hurts no matter how you analyze it. Either way, it wasn't supposed to be an all-encompassing, informative post. It was a dumbass response to a dumbass post.

Because obviously in every single situation that you can get hit by an overhead, you can get a command grab instead. Totally. 100%. He obviously is a master of fighting games and we should listen to him as the god that he is. I mean, so what that in pretty much every situation you'd use 6B, using 360B would get you a purple grab that's the most easily techable thing in the world. Overheads useless if you have a command grab, heard here first in the Tager forums. SPREAD THE WORD

For anyone that hasn't seen yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Mn_Wy0GnI#t=32m35s Azrael can combo a high enough TCL wall bound into 2D > 5A for a double weak point.

Not really derpy, just 'Surely this player is not going to mash into this, so allow me to rapid it to make it safe on block. Oh, he mashed into it. Welp.' Didn't need the rapid for that combo, for sure. I'm too lazy to continue doing timestamps, but things I noticed in today's videos from Jourdal that I can actually remember: - Terra Break now has the same wall bounce-ish property that 5D has. No more sliding. This likely means properly timed TB > Spark Bolt is no longer a thing. - As previously mentioned in the topic, Barrel did a combo that used falling j.D into 5C, so from that we can infer that j.D's knockback has been reduced. j.D used to be an amazing (if rare) starter, so this could be good. - Can get GF after AC, but not a single player (Under, Sadi, Barrel) even attempted 2D on an unmagnetized opponent. One of them, I believe Sadi, just did jump j.C whiff to get in closer. Likely impossible now due to shorter time in the air. Aforementioned corner combo is AC into corner > tiny step forward > 5C > 5D > B Sledge > 5C > 6A (can't remember if this was in there 100% or not) > 6B > 6B. 5C will whiff without the stutter step in there (happened to Sadi). Am curious if an A sledge could combo after the last 6B. - 360B same kind of starter as 5/2A, so combo options will always be severely limited. One of the players did 360B, spark bolt, AC into the corner, and they teched about halfway toward the ground, same as using AC in 5/2A combos now. Getting 360B in corner either leads to 3697 (360B > 5D > sledge) and oki, or ~4k (adding hammer to the end) but no time for safe jump j.B. - Tager is just doing less damage in general now. A lot of chars lost midscreen stuff in trade for further corner options. Tager's lost damage everywhere, since he no longer has 6B to do any kind of jumping chains in corner, hammer no longer bounces, and can't do 6C after AC anymore. - Confirmed that that you can combo 5B after CH Hammer. However, the distance issue is a thing. Basically need to be within about half a character sprite or so on hammer for 5B to connect. - Looks like the slight bit of extra pull following a blocked 5D is gone, every time I saw one get blocked it pushed pretty far away. - Can potentially combo 5D into AC if canceled right away. Barrel got very close, and it looked like if he'd let it go a split second earlier it would've caught. Will be tight timing if it does work, could lead to awkward gimmicky resets if it doesn't. - Despite the one time I said 6A looked like it might get better pull the longer it's charged, I'm beginning to consider it a fluke of some kind. I've not seen any evidence of particularly strong pull since that one match. A Litchi player jumped out of 6A pull easily and it barely affected her jump trajectory. That's all I can remember. Something may strike me that I missed later.

I just realized the damage on 360B has been lowered to an even 3k. Haven't seen anything other than the changelog video for it, so unknown whether we can do anything to a magnetized opponent yet mid-screen, but yeah. Cool, you can get spark bolt + MTW > TB for a little more than you'd get for doing 720 anyway. Except you save 50 meter by doing 720. And 720 also has invincibility. Oh, but you can follow it up in the corner! For 4k. Instead of the 3600 we would've gotten normally. Woop woop.

what the shit aerial hit counter j.B ground bounced. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GVx6XCSFHI#t=1m10s Also there was a CH hammer in there earlier. Looks like you -might- be able to follow up with 5B? The Tager had the same idea, but did it really late so they teched. He got a few more though. Looks like if you land it from anywhere further than almost point blank, they're too far away to follow up. Huh. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GVx6XCSFHI#t=7m22s : AC looks like it bounces lower, but puts them away further? Definitely looks awkward to me. Does it again into the corner at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GVx6XCSFHI#t=8m30s but doesn't try to follow it up. At https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GVx6XCSFHI#t=13m49s he gets a combo into AC then tries to GF. Doesn't hold it, so can't be 100% sure, but it definitely doesn't look like there's enough time there to drag them all the way back. If this is true, the character-specific AC > 6C combos are likely gone for good. AC just keeps getting worse and worse D: Unfortunately that player really didn't even try to adapt to new changes, so very little overall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrsWN7pMjDM#t=52m15s This links to the first (non stylish mode) Tager match, and showcases a few things I've not seen before or B Sledge now pops up pretty high into the air if it hits an aerial opponent. 2C counter hit floated slightly away from Tager, rather than straight up and down as usual. Unfortunately didn't see a non-combo 6A on aerial opponent, so dunno how strong magnetism pull is there, but grounded one looks as bad as ever. The next one is at ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrsWN7pMjDM#t=1h04m45s ), and starts off immediately with 5D. Very small wall bounce now, apparently. Not sure what the implications are there from full screen, or even if there are any new ones. B sledge barely missed, spark bolt already combo'd off 5D, so idk. Nothing else 1st round, 2nd round he got bodied so don't even bother lol. I take back what I said about 6A. Uses it just before the 1hr7m mark, and it looks like the pull gets substantially stronger the longer it's held. Started off with same slow pull, then suddenly Jin covered 1/3 of the screen very quickly. Next match at ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrsWN7pMjDM#t=1h42m00s ), but it's stylish. Still saw some new stuff though. At ~1:42:45, you see the 5D wallbound in the corner, and briefly afterward you can see the A sledge wallbound as well that was mentioned a bit earlier in the topic. Briefly, until hammer smacks Mu to the ground. Next match at ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrsWN7pMjDM#t=2h08m40s ). Ish. 1st round didn't do anything new. At 2:10:18, we see what I've been scared of this entire time since seeing Hammer just smack to the ground in combos - counter-hit Hammer lead to jack shit. That untech time is not enough to do anything without a rapid, and that's on counter. Eesh. RIP Hammer. That's it for Tager matches.

The only 2C that was shown was immediately canceled into 6D. Growler into phalanx was shown, but not growler as an attempted reversal.

I'm willing to bet there'll be still be ways to do it, but right now j.C doesn't lift up like it used to because every normal hit wallsticks now, instead of just grounded normals. This has been a known change since the very first loketest. But these 'change' videos have all been mostly useless in regard to being comprehensive. They pretty much just showcase 3 changes, when there's plenty of others that are rumored and/or confirmed through other videos. It was true for Tager, and it's true for these. We have no idea if 2C retained the reported nerf, no idea if Growler has a hitbox, the Gustaf change in that Azrael vs Ragna showcase where it staggered on standing, non-counter hit, etc.

2.0 hasn't even dropped officially and already all the Tager is top tier doomsayers that come into every single version are out in force. Time to notch the win rate on that prediction up to 0/7.