Raynex

I've been playing around with DP safe setups, since losing at RiiT5 in NY to a reversal spamming Leo. (I made it to top 8 btw, and was the only Venom to do so! It was a great experience, and LK was there and gave me great advice.) The DP safe oki that we know of currently: 6H xx H set midscreen, dash sj.S [BH] You can also do this off 2D at max range too, and it works vs. basically all reversals (haven't test supers). My new goal was to find DP safe okizeme that leads to continued pressure on block but leaves you far enough that you don't get grabbed / randomed out by buttons. To that end: Off any common 2D knockdown midscreen: - K set, hold K and teleport, perform a very early j.K or j.D [BH] after reappearing. It hits meaty and is DP safe (works vs Sol, Ky, Leo, Sin, etc etc). As you appear and do the aerial, begin charging downback. If they DP, the ball whiffs and you get a full punish. If the ball is blocked you can S Carcass and begin rushdown (you have a charge), or do whatever else you please. I tend to favour j.D BH her because firstly, it looks like you can hit Venom while he's doing the move itsef. 2nd, the ball hit makes it ricochet like an H carcass and they try to jump out sometimes, but it will hit meaty on it's way down and you get a combo if they try to escape or press buttons. - P set, dash forwards into your opponents body, teleport before they rise and j.S [BH]. This setup is great vs DPs and throw mashing. You set the P ball and dash into them and push their body further away from the ball, when you teleport you end up being far enough that all DPs whiff. If they try to throw, the ball hit will CH them usually and you can dash back in and convert. This is something I created and I'm having a lot of fun with it. Oh and anytime you use S set, P set, dash 5P double BH, you can block any standard DP. If they don't DP you can dash in and use the slow-moving balls to create pressure. Hope this new research helps!

Do you mean TK H set in neutral, then double jump neutral as well? The H set puts the ball far in front of you. I think you mean 66 for iad j.S right? I can't quite picture what you mean, but it sounds like it's an approach option. I actually like Blacksnake's method for cutting off zones and creating a wall. In neutral he'll do H Carcass YRC to lock down top to bottom midscreen, While it's bouncing he will charge a QV / 2 or 3 ball formation / Charge a stinger aim. They can't really challenge the H Carcass if they are further away, and charging a QV negates most projectiles and then you can hit it however you want to cut off even more space.

(PQV 5P BH)xN works so well because the blockstun from the BH gives you a better frame advantage than just the 5P alone. It's definitely not + or anything, but at the distance Fino's doing it, I don't think 2/5Ps or any fast normals actually reach. It's a pressure string that's 100% reliant on spacing. From what I've seen though, even if they successfully mash something out, it ticks you and the QV CHs and Fino is always able to 5P BH into 6H xx oki anyways. It seems to be low risk / high reward and a decent blockstring filler if you're not sure what you want to do to keep them blocking. You can also confirm into 5P BH, 6H on jump outs and transition to full combos. It's weird. I agree, there is an incredible amount of information on Venom. Organizing it is difficult. But I'm starting to see that there are certain setups which multiple oki paths, and those seem to be best. In this way you can create your own flow-chart. For example, I've been cutting corner combos short and doing 2 ball oki with 6H xx HQV, S set. There are like 4 pathways from that formation alone allow you to deal with virtually anything.

Hey all! I wanted to re-invigorate conversation about Venom tech. I've been practicing regularly over the last few months, but mainly I've been studying all those 1 and 2 hour long Fino videos to identify his setups / blockstrings / ways he catches corner escapes, etc. I have a large google doc compiled (which I will share when it's fully organized), but for now I'm going to share some of my favourite bits of the research. Hopefully this helps everyone! Blockstring Notes * Stinger Aim and Carcass Raid = SSA / HSA or SCR / HCR * bh = ball hit - ~PQV, 2S xx SSA / SCR - Hold 3 during dash in pressure for (2K)2D xx SCR. (On hit you can c.S(1) confirm, on block you keep advantage. Keeps you closer than other strings too) - f.S/2S/6H xx HDHM (catches jumps and mashing, confirm with RC) Corner specific blockstrings - 2S xx P set xN (Faultess Defense seems to be the only answer. It's a strong pressure reset tool) - (PQV, 5Pbh)x2/3 (Fino has been doing this lots in XrdR. Best done from max range 5P, against bigger chars or those with no good reversal. It's super annoying) - 5K, f.S, 2S xx SSA, f.S xx ball set of choice (just a solid blockstring I've seen him use) - SSA YRC, SCR, S set, 6H, H set, 5Pbh OKI *Double ball setups will be listed as "PK set, HS set, KP set" etc * bh = ball hit (e.g.: 5Pbh) * Stinger Aim and Carcass Raid = SSA / HSA or SCR / HCR * ~ = hold button down for auto teleport Midscreen 2D - P set~teleport, j.S (Baits DPs, ball hits meaty, very safe) - HK set, jf.Pbh, air Faultless Defense (DP and burst safe, pressures escapes and forces block on jumps, loses to run under) - P set, SSA [YRC], 5Pbh (ball hits meaty, dash in front of charged ball and throw before it hits or pressure) Fino 6H Corner oki (post-combo when you are further away) - P set, SCR, 5Pbh, 2S xx P set, 5Pbh (this is main setup and cannot be jumped. If they hold upback the whole string combos!) *If the above string is blocked: f.S xx any set / delay HCR, 5Kbh / dash throw / iad / TK madstruggle. Be creative! - Combo into 6H xx KQV for hard knockdown. Delay HCR (hits meaty), SCR, 5Pbh. (Be creative afterwards) I have loads more information, but I'm still organizing it all and collecting more data. Hopefully you all try this stuff out and have great results, I definitely have!

I'm having problems stopping iad pressure when I'm cornered, as 6P and AA 2H don't seem to work well at that angle. A specific example would be a Sol blockstring like: 2K,c.S,5H jc iad j.SH. It's a stronger iad string that catches me into a dp confirm if I jump out, or leads to more pressure if I block it. I've come up with 3 solutions but I don't know if they're good / if there are more alternatives. Mine seem risky / inconsistent based on my testing. - FD to push opponent out of range for 5H to hit, negating the jc - Blitz the iad aerial - Just Guard the JCable normal and airthrow Am I thinking about this correctly or can I do other things?

I've been using j.K but I think I might switch to j.S after trying it out. Aside from the basic delay iad / low mixup you get after this setup, I found that if you j.S BH asap after 6HS, the ball whiffs completely but it comes really really close to hitting the opponent's body. Too close to tell imo, and then you just land and throw them. It gives you a decent 3-way off of 6HS, K set ender

Alright, more tech! This time I really did test it extensively haha. I made sure all this worked 100%. - As Venom, you inevitably have to block and wait out your opponent's offense at some point. If they are being predictable with their projectile blockstrings (e.g.: Sol doing 2D xx gunflame, Ky doing f.S xx stun edge, or even Venom doing whatever xx Carcass) you can actually QV in the gaps and absorb the projectile + CH them. What I've noticed is that QVs have different range, and the K / S / H ones specifically hit more often than P, so go with one of those ones. I've recorded and tested this on various characters. When it seems like there is no way out, this can actually get you out for free + put a ball on the screen. Really strong momentum shift if used wisely! Match-up specifics I've been working on optimizing punishes against popular characters / common situations. Hopefully this helps! v Sol Bandit Revolver (qcf+K) mid-blockstring: - 6P beats it super consistently, and it's always CH. The optimized punish is CH 6P xx PQV, 5P, iad j.SHD, 6HS. Or easier CH 6P xx KQV, j.PH, land S Carcass for meaty pressure - CH2H(1) xx S Carcass, 66 delay j.SHD, 6HS (150ish). This is good if you were down-backing and have the charge already. - CH c.S(1), j.KSHD, 6HS. This one is for when it's right above your head and 6P looks questionable. c.S is fast and has a good vertical hitbox. - Instant block > 2D Bandit Bringer (hcf+K) mid-blockstring - The typical options don't seem to work because this move launches Sol so high. It has a deep hitbox too. The only real way to punish this is to jump, instant black, and airthrow. - Blitz Shield > whatever - FD more during blockstrings to push yourself into 6P range, where it will actually beat it clean. Only focus on this if it's been a problem during their offense. Kudakero (j,214K) - If you can get under Sol, or if he's already above you, you can very easily instant block > throw. The throw punishes him during recovery, between the flames. - CH 2H(1) xx S Carcass 866 or 66 j.whatever. This is good if you're already charging and he's obviously going to do it. Not hard to time either. 5D - 2D is the best meterless punish. - f.S xx H Stinger Aim RC > whatever. Metered punish v Ky: Greed Sever (214K) / Stun Dipper (236K) - 2D is the best meterless punish. If their blockstring pushed you further away, you get a guaranteed f.S / 2S xx into your move of choice. - f.S xx H Stinger Aim RC > whatever. Metered punish Vapor Thrust (623S/HS) on wake-up - This is old, but 2D low profiles Ky's DP. Give yourself some space to avoid being mash grabbed on wake-up. Crouch or dash towards Ky upon knockdown and input 2D xx S Carcass. If it's blocked / hits you get pressure. If Ky DPs, both hits of 2D whiff and carcass doesn't come out. You get a full c.S(3) punish when Ky lands.

Dai: I hadn't really read into attack levels, or how they factored into hit / blockstun. I looked at each individual move's frame data, recorded blockstrings using the dummy, and tried to mash in between with normals of different speeds. I'm glad you mentioned that. There are definitely holes in what I was trying, and this is probably one of them. Regardless, those 3 normals seem great for QV pressure in general. Godpress: Holy crap the meterless SQV corner conversions are blowing my mind. I thought CH QV was the only raw version of the move that allowed for combos. The interaction of the SQV ball placement for the j.KSHD to hit is beautiful. That's one of those things that reminds you why this character is so awesome. I just had a thought: will SQV, j.KSHD, etc. work as an airthrow BnB in the corner? The SQV will create a wallbounce post-throw, so the c.S(1) might not be necessary. I know you can do airthrow c.S(1), iad j.SHD and such, but this might be easier / more stable.

That BRO loop looks super swag. I wish it did more damage though haha I'm been wanting to submit this for discussion for a little while. I needed time to refine it and I'm glad to say I'm confident in it's effectiveness. More tech! Counter-Hit QVs and Frame Traps As most of you likely know, when you land a CH QV and you are in the middle of the screen you are rewarded with a wall bounce. All QVs produce the same CH wallbounce, actually. Midscreen, the only QV that allows a stable universal follow-up is PQV. The ball placement is such that a single 5P allows you to transition to any of the 866 base combos. Example: CH PQV, 5P [bH], 866 j.SHD, 6HS (149 dmg on Sol) In the corner you're going to switch to KQV. None of the other versions allow you to reliably convert into damaging combos. CH KQV still provides the wallbounce, while placing the Kball in the same height as all your other corner combos. Example: CH KQV, 5K, 6P, 6HS xx SQV, 5P, iad j.SHD, 6HS (182 dmg on Sol) So the conversions on these aren't that different from what we already do, and they afford us pretty amazing damage + the usual corner carry. But how on earth do you land CH QV?Frame traps! After extensive testing, I've found a few very important things: - 5HS / 2HS(1) cancelled into QV has at most a 1-2 frame gap. If you cancel it asap without any delay, it beats mashing 5P/2P and anything slower. Any kind of retaliation via P,K,S,HS moves gets completely blown up. HS is a heavy duty button, and I think this might be one of it's best uses. You can 5HS / 2HS(1) xx KQV in the corner and you into 150+dmg if they press anything. If they don't you're decently spaced and now have a ball set. - c.S xx QV during any 3 of it's hits creates a true blockstring. No mashing or normals of any kind that interrupt this pressure. The trick here is to slightly delay when you release the QV charge, and you can create custom openings for them to mash into. Jumps / backdashes are caught as well for a hard knockdown. I've playtested this quite a bit and the results are there, as long as you can condition them. You can always hold your QVs mid-blockstring and release them to coincide with button presses, but manually doing that can be risky / difficult. This testing I've done gives us all a base to start with, and I think it will go a long way to fleshing out this character in Xrd. Hope this helps!

Hey everyone. I unearthed some awesome tech that cranks utility out of 2H as an anti-air. After reading through some old GG threads I saw that combos were possible off CH 2H(1) xx S Carcass Raid and I tried to recreate them in Xrd. It's unbelievable effective if you have a read on a jump-in. Only downside is you have to be charging for a tiny bit beforehand, but after Carcass pressure or ball sets it's not too uncommon. Tested on Sol's jumping normals, all are anti-air situations, SCR = S Carcass Raid Midscreen: CH 2H(1) xx SCR, 6HS xx Ball set CH 2H(1) xx SCR, 866 j.SHD, 6HS xx Ball set (159dmg) Corner CH 2H(1) xx SCR, slight dash 6HS, any typical QV combo (200~dmg in most cases) CH 2H(1) xx SCR, 866 j.SHD, 6HS xx SQV, 5P, iadj.SHD, 6HS xx PQV, 6HS, set (218dmg) The SCR hits no matter what distance you AA from. These conversions are stable and damaging, and so far universal. You can do a 1/4th of opponent's life on an easy jump-in or iad read, or talk half their life in the corner. The best part is this goes right back into oki. The momentum / carry / damage this gives is just incredible. CH 2H(1) is freakin awesome!

^ Will do. Doesn't blitz shielding balls screw most setups though? I wonder what the patch has to say about wake-up blitz against setplay On the topic of corner formations, do you know if the KH formation, f.S xx teleport cross-up works consistently in the corner? The HS ball goes offscreen and sometimes I cross-up and sometimes I don't. Is that just me accidentally hitting the HS ball with my f.S or is it wonky sometimes?

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback! I shouldn't have used PK as an example; I use KP formation for corner oki quite alot. You're totally right as well, I should vary the setups to keep things different visually as well. Off PK formation I j.K the upper ball and blockstring to P ball / cancel to MS / tick throw after K ball is blocked. Or I 5K the P ball and j.S the K ball for meaty pressure and a decent 50/50. KP formation in my experience is really hard to react to. I try my best to go for KQV, P set, 5P, and use the low KBall for a teleport 3way: land 2K or 2D / iad j.SH / teleport empty and throw (this one is the cash money) I'm just starting out though so I'm trying to declutter my mind and focus on a few easy formations for now then expand later. You guys make great points

I came up with a corner-to-corner conversion on standing opponents. Really simple stuff that combines known routes to get Venom where he needs to be. Still allows for standard post-6HS okizeme! Starting with your back in the corner: 2K or j.S, c.S(3) 866 j.SHD, 6H xx H Double Head Morbid (3) [RC] 66 j.KSHD, 6H xx formation set

Fellow Venoms, I have a question! I'm in the lab working on okizeme, and I'm noticing that the 3 common KD enders (2D, 6HS, QV in corner) change the timing of certain setups. For example, if I end corner combos with 6HS P set K set as opposed to 6HS PQV K set, does that affect the application of the oki? It's important because in my experience, most combos that end in QV are shorter (you have to be closer to hit hard knockdown QVs). In return the setups are stronger because of more advantage post knockdown. On the other hand, almost every corner combo (especially the damaging routes) can end with 6HS from varying distances. But I don't know if I should do one over the other : /

I had no idea she had some of those options. Incredible stuff, I really appreciate it! I'm assuming for 5C > 2C / tk.j236C that 5C on block is jump-cancellable? If so that's awesome. Will also keep in mind the difference in using j.B and j.C. My goodness I love this character.

I think what I've been seeing is whiff throw to low. SKD does it and so do a few japanese Izayois on acho, but I couldn't figure out what they were whiffing mid dash to cancel the 66 momentum. Thanks for clearing that up! So following a basic confirm ending in Strike fall, should I just go into said mix-up or j.C safe jump? I'm trying to find tricky setups from her standard enders in gain art (with D sonic blade for example) but I'm not sure what to do.

Guys how do I mix-up into a low? 66 j.C for the overhead option but how to I fake and go low? 66 (whiff startup of j.C) 2A seems really slow. Is there a trick I'm missing out on?

You guys have been immensely helpful on my journey to become a better Azrael. At Toronto's first CP tourny my teammate and I got 2nd in 2v2 and I got 4th in singles, behind only the experienced BB CT players. The feedback I received on my match-up / combo questions were indispensable and you have my sincerest gratitude for pointing me down the right path, I really appreciate it. Up till now I've been getting by on being able to execute my game plan first and restrict breathing room, but it doesn't work against unfamiliar characters (which is the majority of them as I haven't played since CT) but I'll get there eventually. I was lucky enough to have a bunch of my matches streamed, so any kind of criticism would be awesome. Thanks again you fiends! http://www.twitch.tv/torontotoptiers/b/480688392 01:19 - Winners semis; myself vs. tournament champion 04:16 - 2v2 finals matches, I lead both times with DLC colour Azrael edit: and Zeth, all my MU related posts will be relegated to their proper subforums, my apologies

Thanks for all the help with the TCL and 3C stuff, things are more consistent now for me. Btw, has anyone experienced that weird floating Jin glitch with this combo (it works with other characters too)? 5B, 2C, 2B xx TC~236D6, 5C6, 6C6, j.C, 5B6, 623C, 3C, 6A, BHS. After the 3C/6A wall stick he randomly starts hovering in the air behind you. Its actually easier to get the glitch than to do the real combo, which is problematic haha. I saw this same glitch happen to Tahichi in a recent acho match vs. Jin (which shows the Japanese don't have an answer for it yet) and he just did BHS anyway, but now they're sent fullscreen : / Mod Edit: Match-up stuff moved to proper thread.

I'll give it a shot, thanks guys. In regards to 5C (max range) or 5BB xx Gustaf RC 3C combos, I've had similar issues with the 3C whiffing on smaller characters. Again Jin and Koko were who I experienced this with; the 3C wouldn't reach their shins even though I delayed the RC slightly to end up closer. However, against hakumen, Ragna, or another Azrael I could 'insert move' xx Gustaf from basically any range and the 3C would always connect without hassle. Should I omit gustaf RC combos against these characters? For some context, I use this optimized one in the corner for 4.7k if no weakpoints are applied: 5C xx Gustaf RC 3C, 2B~TCL, 5B, 2C, 5B, j.BC dj.D

Hey everyone, quick question. During corner combos (specifically 5b,2c, 2b TCL, 5b aerial and other similar ones) I had an issue today where the TCL would cause my opponent to go behind me. 5B aerial would connect but id be comboing them out of the corner which i want to avoid. This happened against jin, koko and kagura during casuals. It also makes the near corner TCL enders drop miserably (5bb TCL, 5B, 2C, 5B aerial) as tthe TCL keeps sending them behind me. Has anyone else experienced this? Help!

Yeah, you can airtech out but then you fall helpless into your opponent's loving arms. The main issue imo is that it turns even the simplest BnB into a stupid guessing game where the player in the air has to either blow a bar for C+D (which can be baited) or take more damage. You should be able to tech and block the next attack but...yeah

I've been playing this game for a few weeks and have been really enjoying it. I recently stumbled onto a game mechanic that has become problematic, and I was wondering if any of you noticed this. 1) Pretty much all normals are air unblockable. This isn't much of a problem normally, but we don't have barrier guard or anything similar. 2) This really becomes an issue in the corner. Doing Hikaru combos, I'll end with a j.D and land before my opponent. I can do a DP super immediately (or anything else I want) and delay it slightly for an inescapable reset. Even when I drop my combo whatever I do next will ALWAYS connect because its air unblockable. What is up with that? The weird thing is I've blocked in the air numerous times. So it's possible, but I don't always know why or when. (It works when you chicken block, for example). My friends and I have found this to be pretty damn scrubby. What's stopping people from just resetting a combo (even accidentally sometimes) using this, and how are we to know when they do it / how to escape it. To understand exactly what I mean, do a basic air string with your character and land, then literally do anything you want be it a normal/super/special.

On the topic of Elizabeth, I found out that you can slide under her 236A (giant laser) with 214C/D and OMB or OMC for a fat combo. If she has no burst that's an easy 70%.

Hey guys, question... When you're running 5D oki and you confirm an OTG situation, I've read that this is optimal: 2AB > 5D(OTG) > jump foward, land 2B > 5DD > 214B > dash 2AB > 5D(OTG) > j.B > 5DD > 2AB > 5D(OTG) > j.B (JC) > j.A > 5DD > j.2A Is this ENTIRE "combo" guaranteed if they decide to not tech the first 2A+B? Or is it simply a sequence of subsequent 5D OTGs if they don't tech 3 times? For clarification, I always assumed I could take any of those 3 OTGs and use them at my leisure. But on forum posts and videos I often see it all thrown together in one long "combo". Is there only a particular part I should be using? What is actually guaranteed? Halp!