Leo Combos/Setup Discussion

[zankoku]

From rekka123 knockdown, you can do 669 j.K for a safejump.

[Kikuichimonji]

Does anyone know of some good okizeme options for Leo. I am decent at getting in doing my damage and mixing up the opponent but I always am stuck on what I can do to make them respect me on their wake up. The only option I can think of is to throw 46HS or 46S projectile to force them to get up blocking but I think that can be very obvious to bait and for them to react to. So are there any other viable options for oki or will I just need to go back to mixing them up as soon as they are standing again.

Throw/Rekkas > 236HS whiff > meaty bt.K makes every character block low because bt.K is throw invincible. Besides that, 6K is also a good meaty because 6K is also throw invincible.

I'm also experimenting with immediate j.D as a meaty for the same reason, but you probably don't need to try that.

[Kikuichimonji]

Near corner, when they get that really high wallsplat from counter, the best combo I found was 22 (exit BT) dash j.S (2) (jc) j.K j.H j.236H

On crouchers: 5K cl.S 6K 5P 5K f.S 5HS rekkas = 161 Damage

[DarkZero197]

I actually saw axis the beast at a local tournament do after rekkas, HS fireball yrc, then 6HS so they wake up into it and get a borderline unseeable high low from there.

So there's that, in the corner you can do the same thing, fireball yrc. You don't necessarily have to stance because you can go low or dust, but you can still do the same mixup

You don't even have to do the fireball in the corner truth be told, you can just do HS into stance and pick high or low, (keep in mind some characters have good reversals so take that into account)

Meaty BT.K beats most wake up options that aren't invincible reversals like sols uppercut and the like

If they are waking up with buttons or dp you have a counter so all it takes is one read and you can smoke a lot of players in one or two reads

Another note about the corner, sometimes when I combo into rekkas, I'll do 236HS whiff and then 6K, catches a lot of people mashing, in addition to it being plus on block

[Kinkuli]

There are few potential problems from what i've tested with the rekka ender into 46HS YRC oki. For one to get into a situation where you actually can mix someone up effectively means you have to use a move which you can link/gatling easily into 5D or 2K/2S. From what i tried out (i haven't tried out 6HS yet, will do that later) to get into this position you have to be near enough to the opponent and use something like 5K/6HS etc. but it leaves you open for just them throwing you out of the mixup. The same holds true for 46HS YRC 236HS which you can be thrown out of. But like said i haven't tried out using 6HS and it could be good choice and might force opponent to respect you. 

 

Another problem it could have is that you are spending precious meter to gain access to a potentially subpar mixup. The meter you spend could have been saved to use 46HS YRC in neutral to help you get in, 46S YRC for poking and making it safe, or stance super which you can use to deal massive dmg with correct confirms. 

 

Also when you consider the possibility of opponent using an blitz shield just to call out your meaty which means you have to RPS twice in the process. First RPS between reversal blitz/DP and then RPS with high/low which is not that good imo. All in all i wanna really like the setup as i also spend a lot of time trying things out with it, but if they can just throw/blitz you out of it, then i would just go for 236HS since if you need to play RPS, i'd play that RPS game in the situation that is most advantageous for leo.

 

PS. Generally on crouchers you probably want to use 5K c.5S f.5S 2S 5HS into rekka. i'm fairly sure it does same or even more dmg than doing the 6K 5P link.

[Kikuichimonji]

There are few potential problems from what i've tested with the rekka ender into 46HS YRC oki. For one to get into a situation where you actually can mix someone up effectively means you have to use a move which you can link/gatling easily into 5D or 2K/2S. From what i tried out (i haven't tried out 6HS yet, will do that later) to get into this position you have to be near enough to the opponent and use something like 5K/6HS etc. but it leaves you open for just them throwing you out of the mixup. The same holds true for 46HS YRC 236HS which you can be thrown out of.

There's a setup in here where he does 46HS YRC, dashing 6K, crossup 236HS, (fireball hits) bt.S rekkas

http://youtu.be/Q_6CwVqMQbw

 

The opponent is at least forced to respect you on wakeup because of 6K.

 

PS. Generally on crouchers you probably want to use 5K c.5S f.5S 2S 5HS into rekka. i'm fairly sure it does same or even more dmg than doing the 6K 5P link.

Slashes version does 165 damage versus 161, but doesn't work or does less if you get f.S from 5K, and f.S > 6K will combo on crouchers. In addition, you have more than enough time to confirm that they're crouching from the 6K, and it's a good place to stop your string anyway if they blocked. And if they get hit standing and you gatling to f.S you lose a lot of damage and have to take 2D.

[Kinkuli]

There's a setup in here where he does 46HS YRC, dashing 6K, crossup 236HS, (fireball hits) bt.S rekkas

http://youtu.be/Q_6CwVqMQbw

 

The opponent is at least forced to respect you on wakeup because of 6K.

Well yeah if they don't have meter. But if they have meter then they could just reversal blitz. The setup there is fine and all but i am 99% sure Hase could have thrown nage out of 236HS. Nage was getting away with A LOT of 236HS anyway when one can just throw em once you get the hang of things (which can be hard no doubt). Hase probably just doesn't have that much Leo exp yet so he was probably not sure what he could punish and how. But i mean by all means you can use these setups if your opponent doesn't know how to escape them. 

 

Also yeah sometimes 5K into 5S gets you far 5S but you can always delay using 5S a bit so you travel further during the hop animation of 5K. I believe zidane mentioned this in his Leo primer. 6K as an ender is OK at best really. Even though it's +4 on block, it leaves you so far that it is hard to do anything smart afterwards, especially if they decide to FD you. 

 

But generally just use whatever you feel most comfortable with. I don't personally have problems hitconfirming and using the 5S f5S 2S route.

[C4IQ]

To over come leo oki problem been working on a safe jump option. What move should I try this on? I've used a few including sol dp and it works. Befor I record is there anything I should be testing this on for it to be legit?

[Kikuichimonji]

Does anyone have a corner Dust combo that does more than 144? This combo works on Elphelt and Sol at least, and I'd assume it's universal:
5D 6 cl.S 5H 6H 5P 5K cl.S f.S 5H 236S 236H 214S

Also, I'm pretty sure this is Leo's optimized damage after a 3-hit string into 5H in the corner:
http://youtu.be/sJgorbrBxsE
5K cl.S 5H [2]8H RRC j.D (whiff) j.D 6[H] bt.S 214S 2[8]H (245 damage)

And no, I didn't add the j.D in there just because that move is mostly useless and I wanted to find a use for it. It adds like 4 damage, I swear!

But seriously, I think the j.D > 6H route is best for basically every RRC combo in the corner. You can also use j.D > 6H after backturned super in the corner. bt.H 632146S run j.D 6[H] bt.S 214S [2]8H did 258 on Elphelt. bt.H 632146S run j.D 6[H] bt.S 214S cl.S (jc) j.K j.236H did 257, which is less than bt.H 632146S 66 6[H] bt.S 214S cl.S (jc) j.K j.H j.236H did 259, though. So the j.D is basically worth adding if you're not going for a Siegesparade (j.236H) ender.

To over come leo oki problem been working on a safe jump option. What move should I try this on? I've used a few including sol dp and it works. Befor I record is there anything I should be testing this on for it to be legit?

Elphelt's 236236D is 4 frames, which is slightly faster than Sol's H Volcanic Viper, but if you can safe jump Sol's VV consistently then you're pretty much set to safe jump anything else.

[zankoku]

5D > 6 > c.S > f.S > 5H > 6H > 5P > f.S > 5H > 236S~236H~214S
148 damage on Sol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sovsfKaAr94

[Kikuichimonji]

5D > 6 > c.S > f.S > 5H > 6H > 5P > f.S > 5H > 236S~236H~214S

148 damage on Sol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sovsfKaAr94

Now I feel silly for not adding a f.S after the homing dash.

 

I added 3 damage:

 

5D cl.S f.S 5H 6H 5P 5K cl.S f.S 5H 236S 236H 214S

 

Also, you can get 145 or so just by doing 5D 6 cl.S f.S 5H cl.S f.S 5H 236S 236H 214S. I think this is his best combo after say a random j.236H hit that you RRC near the corner because the normal homing dash stuff won't work. You just get pushed back too far for the 5P link.

[nos99]

Sup dudes. New poster here...

What safe jump setups are you guys doing? After midscreen rekkas I find dashing jump can work.. but other times I end up jumping over them. Not having a real cross up kinda sucks. :/

Are there any canned or natural safe jump setups?

Also speaking of safe jumps, they seem really easy to eyeball in this game compared Capcom games (where I'm coming from). I know that most wakeup special have more startup, but can anyone point me to finding out how landing frames work? Landing recovery seems basically nonexistent.

[Destin]

That's the ticket, there is no landing recovery. Have a good time sting a game that doesn't feel like complete molasses!

[nos99]

None? Wow. So I can always block as long as I touch the ground? Good to know!

[Kikuichimonji]

Sup dudes. New poster here...

What safe jump setups are you guys doing? After midscreen rekkas I find dashing jump can work.. but other times I end up jumping over them. Not having a real cross up kinda sucks. :/

Just want to note that j.K can cross up if timed well.

 

Are there any canned or natural safe jump setups?

Only time I really go for safe jumps is after rekkas or bt.214S in the corner. Also, I don't do the safe jump all the time. Often I go for the 236H whiff > backturned oki stuff. After Leo's throw, I always double dash > backturned oki unless I'm doing HS fireball YRC stuff.

 

Also speaking of safe jumps, they seem really easy to eyeball in this game compared Capcom games (where I'm coming from). I know that most wakeup special have more startup, but can anyone point me to finding out how landing frames work? Landing recovery seems basically nonexistent.

Yeah, the lack of landing recovery is pretty much the biggest difference between SF4 and Xrd safe jumps, as well as the fact that reversals are typically 5 frames or slower. I believe that when you jump, your first 2 landing frames cannot be cancelled into movement, just like SF4, but you can cancel them into attacks or blocking (whereas in SF4 you're completely vulnerable). I looked for the document on this for around fifteen minutes, but I couldn't find it even with Google, and I don't remember where I learned it from anyway.

[nos99]

What is your setup after bt.214H?

I've also been messing around with using 5k > 2H as my hit confirm. Combo into rekkas on hit (or even on block because they're pretty safe?), and I can also late cancel the 2H into projectile too. I dunno, maybe not good, but 2H seems to have more range that close 5S so it drops less?

I'm still noobing it up over here but I'm finding Leo super fun. Not nearly as intimidating as the other characters either for us players that are used to only hitting 4 buttons in a combo.

[Kikuichimonji]

What is your setup after bt.214H?

Usually I just go for 5K cl.S after the unblockable. If they actually mash out of the stagger and block consistently (nobody really does this that I play yet), I'll go for a throw, crossup 236H, or 5D to keep them guessing. But cl.S and 6K are both plus and leave you with good options on block, so going for the black beat combo after the unblockable doesn't cost you much in terms of mixup opportunities.

I've also been messing around with using 5k > 2H as my hit confirm. Combo into rekkas on hit (or even on block because they're pretty safe?), and I can also late cancel the 2H into projectile too. I dunno, maybe not good, but 2H seems to have more range that close 5S so it drops less?

Don't use 2H to confirm. If you delay the cancel from 5K to cl.S, you'll get cl.S much more consistently. This only fails at the very tip of 5K range, and at that range I believe that 2H whiffs too. You can't delay 2H the same way because it's slower, so it won't combo if you delay it.

Also yeah 236S is safe on block, but if they Instant Block it and hit a fast button, you can only 236H (second rekka), Eisen Sturm, or Blitz Shield to interrupt. So while 236S is a good place to stop a blockstring, if you're predictable with it you can completely lose momentum when you could have stopped your string earlier and kept attacking. If you have meter, you can just do all three rekkas and RRC the third one to keep doing stuff, but otherwise rekkas are pretty risky in terms of pressure options. A lot of the time, I'll do 236S and backdash just to reset to neutral.

[C4IQ]

[2]8H YRC SetUp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APWpj2ombpE

 

Safe Jump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D-uXtBpP5k

 

Leo Whitefang Google Doc (In progress)

and feedback/input will be great

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-4gRe-gdOZiMK6F9maKYtBTH3H9Ec2PCqOH-rDOaDDY/edit#

[Uncivilized Elk]

Back after a break, is the optimal midscreen universal combo off 5K still K cS fS H [2]8H RC jD(whiff) 6H K S jK djKH 236H?
Or is there something else discovered now? 

 

[Kikuichimonji]

Back after a break, is the optimal midscreen universal combo off 5K still K cS fS H [2]8H RC jD(whiff) 6H K S jK djKH 236H?

Or is there something else discovered now?

Yeah pretty much.

[Uncivilized Elk]

Also I fudged that and meant to tyoe K cS H without the fS in there.
And cool, good to know. Now to go learning that stylin' corner version of the midscreen one.
(And to go online and fail to get the charge to come out 50% of the time! Woo!)

[C4IQ]

Back after a break, is the optimal midscreen universal combo off 5K still K cS fS H [2]8H RC jD(whiff) 6H K S jK djKH 236H?

Or is there something else discovered now?

It's tricky but instead of 5K starter you can get 5CS, 6P, 5CS, 5H etc. (5CS comes out quicker the 5K and can combo into its self on counter hit) You can also squeeze another JD between the Whiff JD and 6H.

[Kikuichimonji]

It's tricky but instead of 5K starter you can get 5CS, 6P, 5CS, 5H etc. (5CS comes out quicker the 5K and can combo into its self on counter hit) You can also squeeze another JD between the Whiff JD and 6H.

You're not going to get a full Eisen Sturm RRC combo after that many hits. It would be best to just do cl.S 5H Eisen Sturm so you can get the full 6H 66 5K cl.S (jc) j.K (jc) j.K j.H j.236H combo.

[C4IQ]

You're not going to get a full Eisen Sturm RRC combo after that many hits. It would be best to just do cl.S 5H Eisen Sturm so you can get the full 6H 66 5K cl.S (jc) j.K (jc) j.K j.H j.236H combo.

It's only one additional hit, It does work. I shall record it and add it to my leo guide.

[Kikuichimonji]

It's only one additional hit, It does work. I shall record it and add it to my lei guide.

I recorded a bunch of optimized Leo combos today. Adding the 6P cl.S rep to combos using Eisen Sturm RRC consistently reduced his damage compared to leaving it out. You have to remove a hit from the air juggle in order to make the Siegesparade ender connect.

I'll upload them when my internet stops messing up.