DaiAndOh Posted January 18, 2016 Author Posted January 18, 2016 So c.S Bishop (as seen in the video) leaves Venom at +5 when done perfectly (18 frames of blockstun, 13 total on Bishop). So it's about a 2 frame gap using 2P, technically not safe against reversals (and pretty sad in Rev when you can Blitz Bishop by charging). When done with IB, 4 frames get shaved off there, making c.S>Bishop>2P mashable by most characters. Potentially risky...but the reward is clearly pretty high too.
DaiAndOh Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 So here's some Venom hitboxes! Projectiles are still a WIP on the hitbox viewer, and not all active frames are shown, but still a good look.http://imgur.com/a/hoYwc I might have underrated 5P and 2HS (some of my accidental 5P AAs make more sense now lol). c.S pales in comparison to the AC days sadly :(. j.S is interesting....(reverse the order of the images in your head) Edit: Well well well welll wellllllll look at what was found in the data: On a different note, I want to discuss something. If you watch those Isamu sets, he very rarely goes for okizeme on Sol and looks to make more setups instead and continues to zone. Is it a combination of blitz+Sol's strong wakeup options? He tends to go more for oki when Sol lacks the 25 meter. If any of our JP speaking friends would want to ask on twitter or help me do so (I don't know any...), would also be appreciated.
D-D-Domo Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 3 hours ago, DaiAndOh said: So here's some Venom hitboxes! Projectiles are still a WIP on the hitbox viewer, and not all active frames are shown, but still a good look. I might have underrated 5P and 2HS (some of my accidental 5P AAs make more sense now lol). c.S pales in comparison to the AC days sadly :(. j.S is interesting....(reverse the order of the images in your head) Edit: Well well well welll wellllllll look at what was found in the data: On a different note, I want to discuss something. If you watch those Isamu sets, he very rarely goes for okizeme on Sol and looks to make more setups instead and continues to zone. Is it a combination of blitz+Sol's strong wakeup options? He tends to go more for oki when Sol lacks the 25 meter. If any of our JP speaking friends would want to ask on twitter or help me do so (I don't know any...), would also be appreciated. Sweet, wanna post pictures of significance?
AznSpyderman Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Def, please add some pics! I cannot PC this game
DaiAndOh Posted January 26, 2016 Author Posted January 26, 2016 Whoops, I think I accidentally deleted the link. My mistake.imgur.com/a/hoYwc
TittyFOFO Posted January 26, 2016 Posted January 26, 2016 Awesome. Thanks Dai. On a related note, anyone know off hand if 5K will beat Sol/Pot's 2P as a round opener? That hitbox is pretty slim.
AznSpyderman Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 20 hours ago, DaiAndOh said: Whoops, I think I accidentally deleted the link. My mistake.imgur.com/a/hoYwc I dont understand the 6P stuff... He goes from no-upper body invincibility to no hitbox, to upper-body invincibility?
Elemenope Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 The 6P images aren't in correct order, likewise the 6H and probably some other specials or normals as well.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Thought you guys might like this, bishop run out applications in the corner, seems legit.
AznSpyderman Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 5 hours ago, Elemenope said: The 6P images aren't in correct order, likewise the 6H and probably some other specials or normals as well. Thank you! 2 hours ago, BladeOfJustice7 said: Thought you guys might like this, bishop run out applications in the corner, seems legit. Nice! I tweeted this, but not expecting everyone here to follow me... lol
DaiAndOh Posted February 12, 2016 Author Posted February 12, 2016 So fun note, look at the tension damage for fding Burst Dark Angel...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFL0GcuIUAI#t=32m16s ~75 tension....wow.
DaiAndOh Posted February 17, 2016 Author Posted February 17, 2016 Isamu's thoughts (as of Rev 1.03) of matchups. Large disadvantage: Zato, Millia Disadvantage: Johnny, Jack-O, Faust, Sol, Sin, Elphelt, I-No Even: Chipp (wtf), Jam, May Slight advantage: Bedman, Ram, Leo Advantage: Ky, Slayer, Axl, Potemkin Seems reasonable outside of the Chipp. I reached out for that one utilizing the almighty Google Translate See if I can get a response.
AznSpyderman Posted February 17, 2016 Posted February 17, 2016 Theoretically, I cannot see Chpp at all. I'd have put him at "Large disadvantage" in some cases, but mostly under "Disadvantage"
TittyFOFO Posted February 19, 2016 Posted February 19, 2016 I don't think we have any real business beating good Chipp players on even a semi-regular basis. Its our worst match-up hands down IMO.
DaiAndOh Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 Well he said he would get back to me after a bit of discussion on which language (couldn't explain in English, I told him Japanese was ok, he'd say he'd follow up, haven't heard since). Might bug him in a few days.
DaiAndOh Posted February 19, 2016 Author Posted February 19, 2016 Here's the writeup, translated by Keeponrockin (use his vid database!) Excuse me for the Japanese. For the Chipp-Venom match up, the first thing to know is that "for the most part, Venom's 2S and f.S win the ground game". Also that Chipp's teleport YRC moves him to where the opponent was right before the teleport. Therefore, you can poke with 2S/f.S while you're dashing and as long as your timing isn't bad, Chipp won't be able to start his offense. You should also be careful about alpha blade, but it seems like just poking with f.S beats it a lot of the time. Since you control the ground game, it's important to watch out for jumps and air dashes. Typically Chipp will jump from right in front of your 2S/f.S range, so when the opponent enters that range, read the opponent and simultaneously jump with Chipp, then go for an air throw. You can also go for an air-to-air with j.P if you act before your opponent. For summoning balls, try to mix up cancelling or not cancelling dash 2S/f.S into summon. If the Chipp wall clings from far away, you can also summon. Just having the ball there will act as pressure and they're also useful for running away so it's not necessary to immediately hit them. In the end, the goal is to abuse your advantageous ground game and harass the enemy into moving into easy to anti-air positioning. The main causes of losing will end up being when you're forced to block okizeme, you made the wrong read/were read or there were multiple times where you were unlucky with teleports leading into lethal situations. There aren't a lot of actions you need to take to win and you don't have to take a lot of big risks. For these reasons, I think Chipp vs Venom is an even match up. Round start: stick to 2S or blocking. Retreating or overextending gives Chipp a bigger attacking opportunity. (Dai's note, 2S loses to 5K, and when mistimed 2S/2D, so be careful)
TittyFOFO Posted February 20, 2016 Posted February 20, 2016 Pretty much the same approach I take to fighting Millia, especially if she's pin-less. I'll try to implement the dashing far S/2S into my game more to see if it helps. Could actually make the S telepirt more dangerous, but shrug.
Xenozip Posted February 21, 2016 Posted February 21, 2016 On 1/26/2016 at 0:02 PM, DaiAndOh said: Whoops, I think I accidentally deleted the link. My mistake.imgur.com/a/hoYwc Thank you for posting this, appreciated. I was curious about the flip-kick part of j.236H, but I didn't see it in that image set. Any way we could get a screenshot of HS Mad Struggle's flip?
Pomparomp Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 I've been playing a bit of +r and god dammit i really want 6k back. 6p is a strong antiair but the lack of reward off it compared to most of the rest of the cast is really frustrating
DaiAndOh Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 6K in +R is not a reliable anti-air at all. Now +R c.S hitboxes, both for anti-air and combos would be some stuff. But AC Vanilla 6P would be a GODSEND.
TittyFOFO Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 What other characters are really getting anything all that great off of their AAs? I think Sol is the only one that's gonna wreck you super hard without meter, and that's only on CH 6P and maybe CH 1 hit VV. Everything else is pretty dependant on positioning and resources. Also, you can get full combos off of CH 1 hit 2HS xx S Carcass. Good for shutting down some IAD pressure and cross-up attempts.
Flick Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 err, Sol's 6P, Sin's 6P, Slayer's 2S/6P, El's c.S, May's 6P/2H or even Ky's 2H on CH can be a round ending blow if you ask me
TittyFOFO Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Of that list, I'd say Sin's is the most dangerous by far because he gets big damage and hard knockdown from anywhere on the stage (I truthfully forgot about him). Ky 2HS is great because of that hitbox, but I'd never think I lost a round just because I got hit with it once. May's buttons are seldomly used for true AA purposes (6P is more of a counter poke, and I never see 2HS outside of anti-tech setups), and Slayer/El AA rewards are super dependant on proximity to the corner. Can they all change the outcome of a round? Sure, if you get caught by one while already in bad positioning. But hell, a Pot 6P can ruin your life if you decided to get CH by it too close to the corner. As with almost everything from AC and +R, I'm glad 6P loops are gone. You shouldn't be netting close to half life just for landing a conventional AA.
DaiAndOh Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 El c.S AA rewards are pretty strong regardless or corner. Millia 2HS AA is high reward (the dreaded knockdown). Nobiru with Zato can be big damage depending on the situation, knockdown if he has meter too. I-No can get some good damage + corner carry. Pretty sure Johnny has stuff too off of 6P if we're going there.
TittyFOFO Posted March 11, 2016 Posted March 11, 2016 Pretty much any Millia touch leads to knockdown lol. I wasn't really trying to imply that none of the cast gets anything off of an AA. My point was moreso that Venom isn't all that far behind anyone else when it comes to AA rewards. CH 6P, 5S(c), and 2HS can all lead to a meterless 170-220ish damage on Sol with knockdown, depending on positioning. That fact, combined with us having one of the best AAs in the game, makes me think that we're doing just fine.
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