Ehecatl

..... You mean this doesn't have much of Jin/Hakumen?? Damn it all. The other stuff is interesting for sure, like Terumi and such. But damn... was looking forward to watching Jin go from pathetic chump to radiating epic levels of awesome and yelling "taste my sword" in the name of great justice.

Lol... Indeed. If its not popular enough Mori promised as much.

Except that BB is also UNLIKE every other fighting game ever made. It actually has a coherent story that isn't tacked-on whereas every other one does not. I would agree with you otherwise as fighters aren't known for having good stories, and most of the time the story is just there to act as an excuse to display the fighter element. Perhaps I will be proven wrong in time but for once I think they're actually going to do this one right. And besides, they've already had the story planned out since the beginning. I doubt they'd stretch it out unnecessarily or start adding extra shit just to continue something after it should have already ended. They might make additional games with just the fighting characters and no real story, or they might do that cross-over idea though. And as for the interview where he stated that Blazblue was originally to be an RPG-- I'm looking for it right now. Pretty sure I read that somewhere in my bored wanderings... Unless it as as Jam stated and just another damned rumor.

Again though, from observing the development of both games-- I would highly disagree with that assertion. Hell... if CS is supposed to be the BB 1.5 with all its development, I really doubt they'd take that route then. And if they wanted to go that way, they could have easily done this with CS and split the current plot of it across 2 or 3 games. There's enough detail and story there to easily do that. But they didn't. Perhaps you could argue that its because they weren't sure it'd be popular enough but still. Not likely. There's too much there now for them to simply start throwing bullshit stories like AC+ out.

I will disagree with you here. While I have no doubt they'd make spin-offs out the ass or additional games with no story and just fighting, the main story will most likely stick to a predetermined format. Hell-- up until this point it has! You can easily see by the way they've built both Calamity Trigger and Continuum Shift that they haven't been making up the story as they go. I'd guess the series would go to a trilogy based off of the pace it is going by but whatever. That is not official. The reality is however, BB was originally to be an RPG before Aksys got screwed in its court battle with Sega over the Guilty Gear series and they had been developing that story for 3 years prior to its release. If I'd guess, that's probably one of the reasons BB has a far better developed story with 2 games than GG has had in its myriad of various games. So I would hesitate to compare GG to BB. They may both be fighting games, but just looking at the way both games have been going will tell you that assumption isn't one which can so easily be made. Now... after the story is finished will they make more? Probably. Stuff with crossovers between BB and GG and shit most likely. But I seriously SERIOUSLY doubt they will just make the same story go on and on. The set up, the pacing, the execution-- its all way too straight-forward, too focused. Were it as you said, I doubt CS would be nearly so developed as it is. With the way it has been made, were that true, they could have separated the plot in that one game across two or three! Besides take a look at GG and BB. In GG, people fight half the time for NO reason what-so-ever. Sure BB has its characters that fight for stupid reasons, such as Bang or Tao. But those characters are supposed to be comic relief-- and even they have good reasons from time to time! In fact, most of the time in BB, there's a good reason for the fights and they actually help push the development of the plot. In GG, fights are pretty much forced and slapped on like this: Slayer: "Hey I'm old. Lets fight." (Literally in Accent Core, this is his one and only reason-- and it never changes) Jam: "Hey I got a restaurant, lets fight." May: "Hey you're bald. Lets fight." Testament: "Rawr, you stepped in my forest. Lets fight." Robo-ky: "GRGKK, I'M HORNY! LET'S FIGHT!" Axl Low: "I don't know where I am. Oh well-- lets fight!" Sol Badguy vs Order Sol. Order Sol: "Its not smart for us to fight so why?" Sol Badguy: "Hell if I know, Lets fight!" I mean-- really? Just looking at half the lame excuses people had to fight in GG, you can tell the developers were just reaching for shit because they had no real reason and just wanted to keep the fighting going since GG is a 'fighting' game. And with the way BBCS was built, it made all those seemingly useless side characters in its story actually serve a purpose to the main plot, whereas half the character roister in GG serve no purpose at all to the story. They're just there. So--- to end my wall of text, I will say that I very much disagree with your assertion and due to Aksys's careful attention to BB's story plot all up to this point, I believe its safe to actually look upon it with some optimism. Hopefully, I won't jinx myself in harboring such beliefs.

Hah! I had no idea I was so appreciated. :grin: Thank you. And yes, as for GameFAQS, I wouldn't waste my time there. In many of my curious meanderings I've yet to find anyone with half a grain of intelligence there. I've experienced many a facepalm at the misfortune of reading certain posts though. And yes, I am not one to simply subscribe to the argument that mere jealousy could cause such a drastic change in Tsubaki. Even in her own storyline, when she fights Noel and is steaming with jealousy and anger, she still hasn't the heart to kill her when she is in her 'normal' form. If you'll notice, the only time she's actually cold at all is when she's in that black form, and it doesn't seem she turned that way willingly at all. And also, we must remember that Izayoi plays a HUGE factor here in regards to her emotions. It can steal the light of the user's soul. Before Hazama gave Tsubaki a taste of jealousy, Tsubaki was fine aside from her eyes progressively going blind. Suddenly, Hazama opens the door to doubt in her emotions and that crack in the door probably was all the Izayoi needed to steal Tsubaki's light. Even Hakumen tells Tsubaki to be careful as all those he ever knew who used the Izayoi met very "cold" ends. Notice as well... once her form does go black, suddenly she has no problem seeing. Suddenly, she's not struggling. Its only while she was without doubt and was strong at heart that she had trouble maintaining her sight. And like I said, I think Phantom plays a huge part here. Once Tsubaki looses her light, all the sudden Phantom is there and I got a feeling that Izayoi is directly connected to Phantom in a way that she can probably use Tsubaki now. That is speculative-- but regardless, Tsubaki isn't wholly in control of herself here. I think without the Izayoi that Tsubaki wouldn't have been effected the way she was in concerns to Noel. Sure, she might be jealous of her. Might be angry even. But the result wouldn't have been what we see now.

Thing about Tsubaki, and correct me if I'm wrong, but even though her jealousy towards Noel may have been a catalyst-- its not what made her suddenly turn cold and become "evil". Playing through Jin's story, there is clearly a difference between when she's normal and when her suit turns black. And not long after Hazama talked about having a little "insurance policy" in the event Tsubaki's faith faltered, she suddenly screams in pain and calls out to Jin just before her personality takes a complete turn. Plus, with the way it ended, it didn't seem that the person talking was Tsubaki at all-- but someone else. Ironic enough that in the middle of their fight, Jin cuts through the dimensional field and suddenly there's Phantom just standing there. The more I look at that scene, the more I'm convinced that Phantom is using Tsubaki and when Tsubaki is speaking after she changes to black, it seems that Phantom is the one really speaking through her. There is no other reason for Phantom to even be there. So to cut to the chase, I wonder if its even possible for Tsubaki to save herself at this point or if it will have to be Jin or someone else saving her. The whole "I'm jealous that Noel took my place by Jin's side so I'll completely change 180 degrees and also kill Jin for not supporting the NOL" seems way way WAY too drastic. As I said, perhaps her wavering resolve, her jealousy, and the Izayoi were all catalysts but the end result isn't all her doing. Every time she speaks as that form I hear Phantom, not her. Least that's what my take on it is.

Unless, the illusion of a world that must be observed to exist fades. In which case, I believe Rachel, Hakumen, Terumi, etc. would all fade with it. It isn't known if they can maintain their existence in the real world, as the world of the azure is in a completely different dimension if I'm reading it correctly. Hard to tell where they're taking this story. The real world is messed up and destroyed. All that exists is a fake one made of the Azure and observed by Takamagahara and the master unit. Since Takamagahara is destroyed along with, perhaps, the master unit-- I've no idea how the world maintains its own existence as Terumi and Saya desire its destruction and need only refuse to observe it to achieve that... I think. If I'm understanding it right. Damn quantum physics and all that shit. Even after studying the theory of Schrodinger's Cat, this boggles my mind...

No no. Its understandable considering what a huge shift she's taken. And I do try to be civil (though I know how I can sometimes sound like a dick). I pray I've not given you such an impression. Anyway, as for her telling her friends-- she's not strong enough. It might be the better thing to do. But in the end, she knows what she's doing is wrong. She knows those same people will try to stop her. And she knows she doesn't want to be stopped or to have to deal with the potential disappointment in their faces. Honesty isn't always the easiest option-- especially when you're facing the people you least want to disappoint. And while it may be rational of her to do be honest for their sakes as well as hers-- when has ANYTHING she has been doing been rational? From the very start with her doing the same thing that made Arakune-- well, Arakune, she's been acting on pure, blind, desperation. As for burning a town-- I seriously doubt she'd go that far. I believe Hazama is only going to be able to use her so far. I'm sure he's fed her plenty of crap information to make her attack people like Rachel on site without hesitation-- but she'd know better with towns-people, and despite her desperation, there is still a loving, kind, and compassionate person there. That part of her isn't a lie, else she never would have sacrificed her life for Carl's sake in one of his CT time-lines. And speaking of Carl-- you saying that this could crush Carl even worse and make him even more likely to believe all adults are selfish monsters isn't without merit. I'm choosing to think optimistically about that and HOPING that he will grow in whatever third game comes out in the years to come so that he could be the one that's there for her. And considering how writers love to scare people just before giving them "daww" moments, and considering how Carl's current growth is an excellent opportunity for his character to build more in a third game-- I can't deny that I worry of how his reaction will be when he sees Litchi. He could regress and end up turning into his father after all. I do hope and believe though that that won't be the case. And I believe Litchi will realize in time how selfish she's been. But when she does, she's gonna need someone to give her some love I think, poor broken mess that she is.

Okay, lets think about this from her perspective. She was so obsessed with bringing Arakune back to normal that she did the same damn thing Lott did just so she could understand it! I mean... if that doesn't spell desperate, then what does? That's like you wanting to find a cure for AIDS, so you inject a whole vial of it into yourself. Except its even worse as she did more than corrupt her body with an incurable disease, she filled it with something that could turn it into a monster, not to mention destroy her soul. As a former scientist especially, that was a reckless and desperate move. And speaking of her scientific career-- she completely abandoned it when her superiors wouldn't help her on this endeavor she sacrificed so much for already. All this she did since before CT. Now lets look at the present, this desperate doctor starts a clinic. Linhua it seems knows of her condition and keeps tabs on her. She tries to help people as she can with her clinic and even visits the Kaka kittens as one of the few humans who would even dare to-- but still why did she even do it? Because sightings proved that Arakune usually attacked Orient town and the Kaka village. See a pattern here? Do you think it a coincidence that the areas Arakune hit the most just so happen to be the areas Litchi's lives and frequents most? Sure, she may be nice to the residents-- hell she's a sweetheart. She is a caring and compassionate person by nature. However, she was there for one reason only and has devoted her entire existence to that one reason. So is it really so unbelievable for a person who has previously displayed a willingness to leave everything she was behind for something to once again pack up and leave it all behind again when she feels someone or something else could help her to achieve her goal? As for an apology-- let me ask you, if you were her, would you have the stones to look up the Kaka clan, or Orient Town, or anyone else and say "I'm sorry I'm betraying you all but I have to?" Would you have the courage to look Carl in the eyes and tell him "I know I fought so hard to make you see not all adults are bad, but I'm about to join the thing you hate and ally with the very person you despise. Sorry."? She hasn't even the damned strength to let one person she loves go right now-- how could she have the strength to say that to everyone else she cares about? And as for them helping. In what way? What could they do to help? Are the Kaka scientists? Is Bang someone who would know a lot about Ars Magis? Would Carl or the people of Orient Town know anything about the Boundary that she doesn't already know? They couldn't help if they wanted to so of course she'd look somewhere else for help. So no, its entirely natural for her to leave and not say a thing. Because she is desperate and she doesn't have the strength to look all her friends and loved ones in the eye to tell them what she's about to do. Oh...And again, this behavior of leaving without telling a soul isn't new for her. She didn't resign from Sector Seven. She went AWOL. Which means, when she left them, she didn't say a thing to them either! Again, see a pattern with her behavior? She's a nice woman. She's a loving and caring person. She is compassionate and understanding. However, she is also incredibly desperate, incredibly weak, and really quite sad. She must of really loved Lott Carmine. She abandoned everything she ever knew-- twice-- for him after all. However, I still see Arakune as dieing in the end and her as having to learn to find the strength to move on. She's running from the greater problem, which is her inability to let go, made even more difficult for her considering that she's already sacrificed so much (including her very body). She'll snap out of it I believe, because she is a good person underneath, But I think Carl, Tao, and maybe even Bang will be a huge influence where that is concerned. Because when she does let Lott go, she'll need someone to help her through it. Right now though, she's just a sad, pathetic woman who feels backed in a corner with no help and no way out except for one very dark path. But lets look at this from her perspective again. She already sold her soul once for Lott's sake... Why not again?

While I do believe the Jin we saw in Jin's storyline in CT is NOT the Haku-men currently running around, as proven before, your logic is a little off as he does imply he knows of Ars Magus when he was there with Jubei. Nevertheless, there is one glaring truth that proves the Haku-men of the current story is not the Jin we saw in CT. In Jin's story in CT, he kills Noel and he even brags about it to Ragna saying "Hey... I just killed a girl that looked just like 'her'" referring to their sister Saya of course. And again, when he notices Nu's similarities, he screams "No... I just killed you. I just killed you!!!" The current Hakumen does not know Noel on any personal level and in his story, Tsubaki was his secretary-- which would mean Noel was already dead long before he and her would ever meet and she was never there to take Tsubaki's place to begin with. As for Litchi-- I will say that yes, she is acting very selfishly. However, I would not call her insane. Desperate-- most definitely. She's sacrificed EVERYTHING to bring Arakune back to normal. She did the same thing he did and is thus suffering the consequences! No one knows what to do. Kokonoe couldn't save Lott. Neither does she have the means (or time) to save Litchi or commit resources to helping Arakune. Litchi knows this, and even if she doesn't trust Hazama-- the man brings up a good deal of logical points about the NOL having worked with Ars Magis for a century and thus of potentially knowing a way. She has already proven since before CS that was obsessed with Arakune. It does not surprise me that she would take this route. You have to understand, people do crazy things when they feel like they're forced in a corner with no alternatives. She, at least from her perspective, very much is.

What? You do not know the full scale of the epic-ness that is Liquor Bar and Drunkard? Very well-- I could never deny an opportunity to provide . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AniggV8zXDk That's the english version of the song. The lyrics are in the description but I'll also post them here. I've also taken the liberty of revising the said lyrics as there are some small errors in some places. Warning to anyone with problems concerning strong language. The lyrics are rather vulgar. ------- Liquor Bar and Drunkard Give me... One more... Fuckin' shot... Right fuckin' now! Oh yeah... A shame that you thought That I came from my angel. Ordinary Johnny Johnny. Caught at the dump Just doing a bump. Like an ordinary Johnny Johnny. Tequila shots-- and some Very. Fast. Cars... It's a game-- and you wish you never came. Like an ordinary Johnny Johnny. Dealin' by the pound just layin' it down! Like an ordinary extraordinaire. Tequila shots-- and some Very. Fast. Cars... Some dry martinis, chicks in Lamborghini's! Johnny Johnny you know you're the only one. Johnny Johnny you know a-spittin' fire. Some dry martinis, chicks in Lamborghini's! Johnny Johnny-- Johnny extraordinaire. Johnny Johnny-- Johnny extraordinaire. Right to left, Left to right, Side to side, Outta sight-- Can you feel me? can you feel me?? Can you feel me??? Left to right, Right to left, Side to side, Outta sight-- Can you feel me? can you feel me?? Can you feel me??? Give me... one more... fuckin' shot... Right fuckin' now! Oh yeah... A shame that you thought That I came from my angel. Ordinary Johnny Johnny. Caught at the dump Just doing a bump. Like an ordinary Johnny Johnny. Tequila shots-- and some Very. Fast. Cars... It's a game-- and you wish you never came. Like an ordinary Johnny Johnny. Dealin' by the pound, just layin' it down! Like an ordinary extraordinaire. Tequila shots-- and some Very. Fast. Cars... Some dry martinis, chicks in Lamborghini's! Johnny Johnny you know you're the only one. Johnny Johnny you know a-spittin' fire. Some dry martinis, chicks in Lamborghini's! Johnny Johnny-- Johnny extraordinaire. Johnny Johnny-- Johnny extraordinaire. Right to left, Left to right, Side to side, Outta sight-- Can you feel me? can you feel me?? Can you feel me??? Left to right, Right to left, Side to side, Outta sight-- Can you feel me? can you feel me?? Can you feel me??? Some dry martinis, chicks in Lamborghini's! Johnny Johnny you know you're the only one. Johnny Johnny you know a-spittin' fire. Some dry martinis, chicks in Lamborghini's! Johnny Johnny-- Johnny extraordinaire! Johnny Johnny-- Johnny extraordinaire! Right to left, Left to right, Side to side, Outta sight-- Can you feel me? Can you feel me?? Can you feel me??? Left to right, Right to left, Side to side, Outta sight-- Can you feel me? Can you feel me?? Can you feel me??? Give me... ONE more... FUCKIN' SHOT... Right fuckin' now.....! Oh... Yeah... ---- God damn it... I want a drink now.

Damn right. Who could not like that song? A song about dry martinis, chicks, and lamborginis? I'm surprised a song like that could be accepted for a T rated game. Regardless, all I have to say is FUCK. YES. I can easily imagine Johnny drinking at a bar, then shit hits the fan, a big funny fight happens, and that song starts playing in the back ground.

Nothing beats the english vocal version of Johnny's Liquor Bar and Drunkard. Hands down the best theme for any character in video game history. Period.

I had written a theory in a post several pages back and in that I had been speaking about after CT/ before CS true ending. Of course I know the loops have ended after CS. Go back a few pages and you'll see what I'm talking about. This. Jesus Christ, how many people get this wrong. I'm taking Portuguese classes and my girl friend is native Portuguese. Those from Portugal, the Azores, the Mozambique--- and yes, Brazil all speak Portuguese. Learn up, foo.

There's no mention of America being wiped out-- and to be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if Ragna was American. Don't mean to stereotypical, but we Americans tend to make good assholes and Ragna strikes me as an asshole. :P And as for the time loops-- I've seen no proof that the time loops have ended. Takamagahara is still active through most of CS's story and Rachel doesn't say the loops have ended. I'll need official confirmation if they are indeed ended. Perhaps Suzaku could provide some enlightenment.

She did. Play her arcade in CT and she admits that she bit him. An act she regrets but felt she had no choice in. And she says she did it only-- once. The thing that has intrigued me-- it has always been assumed that she did it after Terumi lolloped off his arm. However, if that were true, then in each time line she'd have to bite him after every time that happened. But she said she bit him only once and the key word is that she says she did it a "long time ago". She's said to be 72500 years old (the numbers vary on that age it seems but still, very old). If she is saying she did that a long time ago, then I doubt very much as well that she means any time within a 10 year span. So I have to wonder at what point she bit him and what the ramifications were? She mentions constantly how she is a "bystander" and an "audience member" not a "cast member". Many have wondered, since she survives every time line, why she doesn't interfere more directly in changing things. But from the impression I get and the hints displayed throughout, I believe she indeed had tried a direct approach and perhaps has watched those efforts backfire in a way that affected every following time line. Like the butterfly effect. Therefore, she interferes only in a minor way now and lets the people involved in the time line play out their roles so as not to create shifts that could screw everything over. I do find it intriguing and it would make sense. Terumi had been Hakumen at one time. For Jin to have taken up the role, something had to have happened. I believe Terumi may have had set up some plot that would have screwed crap over and Rachel caught on in time to correct it by using Jin. Another thing I'd like to mention which I'm sure you brilliant people here already know-- it seems Hakumen may now also be outside of time with Rachel. We know Rachel in each arcade ending involving Hakumen is closely connected to his use. If a time-loop is indeed present in CS as it appears to be, one thing I notice is Hakumen never dies. Each time the fight goes disadvantageous for him, Rachel interrupts and pulls him away with her teleportation. Furthermore, if a time-loop is present and different for each arcade, then the things he says in that arcade also give him away as "knowing more than he should". I believe the order the time-loops would go in would be Hakumen's arcade story first, then Hazama's, then lambda's, then Tager's. In Hakumen's, he is first summoned by her, so this would be his first time back from the Edge since Ragna beat him. When he meets Terumi, he tries to reason with him first before finally declaring "You are beyond saving". Then, in Hazama's story, when Hakumen meets him, he doesn't even try to reason with him. All he does is say "If only I had known of your existence sooner, this tragedy could have been avoided." Of course, he loses and Rachel saves him. Then in Lambda's story, Hakumen first sees her, learns of Kokonoe's involvement, etc. Hakumen is taken away by Rachel again. In Tager's story, Hakumen asks Kokonoe why she uses the Murokumo unit to fight instead of her own strength-- but Kokonoe had Lambda away in repairs at this time in Tager's story. If Hakumen had not recalled meeting Kokonoe's Murokumo in an earlier time-line, he never would have known she even existed and thus never would have asked Kokonoe why she uses the Murokumo to fight. The fact that Hakumen asked that question at that point in time shows that he recalls information from those other time lines. The only way he's doing that is either because Rachel tells him (unlikely), or because he's seen for himself, has experienced those time-lines, and has survived through each one because Rachel has teleported him away and out of time's boundary where she resides. And it would make sense for her to do this. Notice she never takes any character outside of time with her to survive each time line. Its obvious why. Suppose she took Ragna. Well, then, assuming time COULD even be reset considering the need for his and Nu's azures to meet for that to happen, then all that would happen is once time reset, the Ragna on earth would be born again; and next thing you know, we got two Ragna's running around. All kinds of problems could happen from that. Thus, Rachel wouldn't take any of the "cast" from the play. However, Hakumen was technically offed by Ragna. Kokonoe can't bring him back anymore either as the last time she did it, it took her half a year. The events proceeding in CS are happening in merely I believe a month or two after CT. Not enough time to find him if she wanted to. So really, without Rachel bringing Hakumen back-- there is no Hakumen. This places him in an interesting position and makes him a potentially valuable tool. There's no chance of two of him running around and with him being bound by Rachel's Ars, he has to comply by her demands. And considering they have mutual enemies, its likely she saw use in bringing him back, and sees further use in letting him survive each time loop and learn as she has, the world around him. He definitely seems more "enlightened" this time around and that would provide an easy and logical explanation. Unless there aren't time-loops still going on. In that case, everything I said was probably complete bullshit.

Anybody know of a BB arcade around the DC area? Surely there has to be one.

You know, some of the new story changes I've looked at with general disappointment but I gotta say--- Who the hell called this one! :D :D :D In my Nox Nyctores thread, I mentioned specifically that I believed the weapons to simply be that-- weapons that carried a certain psychological weight so as to make its user fight more efficiently without fear, hesitation, remorse, and other emotions which may distract on the battlefield-- not weapons that possess under the control of someone like Terumi. And it seems, if this is correct information, that I was dead on. This explains much of Jin's, Noel's, and Carl's behavior with their Nox Nyctores.