Starfire
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About Starfire
- Birthday 09/04/1984
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Helsinki, Finland
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AstraFIN
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D.R.F. reacted to a post in a topic:
[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion
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D.R.F. reacted to a post in a topic:
[Xrd] Sol Badguy Gameplay Discussion
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The 6P should be timed and spaced so that it doesn't clash, because Sol can cancel the clash into anything, like 5K, FD block or another VV.
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I don't know if this was common knowledge already, but you can link TK SG off a close drill in the corner. This means you can use -K-, j.K, 2K, -P-, 22S, TK SG (1), -S-, SG (2) restand, 5D6 as a hit confirmable low mixup in the corner that does a bit more damage than the bnb one. The link is not that easy though, at least on normal weight chars. On block, it setups nobiru unsummon and leaves a puddle for a blockstring resummon.
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If you have meter, you can always punish with 2H, Amorphous. Not full combo damage, but still enough to hurt. However, just c.S, 5H (3), 22H or even just Damned Fang does alright damage and gives plenty of time for the shadow to recharge. If anything, DPing against a good Zato is almost guaranteed damage, because Zato can kind of option select bait it with shadow meaty + late 6P. If they block, proceed to pressure as normal, and if they DP, you will get a high CH 6P without giving them a chance to RC. You can then follow up with either sj.KHD or sj.KH Executor.
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If the opponent is in an airborne state where 2D and 22S will not knockdown, then something like 5D6, TK SG (1), -S-, SG (2) into wallslump might work. It would have the downside that you need over a Nobiru's worth of shadow gauge, so getting an UB off the second mixup in the corner is likely impossible, at least using that route. It also doesn't look like there's a huge amount of untechable time after the dust (in the video several of the combos went black), so getting the TK SG might not be a given either. I think the fastest TK SG is about 19f or 20f, so it isn't the fastest of attacks.
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To clarify, the whole sequence is 236, press S (unsummon starts), immediately release S (nobiru starts), nobiru hits, unsummon activates. It should be possible to do this with any button, but I think it's easier to just tap S as quickly as possible, rather than trying to press HS and release S at the same time. Then again, maybe something like 2, 236[H] + -S- would be reliable as well, I need to test! The closer the nobiru impact is to the unsummon activation, the bigger the advantage, up to a maximum of about +9 or +10. I can't think of an easy way to test which of those two is correct. We just need to find the most reliable input to start nobiru at the same frame with unsummon, or possibly one frame after. 236S with the shortest possible S press is the one I've been using, but maybe there are easier ones. EDIT: If the situation is +10, then maybe 13f moves like 6P and 5H would interrupt a 3f jump startup like Sol's such that the opponent is still on the ground. If that is possible, I think it would confirm that it's +10.
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I did some frame data testing with perfect nobiru unsummon. Perfect here means that the unsummon activates immediately after nobiru connects, leaving you with maximum advantage after the unsummon recovery. The easiest way to get it reliably is e.g. 2[P], 2[K], 236S. However, you have to cancel into unsummon from hitstop, and you must do it with the shortest S press possible. If you hold S even for a little bit, the shadow is unsummoned before nobiru connects and you're left at a big disadvantage. 9f moves like c.S, 2D and Drunkard will all combo on block (i.e. opponent never leaves blockstun), but I wasn't able to get 2H to combo. This means that nobiru unsummon is at least +9 on block, but less than +11. So it's either +9 or +10. This has the following implications: - 5P (5f) will always combo on block, even if the opponent IBs. The only way to escape is Dead Angle. You can always get a resummon off this, though not necessarily at full charge, except maybe with YRC. - 5K, 2K and 2D hit low and combo on block. If the opponent is mashing, trying to throw, jump or backdash, they will get hit. Have to experiment with good followups, maybe 2K, f.S, 5H into either drill or fresh resummon would be good. - Drunkard can only be interrupted with a DP or similar. However, you have to delay it for a little bit to get CH if the opponent goes for a throw. If you hit them in the back with nobiru unsummon, the opponent will usually be at point blank range for a long time, and it looks like you can throw, but you can't. Drunkard is -6 on block though, and it will lose to IB followed by a good OS throw like Sol 5K. - If you are out of throw range (in the corner usually), 2H and 5H will likely CH almost all non-invincible moves. 2H should also hit their jump startup, and 5H should hit backdash. They can also be cancelled into a resummon. - Imperfect nobiru unsummons should never be worse than neutral (without IB ) as long as unsummon is started before nobiru hits, and should usually give at least a small advantage. 5P, 2K and 2S should be strong at their optimal ranges. An especially nice setup for this is 22S, -S-, unsummon, as it leaves a puddle for resummoning right on top of them.
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On some reversals you could maybe get a CH 2H for big damage. It worked on Storm Viper in AC, and would probably still work at least on 1-hit DPs.
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If you don't have the shadow out, you should be playing keepaway until you do. If you do, I'd suggest watching what they do first. Some people will try to rush you down to avoid having to block shadow pressure. Against that, you don't have to approach and I think just fishing with nobiru, drills and 2H is often better and less risky. When you do have to approach, I think it's best to approach calmly by walking or dashing, using nobiru to cover and dodging projectiles with BTL, moguru (-H-) and jumps. A nice trick is to go into BTL and try to put the shadow behind your opponent with -H-. Then you can poke them in the back with nobiru.
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Does that 1-hit SG work on every character and/or is there some specific spacing involved? If it works, this looks more reliable than the 2-hit version. 2D, -P-, SG (1), -S-, SG (2) should also be possible, if somewhat difficult to execute. Much easier from an overhead hit, and leads to good damage because the high damage first SG hit connects.
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Faust is a difficult matchup to play correctly IMO. Some things you can try are summoning at full screen and then using -H- to navigate the shadow past items, and trying to get a drill puddle behind Faust and then doing a puddle summon and poking Faust in the back with the shadow. Against camping opponents I would suggest using a combination of far drills, -P- to poke from range and -H- to dodge attempts to destroy the shadow. You can also iad j.S or iad SG with Zato if you're feeling gutsy, but that involves more risk. Even a whiffed SG is surprisingly hard to punish if you can poke with the shadow to cover your recovery. If the opponent is throwing projectiles like Gun Flame from range you can try negating the projectile with a drill and then punishing the recovery with the shadow.
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I heard that the japanese players don't like the fact that opponents can burst from the unblockable to force neutral with the nerfed shadow recovery, plus that the damage reward is slightly less. They prefer controlling the match with a fresh resummon instead, which is kinda similar to Millia in a way. I wonder if this means that we'll start seeing something like -P-, SG (1), -S-, SG (2), wallslump, 5D6, unsummon, 5P, 2K, 22S, resummon off the first mixup eventually to maximize damage before unsummoning.
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Whenever you can get away with it! If you have room or if you can create it with e.g. a back airdash, you can H summon and try to react. If you're summoning in a riskier position (within iad range, opponent jumping in etc.) you can go for S summon to get the fastest possible Nobiru which can lead to juicy counterhits. Nobiru also has a big hurtbox so it also covers you from attacks if it has enough time to come out. If you have meter, you can also try a neutral YRC, BTL YRC or even a drill YRC to get the summon out more safely and to be able to react with it during the time stop. It's extremely hard to punish BTL YRC into summon unless you're very close to the opponent. And of course it's matchup dependent as well. Some characters can punish you easier and others have good tools for handling the shadow at range.
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The easiest way is to input 2S, 22P+H, tapping both buttons quickly at the same time. Little Eddie will do shadow P because of button priority, but Zato will do 22H because there is no 22P and 2S doesn't gatling into 2P.
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I guess you might have to extend the Shadow Gallery combo with a meaty 22S into a blockstring summon, but that's still pretty decent.
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BTL has what, 13 frames of startup before it's fully invincible. It's not that impossible to get gaps that long against many characters, especially with FD pushback or IB. It's not directly comparable to FD jumping in the sense that you need a much bigger gap and take a bigger risk because of the CH, but the reward is also bigger. FD jumping doesn't guarantee getting out of pressure safely. I'm not suggesting that you mash BTL during blockstrings, but I think it's a decent option if the enemy gets pushed back a bit and needs to get back in. If you do manage to get underground and have the YRC, I think you can often get into a decent position, even if you started in the corner. And obviously, don't do it defensively without YRC. Maybe it's just that the people I've been playing against don't know how to keep me from abusing it, but I've certainly gotten some mileage out of it defensively.