vs Venom

[Tiamat]

Discuss Venom matchup here.

[NecroTheReaper]

Lets get this started

Found out the other night how much of a nightmare CR pressure is. Do his pressure strings have any real "mash here" points? I feel like tk MS can be mashed on with our 5P, but finding good Venom's is hard to do.

Also, as for his neutral... it seems like we have a whole lot of "bad" options against him. 2/3HS sound usable, but projectiles get nullified pretty fast against him, and dash parry doesn't seem very effective against him.

[Tiamat]

FDing his normals is helpful but I dunno a mash point.

If you are doing projectile wars with him you should do the air Task A and just keep doing it repeatedly if it is being intercepted.

[GKHiryu]

Anyone has any tips on what to punish with dash teleport? I know that from up close all his ball shots are unsafe, but that's not much to work with as they're usually done in blockstrings. Fullscreen I tend to do task A to entice him to shoot again and then go for 3H > Task A, but that's about it when it comes to my matchup knowledge.

[NecroTheReaper]

His specials, unless he's using too much HS stingrer, aren't very good to be dashing into imo. Guard point still counts as a blocked move, so he can still do whatever safe option. Balls are only as safe to dash into as the move he hit them with. You'll get plenty of chances to use dash in this MU, but a lot of places dont get you a punish

[Tiamat]

Anyone know what to do to beat his 6P?  Like round start for example.  What can I do?

[Slim_Chance]

Tiamat you can try jump back at round start, let them wiff the 6p and then do 96s to try to punish. Usually I just back off though because venoms round starters seem to beat bedmans clean. I've been playing this mu alot and really you just have to play a really good game of dodge ball until you get  him to either block something or you read a ball and get 2h or 3h into maul imo.

[NecroTheReaper]

From round start position, I'm pretty sure 2S should net you a CH into immediate corner if he opens with 6P. Its slow, so obviously not just an "I win" button, but the threat for venom to get immediately cornered can discourage him from trying to do too much round start 6P. Should beat all of his specials except for HS stinger as well. His normals will still more than likely beat yours at round start, but at least it'll keep him honest.

Plus (if this works like how I think I remember) I think his 2S will mutually eiff with your 5K and leave you at advantage if done same frame. Might be wrong about this, I dont get to play many venom players

[Tiamat]

Unfortunately although 2S does beat 6P at round start you won't get a counterhit so you can't combo.  Glad I finally got some responses though lol.  

[NecroTheReaper]

I think it can CH, but its definitely not reliable. Also seems like a delayed 2D will give you a KD from this range. Bedman's head oulls back enough out of his 6P's range lol

After testing, his 2S does beat our 5K :/ however 2P seems to have enough range to beat it, and is a pretty safe move in general.

[Mefistopheles]

I have no idea how to approach this matchup. His neutral game is way too strong:

 

- Jumping over balls is pointless because Bedman is really slow in the air. Venoms 6p and 6hs seems always ready

- Dashing in balls won't work either. A smart venom player will take a brief pause before he shoots another ball. Since the tele dash has so much recovery, venom will start another blockstring

- Ground normals / footsies won't always reward, cause i find myself often get hit by a approaching ball after i could score a hit

- You gonna die in the corner unless you manage to create a gap with ib and teleport out

 

If you can knock him down, you better don't let him play anymore. Could be Bedman's toughest matchup.

 

Help guys. I need some ideas

[Tiamat]

I think generally you don't want to be trying to get at him unless he makes a big mistake.  Do fireball wars and use 3H until he comes to you.  I think Slim's post was right, you have to play dodge ball.  The dash is still good but you have to know when is a good time to do it.  If you see that he is moving/intending to move behind a ball(s) he sets going forward and you can go into the ball that will mess up his setup.  If he's just chilling there waiting for you of course you'll be in a bad spot.

 

Against his oki reversal Blitz or Helios is useful.  Blitz will stagger some common oki setups where he does the air ball when he's coming from the air, though he has things that don't cause him to get staggered.  I think Helios is prettymuch flawless if he's in the air, I don't think he can do anything but block it.  

 

Also, he has the fastest face up wakeup speed in the game, and all bedman's knockdowns are face up except 2D.  Make sure you take this into account when doing your oki.  (this is just general comment not in response to your post)