Teyah

Meaty 2K/2S should work 100% to stop wakeup throws, as people who are constantly trying reversal throw in a basic wakeup situation (let alone with a Disc on top of them) are generally not the 'better' players and probably haven't practiced for hours and hours to get that 1F throw window down to even a 25-50% possibility. The fact that reversal throw is so unreliable is what prevents people from trying it, there are far safer and better options available. So you should not be playing with the mindset of being afraid to hit low due to being thrown out of 2K/2S at any time (especially 2S), as this limits your mixup considerably. However, you do need to be able to execute 2K/2S as meaties consistently - this does take some work.

If you do 2K or 2S as a meaty attack (active frames overlapping opponent as they get up), you cannot be thrown out... since wakeup throws are generally done in defensive position with 4H. Now I've heard of there being a 1F window on wakeup where the opponent can throw you regardless, but it's honestly not that big of a factor since 1F is so hard to time. Additionally I don't believe this rumor was ever confirmed, but that's another thing altogether... Also.. you can do 2K/2S out of throw range to stop jumps / bad throw attempts as well. In fact - 2S is almost always done out of throw range, as it's much more suitable for that kind of thing with it's hitbox (useful in corner especially for damaging followups). And... a few quick notes on baiting reversal DPs while it's on my mind: From what I've seen, the following works to bait DPs: (corner): Disc (FRC) -> IAD forwards (avoids all DPs - except maybe Ky's)... if they didn't DP, you can mixup land 2K / double AD j.S while the disc covers you. And if you expect opponent to throw you as you land (lol antiair throw), the low AD j.S will nail them for sure during their whiff HS animation. (midscreen): Disc (FRC) -> options 2 or 5. Crossup IAD reverses their inputs and they usually end up getting a standing H or S or P or what have you, then they eat CH Disc. Iron Saviour FRC into FD does indeed block DPs as I've seen it used in some match vids. Tricky stuff!

If you're getting thrown out of Disc pressure it means your opponent's a scrub who likes to mash throw on wakeup. >:o Seriously though, you can do a few things if you can sense a throw coming: 1) Jump straight up to bait a whiffed 4/6H by opponent. If they tried to throw, they'll eat CH Disc. If not, come down with j.S. 2) IAD forwards then back, or jump forwards and AD back to cross them up. If all goes well you'll end up on the same side with them flying towards you after being crossed up / hit by CH Disc. 3) A very well-timed 2K or 2S. There's only a 2-frame (ie. very short) window for this, but it will beat wakeup throw tactics 100% of the time if your execution is there. 4) TK Bad Moon. Can get a little messy if you do it too late and opponent has a faster 5H, as they may end up hitting you out of it. 5) My favourite: Iron Saviour FRC -> damaging combo. Haircar takes Millia off the ground immediately, so you're un-groundthrowable for the entire time. If you've FRC'ed the Disc, go straight into Haircar FRC j.K, then run forwards and react accordingly to combo.

Nope, j.K is still available after FRC, though the timing is slightly earlier than in #R, or feels that way to me at least. Seems a bit easier, anyhow. And yes, I do abuse this in the corner: Iron Saviour FRC -> j.K, land 5S, hit-confirm: On haircar hit (opponent aerial): You will get 5S©. Combo to 2H on heavies, otherwise let 5S© hit twice, then sjc.K-S-H, H Pin, land 6H for knockdown. On j.K hit (opponent grounded): You will get 5S(f). Combo to 5H -> Emerald Rain if meter is of the having, otherwise go to 5H-2D-Secret Garden. On block: Frown in disappointment

zer0: TK Bad Moon isn't really as useful as TK Ensenga or TK Shitsu, since the damage potential isn't as high, and if its blocked and you don't FRC/RC, you die. It also, like many of Millia's moves, has almost no priority, so random pokes can hit you out of it during pressure strings, which again limits its usefulness. TK Turbofall is okay for crossups, but now there's extra landing recovery on it, so who knows. I wasn't really a fan of that move for crossing up anyhow, and now it seems even less useful. Tritone: Millia can just do an Impossible Dust with j.D, then pretty much anything after it. Still does really poor damage though. Suichi: Hairpin (or just Pin) leaves the opponent in the air and gives major untechable time in Slash, allowing you to follow up with her B&B combo (j.H/2H loop), as well as go for knockdown from midscreen. It also changes her jump trajectory and staggers opponent on CH - meaning that you can IAD in and throw Pin (usually S version), if they tried to AA you it's most likely a CH stagger so you can land and launch for some damage. Not as useful as in #R though since you absolutely need the Pin to do real damage now, and so can't afford to throw out Pin as often outside of combos.

Some more notes that may help: - Millia has near-zero priority on most everything, so rushing in will tend to get you killed. As such you can't play her recklessly, at all. - Use 2D at its max range to score knockdowns and go into pressure from there. - Running 6P or 6P after a short string works well if you're fishing for CHs, combo to either 6H -> Roll from far range or 5H-2D -> Roll at close range, then add Disc from there. I guess 6P is her most 'spammable move' priority-wise, but if it's jumped then you die, so use it sparingly if opponent starts getting jumpy, and AA them instead the next time with: - 2H: great AA, untechable launch on CH (just followup with another 2H -> B&B, for added damage). A little slow though, so it's not all that great. (More info on Millia's AA options can be found here) - There's a lot of good info on basic B&B loop / knockdown combo stuff in the 'Slash Millia Preliminary Guide' thread, so definitely check that out. - Due to her lack of priority and good pokes that lead into B&B, Millia is pretty susceptible to abusable normals like Sol 2D, Dizzy 5K and etc. So if you're getting frustrated by simple tactics such as these just post up here and hopefully someone'll provide some advice!

I understand where you're coming from here, but sometimes the risk/reward ratio isn't worth it. For example, it's better to get hit low by Pot twice in a row than get PB'ed once. So you'll be going for the former option more often at times. Ah right, I know well how broken pressure works, as I used it alot back when I played Baiken as a main character. The problem with broken pressure with Millia, I find, is that her pokes generally don't have much priority (outside of a close 6P). So broken 2Ps, or 2P-5P whiffs generally don't go too far, at least not without risks. Eddie can't really make much use of it either as his pokes are quite slow in Slash (though he's got the shadow to cover him anyway). Yes... this is true for me at the moment, as with Millia I rely too much on 2P-5S© into TKBM / 2S or Iron Saviour 50/50. Though the reason I go for single pressure at the moment is because Millia's normals don't seem well suited for broken pressure what with their low priority and only average speed and range. With other characters it can be quite different (but not Eddie, which I mentioned above).

Baiken's 5P leaves her at +2 frame advantage, and very close. This means you can act before the opponent (but not throw them just yet), which is very important. Even if IB'ed it's a +/- 0 even, but not if they are crouching. A crouching IB also gives a +2, I believe. Note that there are 5F of unthrowable time once your opponent comes out of blockstun. Meaning.. you have to wait a total of 7F before actually attempting a throw. It's very possible your opponent will try to throw you first, during his 5F unthrowable time, if you do this. Now here's where the mixup comes in: After 5P and +2: - 6K. Baiken's 6K is unthrowable, and staggers on CH. And it will CH if your opponent tried to throw you during his 5F of unthrowable time (except maybe if your opponent is Robo-Ky, who has an absurdly fast 5H). So you tick with 5P, opponent thinks you're going for throw, you hit 6K and get stagger -> big combo. - 2K (late cancel). Works sort of similar to above, opponent is ready to 4H and throw you, which leaves their low defense open. So you hit them low and followup with something like 5S -> 2D, into whatever. - JC to Youzansen. For those that might try to hit you back after a 5P +2, if anticipating a 6K, or if they have a fairly quick attack that they can sneak in (ie. Sol / Hoss 5K). Since you're cancelling to YZS and not waiting for the 5P to end, your YZS may CH their anti-6K / anti-throw tactic. Useful if you have meter for RC, particularly. - Another 5P. Same idea as above, basically fishing for CHs here (as opponent may want to jab you before you can throw them). Be careful of doing this to people like Sol / Hoss who have 3F attacks though, as your +2 won't be enough advantage, and Baiken's 5-frame 5P likely won't win the priority war. So once your opponent settles down and begins blocking after 5P, half expecting a followup, this is when you can begin the throwings. Keep a good mixup going like Sharon (in his #R days at least) and you will be unstoppable! ...maybe. If you're wondering how I know this much, it's because I played Baiken as my main for almost two years, and used this type of strategy heavily. :o

poon - Good stuff, I'm understanding where you're coming from. I'll do what I can from here on out to improve my game in the ways you listed. However I do have a few questions/comments: - By 'better blocking', do you mean not trying to poke out of block/pressure strings? A lot of the times I try this I'm afraid of being grabbed (ie. vs POscrub).. while other times I do it subconsciously. I'm guessing it's only the latter you're referring to when you say improve your defenses. :o - You mention frame traps.. does this apply to me? From what I know, frame advantage is required for frame traps - yes? Millia normals do not give frame advantage, so it's kind of tough to work anything out there. But I have used it earlier with Sol in #R (2P / GF FRC) so it's not entirely unfamiliar territory here. Other than Disc FRC in pressure or Secret Garden, or even 5S RC (which I do at times~), I haven't been able to think of any general frame traps for her. Would be good to know if any others exist! This is true, but only when the player matchups call for it. For example, I know there are a few players who never shift off low-block, and so I tend to go overhead-happy on them. Others, like POscrub and JOFan, do not just block low all day and as such I do choose to mix it up when I play them. It all depends on the player. Did I read your point correctly or am I a bit off base here? :o This kind of confuses me... simply because Millia, by design, is made to crack the guard of the other player. Assuming you can score a knockdown, which almost certainly happens at some point in matches. You can't mean to say that the large majority of mixups after knockdown or blockstring would be blocked, can you? After all, TKBM and 6K are overheads that are pretty much unreactable to; in the end it comes down to a guessing game. There's also roll / AD crossups thrown in as well as disc -> throw (which I do use, however sparingly, see earlier #R sets for those), and.. yeah. I don't really agree with what you're saying, though I could be misinterpreting it. - Finally, I hope it's not too much to ask of you after all this, but could you post some comments on my Millia like you did for the other characters? Specifically looking at the 2 Millia vs May matches on the last set. Aside from noting the dropped combos (which are mainly because I've not yet messed around with them at all in Training or anything to see how they work exactly)... yeah. Anything at all would be helpful if you could! Thanks again poon~~ Edit: Forgot to mention, most of the players here do not take GG too seriously at all... there's no real competitive drive in our scene. Putting in the time and effort to learn these things to better their play is a very unlikely possibility, as the common incentive to learning even character-specific tactics is not that high... let alone major general gameplay adjustments such as what you have suggested. But I'll try to convince whoever I can; I'm just letting you know of this anyhow, to give you a bit of a background on all of this.

poon, thanks a ton for all the advice you've posted here. I was the Eddie and Millia (and Ky) in those vids you saw. Was wondering why you couldn't tell who was who when the filenames had all the info on them. =p You are right in that I don't use Eddie as much as my other characters (Millia and Sol), but am now trying to. I'll work on the fullscreen Eddie calling out and try not to get him killed off as is usually the case. Also must work on holding of buttons in a better fashion, as I have problems with basic Eddie stuff (like hiding a button hold behind a normal attack). Thanks for the advice! And.. why do anything else if this works every time? :o I fully know that MrDolphin never, ever, ever blocks high, so I just continually do this to him for free damage + knockdown. If he eventually starts blocking it, then in comes 5S©-2S or something else off the 2P. It's kinda funny how I always hear "mix up more", but really, what is meant by that? Doing silly unsafe things like non-chained 6K or TKBM might be a better 'mixup' but more often than not you're going to get blasted. Same goes for tick -> run-in throw (which is very predictable and unsafe), and even Disc FRC at times. While it's important to mixup, it's also important to be safe. It's good to be specific kinda like poon is with his advice also, not just general blanket statements! But thanks for the comments anyhow. Edit: Excuse me for not turtling against Pot but I was getting PB'ed quite a bit in previous games and wished to avoid such pain by jumping away (ie. getting hit by lows alot)

Thanks for the input, axel. I have toned down my j.K'ing significantly since #R, though you probably wouldn't be able to guess just from seeing my Slash stuff, heh. And of course if I find myself being punished badly for it I'll tone it down even further (as I started doing later vs BR there). j.K does seem to work well against certain characters without a good AA though (May, Dizzy). Also... have trouble summoning little Eddie from fullscreen as it's pretty tough to get in - flying doesn't seem to work all that well now and drills can only take you so far. Any specific advice here? You know it. ;( MI vs BR was not recorded, sadly. POscrub - I guess I'm conditioned to not super much with Eddie, as that didn't even cross my mind. It would have worked, most likely. Also, tossing Pin out in close can be good and bad. Remember that without Pin you can't do any kind of reliable damage. Not that I've actually bothered to learn her proper midscreen/corner Pin combos just yet (outside of the corner loop). But soon I'll put some time into Training mode for that!

Okay guys, new Slash vids are here. In the below matches you will see exactly why Eddie is now C-Tier. ;( http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=14NGBXIP56MQ90G6Q08GJFX7LV -OR- http://rapidshare.de/files/18396842/BC_Vids_-_Apr18-2006.rar.html Slash Teyah(Eddie) vs sweetvids(Bridget) x4 Teyah(Eddie) vs MrDolphin(May) x1 Teyah(Millia) vs MrDolphin(May) x2 I expect major posting from all who view! >:E

The Faust infinite, Robo-Ky powerup glitch, and other minor glitches / imbalances. Faust infinite: *41236K, pull in, S©, 2H, repeat * many times. There may be some sort of trick to this as I didn't have much success with this when I tried it out years back. But then again I was pretty noob back then in GG. RK powerup glitch: Jump and FD in air as timer goes off on detonation super and you don't explode (you FD the explosion hit), keeping the powerup and refilling tension bar for the remainder of the round. Also, if you are thrown, hilarity ensues (usually, RK explodes and hits the attacker, but not in all cases). Full-round powerup w/constant tension gain + opponent afraid to grab you were top tier tactics. :D RK could also FDC after his 6[6]+attack charge move, allowing for stupidly damaging combos on lighter characters. There were other minor glitches like Faust's sprite tearing (getting garbled) during certain animations. This was most notable to me while Faust was blocking high, but I never really payed much attention to it. Here's a hilarious #Red glitch video showing other random stuff as well: http://s29.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3CFUQBORI6W130YIUN1O5FZE7B Anyway... #Red's not really a 'glitched' game unless you go out of your way to make it so; all #Red-only glitches/properties were banned during both our tourneys we had on it back in 2003/2004, and they went off without a hitch. Other than the few glitches and a few random move properties, #R Red is identical to #R Blue.

Strangely, the only other couple of Millia vs Pot matches I have are of Slash Millia winning (as well as one of #R Millia losing?), by baiting your wakeup PBs or punishing tech into j.D buttdrop right into disc and etc. Apparently when I thought the VCR ran out of tape was actually when it finished rewinding (ie. it ran out of tape long before we thought it did)... so all I have is this footage + those other couple of matches that wouldn't teach me much. About getting in with Millia, I find it very hard against Pot. First thing I noticed is that I should be airdashing in with j.P, not j.S (which usually gets me aithrown). Second thing is, Millia seems to have trouble advancing on the ground, outside of a random max-range 2D or something to that effect. Though even if I do land random 2D, the slower H-disc won't really allow for mixup after that either. You basically need to knock Pot down and then go from there, which my Slash Millia has trouble doing. Probably due to Slash being so new and me not knowing the proper knockdown combos/tech setups from midscreen/corner. =p And of course I must work on proper AA'ing. Just that Pot's j.H beats (or trades, same thing) Millia's 5P clean, so that AA option is thrown out the window, leaving you with 2H (slow) and 6P (slower). Hard to use these two on reaction to double jumps and the like.

Okay, new set of match videos, this time mostly for Slash (one #R vid). See front page, or if too lazy: http://s36.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1OAVORS6H98PU34ZNT2H6N8GL9 -OR- http://rapidshare.de/files/18056933/BC_Vids_-_Apr14-2006.rar.html List of matches follows... #Reload JOFan(Johnny) vs nagai(Dizzy) Slash Teyah(Eddie) vs halftooth(Sol) JOFan(Johnny) vs MrDolphin(May) Teyah(Ky) vs nagai(Dizzy) Teyah(Millia) vs POscrub(Potemkin) Teyah(R-Millia) vs POscrub(Potemkin) It's Day 2 of Slash, don't expect anything groundbreaking here. Many of us were playing Slash for the first time and were just getting used to the changes. I am aware that my Eddie needs some work. Also... I'm no serious Ky player. I just like to throw Stun Edges~

You're probably going too high (due to the SJC). I would use just j.S-H, H-Pin after the launch, that was your H-Pin will cause a knockdown. Though you can probably add a couple of reps of the j.H loop in there before ending with 2H -> sj.S-Pin for the knockdown. Thanks for the framedata btw. Though, what I'm really looking for is Millia's translated #R framedata that RC had up awhile back (but doesn't seem to now). If you could post that it'd be much appreciated!

Bad Moon is -15 on block, plenty of time for you to get smacked. Unless of course you're covered by Disc. Also, if you need it, here's my pile of Slash framedata. Most all of it is from that one Japanese site (don't know name offhand). English Order-Sol stuff is from RC. http://s31.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1CIUDUA1ZE48X3LO59UH2PVMYC By the by... has anyone tried anything like the Bad Moon FRC / RC option-select I posted a short while ago? I'm wondering if it's even viable, I'll have to try it out some in the coming weeks.

Well back when I got mine (late 2004)... it cost ~$140 USD, after shipping. Now the same model goes for $110 or so. But the popular style it seems are the new mini Sanwa sticks, which can run from $140-$160 for the stick / box / parts alone, before shipping. So after shipping to a place that far.. I'm estimating around $200 USD. Yeah, it's a lot of money.

Not only Kenshin, but original GG1 Kenshin-esque Baiken as well. You can always just get the guys at SRK to make you one and ship it out there... but that'd cost a ton of money.

Here is my pride and joy: Too bad it's being sold off soon. ;( I've burned through many a stick (X-Arcade, Namco stick, HRAP) in the last couple years, but I've always come back to the good old Happ Competition stick. Nothing compares, except maybe my HRAP if it ever gets loose enough. Edit: Made by the great Dreaded Fist of SRK, if anyone is wondering.

Gabriel's not on there (but he is on the chart below). I'd suggest for you to go play GGX2 or GGXX#R PC English story mode to see how it all fits together! This chart is certainly similar to the one from GGX Drafting Artworks: (Sorry for the low quality and darkness, that's just how it was in the book)

Thanks much for the advice, AKA. It certainly does help - the delaying of the sj.K after the SJC has reduced my random turbofall by a significant amount after launching with 5S© or 2H. But 5P - sj.K is still a bit tough for me, as it can't really be delayed much at all. Guess all I can do here is try my damndest to avoid the df area of the stick, I'm thinking that's all it's coming down to in the end anyway... Random notes: I've also been experimenting around with TK Bad Moon FRC / RC. Since the FRC is immediately after Millia bounces away, I really doubt it can be hit-confirmed to allow for more pressure on block. Instead, what I've noticed is that with 50% tension, you can sort of option select by doing TK Bad Moon, timing the FRC point, then inputting a 6,6S. What this does is a FRC -> airdash S on block, or a 2-hit RC TK Bad Moon into running 5S© on hit. Effectively allowing you to either launch or keep up the pressure on hit or block, respectively. With only 25% tension gauge, you can of course just do the above also, but you won't get the RC. So you can just lay disc instead. Now the usefulness of this seems pretty limited to just blocked strings that end in 5S© (for high/low mixup at that point), or strange far-range knockdowns like 6H or 236S. And in the latter cases, a 236H FRC would probably be the better option. But hey, this is something to experiment with at the least! And, this does carry over to Slash as well.

Untechable time is always the same, whether you start grounded or in the air. First of all, Kabari -> Tetsuzansen is techable unless done very close on an aerial opponent. It's not really practical to do Kabari at that close of a range, but I guess it can happen if they try to jump out of a string ending with it. ;o The reason it's techable is simple - the opponent is airborne longer if you launch them while they're already in the air. This extra airtime exceeds the untechable time of the move, and the Tetsuzansen becomes techable once its untechable time runs out on your opponent, who is still in the air.

A glitch that programmers were too lazy to fix. (Just like the rest of Slash lolol~)

- Yes~ - No. :O. Not always a good idea to AA Johnny (with Sol anyway). Johnny's air DB beats you out of any AA aside from VV (which is why I did use VV once as AA). Can also lead to pretty decent damage for JO. Millia 6P however, goes through the flame and doesn't get her hit, so that's why you see me try that alot more. But it's still susceptible to getting owned by double jump. ;( - Yes~ (need to work on execution to move out of comfort zone though) You should know that D = unblockable, by now~ I knew it. ;_;