Tsak Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 blade im highly suspicious that your just raising post count for whatever reason...? cuz that had no relevance whatsoever to what was being talked about .....
MadRhetoric Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 Never been hit out of D by Ragna's inferno divider even though he does indeed do it everytime to get out of your counter. Sometimes I think after recovery he's still in it and you have to block it but I'm not really certain since I haven't fought computer Ragna since beating score attack, I just know I always counter then punish his divider to do more damage than the counter would have done in the first place.
Blade Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Okay Ragna5B just taught me how evil guardstrings can be and how easily they turn in to combos...my Haku must beat him now!!
MisoSowee Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Okay Ragna5B just taught me how evil guardstrings can be and how easily they turn in to combos...my Haku must beat him now!! 1.IB the first hit of 5d 2.2d/6d 3.???? 4.PROFIT! although it can be hard sometimes D:
Blade Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Uhhh....no. I'm talking about stuff like 6D jD 5B 6A....it's crazy good.
MisoSowee Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Uhhh....no. I'm talking about stuff like 6D jD 5B 6A....it's crazy good. oh.. well personally i don't face ragnas enough, but it looks like 6d-jd is counterable even on non-IB... though i'm not sure. whenever i fight ragna (whenever that may be ) ill just block his strings, counter predictable attacks, or bait anti airs....works fine enough for now
ryokoalways Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Do not try to catch second hit of 5d all the time. 5d can be dashed canceled on both hits so if you spam it you are going to eat 4k for no reason. They can also just revolver after first hit, but that's the less safe option. As for 6d jd, unless jd is delayed by alot, IB won't allow you to catch in the string. In most situations, it's much better to just keep blocking if he manages to get a 6d out. That's probably the most annoying thing for hakumen to block because he can work off a lot of his better mxiup options from that block string.
MisoSowee Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Do not try to catch second hit of 5d all the time. 5d can be dashed canceled on both hits so if you spam it you are going to eat 4k for no reason. They can also just revolver after first hit, but that's the less safe option. As for 6d jd, unless jd is delayed by alot, IB won't allow you to catch in the string. In most situations, it's much better to just keep blocking if he manages to get a 6d out. That's probably the most annoying thing for hakumen to block because he can work off a lot of his better mxiup options from that block string. oh. i had no clue. i need to fight more ragnas.....
Senovit Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Some weird shit just happened to my roommate and me while we were in this matchup. I was in the left corner and used a random Carnage Scissors after falling onto the ground after an air tech, and he countered the first hit of it with Yukikaze. However, instead of hitting me, his Yukikaze blew straight past me and I continued to use Carnage Scissors, although it missed him completely since he was on the left side after whiffing the Yukikaze. He was not in mugen, and I don't believe I was in Blood Kain, although I might have been. I've been trying to replicate this in training mode, and I've found that I can't. My roommate and I think it might have something to do with Ragna's hitbox with Carnage Scissors, since he sort of crouches downward. Maybe his crouching causes Yukikaze to blow clear over his head? Unfortunately I don't have a video or even a replay of this since it was local play. Any ideas on what the hell happened?
ryokoalways Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Unfortunately unless you reproduce it we won't know what happened. Yukikaze hits all the way to the ground. You can go over it, not under it.
Senovit Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Well, I figured as much. I really wish I had a video, or could at least remember the exact situation. The first thing that came to mind was the backdash bug, but I really doubt that it can carry over for that long into a super that gets countered...
BladeOfJustice7 Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Some weird shit just happened to my roommate and me while we were in this matchup. I was in the left corner and used a random Carnage Scissors after falling onto the ground after an air tech, and he countered the first hit of it with Yukikaze. However, instead of hitting me, his Yukikaze blew straight past me and I continued to use Carnage Scissors, although it missed him completely since he was on the left side after whiffing the Yukikaze. He was not in mugen, and I don't believe I was in Blood Kain, although I might have been. I've been trying to replicate this in training mode, and I've found that I can't. My roommate and I think it might have something to do with Ragna's hitbox with Carnage Scissors, since he sort of crouches downward. Maybe his crouching causes Yukikaze to blow clear over his head? Unfortunately I don't have a video or even a replay of this since it was local play. Any ideas on what the hell happened? Yea theres a reason to that, you see DD's with invincibility frames have a certain amount OF time before the get the yukikaze hit. Meaning that haku users must stand still for the hit to take place the moment they move or try another attack the yukikaze hit vanishes. It's happened to me but since i spend a lot of time in training mode i knew about this affect and let hakumen stand still and sure enough they still got hit ANIME STYLE:yaaay: NOW: how can Blood Kain be dealt with, I was facing this ragna player and we were pretty much tied until he started using blood kain which i wasn't able to handle him in that mode. So how should a haku-user handle blood kain, if you block too much you get a guard break, if your offensive you get pulverized
MisoSowee Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Yea theres a reason to that, you see DD's with invincibility frames have a certain amount OF time before the get the yukikaze hit. Meaning that haku users must stand still for the hit to take place the moment they move or try another attack the yukikaze hit vanishes. It's happened to me but since i spend a lot of time in training mode i knew about this affect and let hakumen stand still and sure enough they still got hit ANIME STYLE:yaaay: NOW: how can Blood Kain be dealt with, I was facing this ragna player and we were pretty much tied until he started using blood kain which i wasn't able to handle him in that mode. So how should a haku-user handle blood kain, if you block too much you get a guard break, if your offensive you get pulverized well for blood kain they get predictable sometimes but good ones... i usually barrier guard and counter jump ins with 6a, and some of the slower moves ill use 2d. but it's pretty much an uphill ride.
Senovit Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Great explanation, tried it out in practice mode and replicated the effect. Thank you. Sorry though, I'm not a Ragna player so I can't tell you the strategy against Blood Kain... I was just screwing around in versus with my roommate.
Yggjrasil Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 oh.. well personally i don't face ragnas enough, but it looks like 6d-jd is counterable even on non-IB... though i'm not sure. whenever i fight ragna (whenever that may be ) ill just block his strings, counter predictable attacks, or bait anti airs....works fine enough for now It works, he wailed on my Ragna yesterday. damn you Misa!
MisoSowee Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 It works, he wailed on my Ragna yesterday. damn you Misa! Misa....
[Alpha]-0mega- Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 Just finished a fight vs ragna on ranked match. EDIT: Explanation of post. At least 20 ragna players I fought used the same desperation strategy to attempt to win when one was on low health. Combos / DD's rather than single moves. The DD being the easiest to spot, focusing on a 5D rather than ''when can I attack again'' might get you back to hitting him in the face just a few secs faster.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 -0mega-;485374']Just finished a fight vs ragna on ranked match. First round I kicked his ass, second one he kicked mine. Third round It was going back & forth until he unleashed hell upon me, Only 1 pixel of health left, I bursted, knocked him down, overconfident and desperate ragna went for distortion drive. 234234D and he went down for the count. I was jumping around going all after I won that one lol. Don't mean to sound like a douche but I do not believe this post should go here unless you have suggestions or questions in relation to this match up. Speaking of which it seems that Ragna's 6a beats hakumens 6a when they are directly in front of one another and do the attacks at the same time.
rtl42 Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 you are definitely not being a douche. this is a MATCH-UP DISCUSSION THREAD, which means discuss tactics for dealing with the Ragna match-up; NOT how nerve-wracking your last ranked match against so-and-so Ragna was.
Savageshell Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Is this match-up even? I have honestly just started playing Haku-men but it feels like Ragna can just mash buttons the whole time and give me hell...I do have plenty of things to work on but this match up is frustrating the crap out of me...whats the most basic approach to fighting ragna?
qwerty Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 it's not exactly even if you ask me, but it's close. ragna's strength in this matchup is his ground rushdown, since hakumen either has to block or counter (risky) to avoid getting mixed up. however, if you play defense for the first 1/3rd or so of the round and punish ragna's jump-ins/rush ins (6A works for both, but 5B is better at the latter), you can make him nervous while you build meter to pound his face in. then once you get at least 5 bars of meter, begin to rush down and take away his life bar.
ryokoalways Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Is this match-up even? I have honestly just started playing Haku-men but it feels like Ragna can just mash buttons the whole time and give me hell...I do have plenty of things to work on but this match up is frustrating the crap out of me...whats the most basic approach to fighting ragna? If he is just mashing out block strings, you should be able to kill him. Ragna can't jump cancel most of his stuff, so his other way out is the super risky revolver from the ground (way too slow, plenty of recovery to punish). Generally, the correct way to play ragna in this match up is to keep spacing in his favor, and then poke with his 5B or 5C, with occasional tk revolver and 2D. It's more difficult for hakumen to get in because he has more range and speed on his moves, but not too bad because you do have counters to his moves. Unless you are more specific, it's hard to tell you what you are doing wrong. This matchup may be slightly in ragna's favor. Maybe. I personally think it's slightly in hakumen's favor because ragna, while also having frame traps, are significantly more unsafe compared to Jin. Add that on top of low hp and hakumen having a way to deal with half of his safe stuff makes it not too bad to deal with.
JackG Posted October 23, 2009 Author Posted October 23, 2009 BladeofJustice: Ragna's is faster, so that is correct. If you're both on the ground, invulnerabilities don't come into play and you only factor speed. Savageshell: Personally not one of my favorite matchups, due to the fact that his 5B outright punishes any C move on whiff or block (ordinarily you can space it against chars to be safe, but against Ragna his 5B pushes him forward and is quite fast) and outstuffs other moves we got too, such as our 5b. My main problem with Ragna is his moves are about as big as hakumens, but in general are faster and more importantly can gatling. Ragna has lots of free ins against hakumen, and it's pretty hard to approach ragna. The best success I have with this matchup is just playing ultra defensive and 2D'ing unsafe approach (5B> 5C (IB'ed) > 214A can be 2D's before the 214A hits you)
Sophisticat Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 I hate this match-up. Feels 6-4 against a good Ragna who knows Haku, though I think it's really 5.5-4.5 in his favor. I've read this whole thread, but I'd like some extra input in dealing with guys who know Haku inside-out. More specifically they... (hypothetically... no one's play is perfect): - Can bait counters when doing block strings. - Are hard to get in because of Inferno and 6a. - Have good spacing, can punish my normals on reaction. - Seal my 6a with far j.C. - Never use unsafe stuff. Etc, etc. This match is a nightmare of having to guess right and basically offering myself as a sandbag for any chance to actually do damage. : \ Tips?
ryokoalways Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Again, a video would be a lot more helpful. As far as general match-up goes, while Ragna can frame trap, they are all either very slow or high risk. So it's a simple matter of just playing the numbers. Getting in on him isn't difficult, it just takes time. dp should not be a problem, and 6A only matters if you are in the air too much (doesn't matter if you are air dashing or not. Ragna can get under you quickly, which is a pretty bad position for hakumen). Stay on the ground. Not sure what you mean by far jC. 6A will crush jC at basically all effective range. And if it's any farther then just reposition because he will whiff. And if he isn't doing anything unsafe, then there is no way he should crack your defense. Ragna's pressure is terribad if he doesn't use any of his high risk moves (which is basically 90% of them). You are probably playing too one-dimensional/aggressive, and then when you get sealed you turn passive. You should be playing defensive aggression, and turning the heat on when you get a correct read, then just decide if you want to get a mixup set-up or set a trap (generally against dp).
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