AC: General Strategies and Tactics

[Beowulf]

Hey Digital any chance we'll get to see a vid of your new Raeisageki discoveries?

Sure, if I get some video-recording equipment.

Still waiting for them, eh ? ^^

[Digital Watches]

Still waiting for them, eh ? ^^

Yes, unfortunately. I have a capture card now, but I'm looking for free software... and also seem to lack the knowhow to set it up.

[Beowulf]

Just record yourself with the best quality possible... You'll see later for the software. Get your videos recorded while you still have time. You'lle see, the arrangement part is the fastest ^^

[Digital Watches]

No, I mean I don't have drivers for the card... Or splitters for my inputs. Although NWM is coming up and Woki is trying to record all of it. Maybe I can use some of his equipment before/after to do a little tutorial.

[Beowulf]

That'll be nice, as many Raieisageki S are unclear to me (like that combo mid screen with the air dash-> j.HS... I can't get it without a corner !)

[Beowulf]

2. This is pure conjecture, but I've been messing with it for around an hour, and this is the conclusion I've come to: The three separate frames of the Raeisageki FRC are each different in what they will do when the move is jump-installed

My other working theory is that it has nothing to do with the frame on which the move is FRC'd, but instead with how recently in the course of the move Axl crossed up the opponent. Maybe the game takes a little while after the characters have switched sides to allow the jumping character to turn around, which could also account for this.

I have an other one... And it seems closer to what I manage to do :

Isn't it weird ? I mean, if you 5+K, c.S-> 8-> 5+HS, Raiesageki S you are sure to do a back dash if you crossed the opponent...

the only times I manage to do a forward dash when he slides is... when I do stand alone JI Raieisageki !

This is my theory : the only way to do a forward dash when crossing is when you do stand alone Raieisageki. (The move seems more dynamic when he flies...)

I think the dash makes you turn faster or something.

What do you think DW ?

[Adelheid]

After reading that I immediately went to test, having thought I'd done it at least a few times in the past... I actually couldn't forward dash after JIing with that exact string, but using f.S instead of HS, I succeeded once... I kept screwing up my timing after that and couldn't reproduce it (probably because I typically play on the stick, but had to do the tests on a pad as my stick doesn't have a functional down right now), though, but still, it definitely can be done when not in neutral.

[Beowulf]

I thought of something about the 8 input (6321478+S instead of 632147+S) When I do the 1st motion I get the right facing, with the other I dont... Is what I'd like to say, but sometimes when I look at the input on the screen, I get some contradictions... AND I can't get that with a string. If the 8 thing is true, then it could mean adding 8 would make the game considering that Axl did a normal jump at the FRC making him face the right direction... And in fact, when doing Raieisageki JI in a string, jumping after the hit does make Axl face the right direction... So it CAN be explained like that (and the contradictions on the screen just mean that it's not a reliable thing when the input are done too fast) We definitively should try that on input recording sticks to figure out...

[Digital Watches]

Don't rule out that it could have to do with how early in the move you actually cross over the opponent. I'd be interested to know the results of this research (I don't have a programmable controller at my disposal)

[Beowulf]

Well easy. If your theory is correct, then the nearer you are to your oponent at the begining, the more likely you are to turn around.

I tried it by recording my input and doing the same move from different places... Doesn't work !

Still, I think I got it.

First thing first : I was only able to do forward dash after a stand alone Raieisageki S, and I'm almost sure it's the only way to do so. Why ? Because you can't do it otherwise.

I think we all got tricked by that. Honestly, do the following :

5+K, c.S/6+P (JI), 5+HS/f.S, Raieisageki S

Did you turn ? No way ! Whatever the distance, whatever the input, there's no way you did it.

"Yes, but I can do it with an other gatling"

-> Ok, then what ? If you didn't manage to it with the previous, there's no other way to JI it to face forrward with THAT methode.

I'll tell you why you managed to think that. With this new gatling :

5+K, c.s (JI), Raieisageki S

Ok you tried ? So ? What, you made it ? Bravo ! But what ? Not every time ? Too bad... I'll even tell you when it failed : when you made the input as fast after the c.S as possible.

What, it's correct ? Yeah I know it is, I'm a genius ^^

-> All right I'll stop the joking. In fact, it does work after the c.s, not because it's a Jump cancelable move, but because you made a stand alone Raieisageki S at the end of the recovery of the c.S

You can try it with a gatling that ends with 6+P or c.S. The best I found is :

5+K, c.S, 6+P or 5+K, 6+P, c.S

The first is best against low crouching characters, as the 6+P must be recovered anyway.

Now that you are a bit convinced, let's see what input you actually made :

What counts is how fast you input the 632147+S. I think it has something to do with the super jump. As it is input 28 (quick) the 2...7 in the JI'ed Raieisageki S recreates a super jump... Now, why does it make him face the right direction, I don't know... Still, it's more likely to be that, as if you do the 632147+S in slow motion, you don't get Axl to face the enemy...

So to put it short :

- Normal JI'ed Raieisageki makes Axl face always the wrong direction. It gives you either a jump (only one) or an air dash. You can do it as a stand alone (632147+S) or install the jump in a combo (after c.S or other) and special cancel your combo with 63214+S.

- Super JI'ed Raieisageki makes Axl face the way of his opponent. You can only do an air-dash after the hit (no jump allowed as it's a super jump installed). The only way to do it is as a stand alone move, with a faster execution : 632147+S. You can't JI it that way in a combo, but you can make it look like it if it is done at the end of not long recovering move.

Although it is a theory and needs to be proved with a programmable controller, I'm almost sure it goes like this. Just try it yourself ^^

EDIT : Added the explanation for the "super JI'ed Raieisageki" (I like how it sounds this way ^^)

[Digital Watches]

Heh. You appear to be right on most of that (Though I'm not see where you're getting the 6321478 = forward dash thing. My input is 100% consistently 632147S on the naked one, and I get a forward dash every time.) The reason you can't double jump if you do it a certain way actually has more to do with input speed: Basically, if you install a superjump by making the game count the upward direction too quickly after one of the downward directions that naturally occur because of the half-circle, you've installed a superjump, meaning that you have the options you'd normally have from a superjump (Airdash, but no DJ) Anyway, all this backdash stuff is probably a good reason to learn an advanced input: Air backdash instant Kokuu (63214[4]S) I previously only thought it was useful for air poking games, but this is a good reason to learn it for crossups off of this JI stuff.

[Beowulf]

I edited my post. As I can see, it does seem that the super jump install explains this. Now that everything is explained (or so ^^) You should do a special topic for the Raieisageki S, as most of your informations are spread in different pages of this topic... And after all, it IS one of the best move Axl got in AC ^^ It would be a nice way to explain how to mix up with the FRC's, as getting a combo from it is greatly rewarding ! (picking up with a forward dash j.HS is SOOOO stylish ^^) Nice the kokuu thing ^^ I'm definitively trying that !

[Digital Watches]

I like it. I'll have to test to see if you're right about the SJI stuff before I write a definitive guide, but that adds a new dimension to the mixup if what you say is true.

[Digital Watches]

Hmm... weird. My SJI input may just be inconsistent... but I can sometimes forward dash after an SJI, but sometimes I get backdash. On regular JI, however, I only get the backdash.

[Beowulf]

For the forward dash, just do the normal input you consistently do 632147S on the naked one. As you seem to do it fast enough to get the super Jump install for the forward dash. Of course, normal jump install only grants you to face the wrong direction... So you'll only have a backdash. BTW, there's no way to do a super jump install in a combo right ? Like 5+K, c.S-> super jump install-> 5+HS-> Raieisageki S-> FRC-> faces the right direction ^^ I'm wondering if 5+K, c.s-> super jump install may work, so that the raieisageki would cancel the move, and we won't have to wait for it's recovery to end ...

[Digital Watches]

For the forward dash, just do the normal input you consistently do 632147S on the naked one. As you seem to do it fast enough to get the super Jump install for the forward dash.

Of course, normal jump install only grants you to face the wrong direction... So you'll only have a backdash.

BTW, there's no way to do a super jump install in a combo right ?

Like 5+K, c.S-> super jump install-> 5+HS-> Raieisageki S-> FRC-> faces the right direction ^^

No, I can always face the right direction by superjump installing a naked Raei, but I'm saying my execution of it in a combo is inconsistent. You can definitely SJI mid-combo, just do c.S 28H or something. What's really hard is c.S 282P.

I'm wondering if 5+K, c.s-> super jump install may work, so that the raieisageki would cancel the move, and we won't have to wait for it's recovery to end ...

Er... I dunno what you're talking about with the recovery ending stuff. I don't think anyone was ever getting an SJI from c.S because the move ended, it's because it's JCable.

[Beowulf]

Er... I dunno what you're talking about with the recovery ending stuff. I don't think anyone was ever getting an SJI from c.S because the move ended, it's because it's JCable.

I mean you can only get Axl to face the opponent after a Raieisagki S FRC if you super jump installed it. (easiest is with a stand alone 632147+S)

But, I only manage to combo c.S into a Raieisagki S FRC that faces the right direction if the c.s is not canceled by the Raieisagki S (which means its done as a stand alone again !)

If I cancel from it (or from any other move) I get an Axl that faces the wrong direction (thus getting a backdash...)

I don't know if that's because I do the input wrong (632147+S during c.S just like a stand alone input) but that's what I get.

P.S : I'll try the super jump install in 5+K, c.S, 5+HS later to see that.

[Digital Watches]

Yeah, I know that's what we're talking about. I'm saying that's input error, not a matter of letting the move end. Also, I think that even with a SJI, there's another factor (possibly the crossing distance) that can get you a backdash. Either way, if it doesn't work in a combo, the SJI theory isn't the whole story.

[Sking]

Uff!! the Raei S stuff looks hot, and can be ver, very useful. I tested in some casuals and works great, and looks flashy, and if you do the double crossover: 5k, S.c, (SJI)632147+S, frc, dash(crossing the opponent again) kokku frc, bla, bla, bla. That combo can be kind of tricky to get the dash to cross the opponent again but no so hard. And a plus to that is that you can do the kokku crossup if you see that Raei is blocked, and you can look more broken if you add a throw after the Raei frc.

[Silmerion]

I like the second thing about when Raiei(S) is blocked, but comboing with a Kokku FRC seems like a waste of tension to me. Depending on where you are, you can get a perfectly good BnB combo or B-loop for 25%.

[Digital Watches]

Heh. I hear an echo in here.

[Beowulf]

I can't manage to super jump install in a combo like : 5+K, c.S (sJI), 5+HS, Raieisageki S-> FRC No matter what, I only get a jump install (I can see that by doing a jump after the FRC). When should I input the 28 motion ? EDIT : Never mind, I got it to work sometimes. Still, I see that Axl doesn't face the enemy... So Super jump install itself doesn't explain it. But I'm quite sure your idea of "how early he crossed the player" is wrong. As if you do 6+K (1 hit) 632147+S (fast)-> FRC you get to cross and face the opponent whatever the distance. So it can only be done in a gattling after a jump cancelable move ?

[Sking]

comboing with a Kokku FRC seems like a waste of tension to me. Depending on where you are, you can get a perfectly good BnB combo or B-loop for 25%.

Ok, but if the opponent block the Raie+S, yo can do the kokku crossup or a non-crossup kokku!!

@Beowulf: I had the same problem with the SJI Raie+S, I don't think if this only works for me but what I do to solve the Problem is this:

5K, S.c, (SJI) Raie+S, frc. airdash(if I see that Axl do a back dash insted, I do a kokku frc or land 2K/ 5K) Crossup or non crossup kokku/land throw/J.HS/J.P, J.K/land 5K.

If life give you lemons do lemonade

[Digital Watches]

Well yeah, but as long as we're experimenting, we may as well try to figure it out... The theory that it only works off a JCable move may hold some water.

[Beowulf]

Seriously, isn't there any info we could get on that from Japaneses ? Don't tell me nobody tried to experience that ! Nothing in the last Arcadia neither ? ^^