[CF] Relius changes, loketest news, other stuff

[Myoro]

Coming straight from Lich's observations from the Loketest, to the Rel Skype group and finally to here:

214A and 214B appear to be unchanged.

236D (our new command grab) is a little bit on the slow side, it reportedly moves from where Ignis is.

214D when unsummoned is fast, estimated to be around 24F, Ignis acts before Relius can. Should work in combos.

41236B is faster too. Noticeably about 5~6 frames.

2C has less hitstun so delaying to the point where they float downward is impossible, and 41236B is smaller, making 2C>6C>41236B harder but still possible.

2C>TKj.236C still works, even at late combo.

6C>41236B works on normal ground hit.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Myoro

[Poultrygeist]

What about counterhit 2C?  Our old route no longer works?

[Myoro]

Taken straight from SKD's Loketest observations:

"Relius: Maybe RIP? New command throw seems pretty useless lol, pretty slow. j.A only hits like 3 times now, gad leis is faster but it seems minus on block. 214A soft kd on more heights now, which is good. 2C less untechable time, combo routes seem a bit more restrictive. ~214C followup to 236C/j236C seems like ass now lol, it sends them straight up and doesn’t wallbounce. Unsummoned 214B (is this the overhead) is fast, but summoned 214B is the same. 22A is slower, 3C 22A will cover everything except for backroll midscreen, and covers everything in the corner. Blue combo if you don’t tech though, which could be bad depending on combo options. Dunno, nothing really seems so stand out, looks like a lot of nerfs. His exceed is cool, he jojos poses while you get beat up and then he does this cool thing that i don't understand."

 

This indirectly corroborates a lot of what Lich says, and the description of Rel's Exceed is a welcome addition. I hope j.A hasn't really been nerfed too hard, but the change to it sounds bizarre. Has the hold time been shortened and standardized like Kokonoe's, or is it the same, but it only hits three times? If the latter is the truth then what of blockstrings? I'm guessing he meant 214D, unless 214B got overhead prop suddenly (which from the wording here I imagine is not the case.)

Is it only 22A that is slower or the whole set of three moves? Can 22A be comboed from in this proposed meaty situation?

 

Here's the txt URL: http://www.teamstickbug.com/2015/08/26/skds-closed-loketest-bbcf-info-and-impressions-writeup/

Edited August 26, 2015 by Myoro

[Poultrygeist]

Wasn't it said that you can act independently out of command throw?  If so, wouldn't you be able to create difficult situations, like  using it to bait your opponent to mash/jump and then punish them?  I just want to make sure I understand.

[Poultrygeist]

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201508/27086866.html

Both the first and the second vid have Relius matches in them.  In the first you can see the drastically different and much faster/less + Gad Leis, and that 2C 6C Gad Leis is still possible but is very weird.  Also is it just me or does 4D look a bit faster/better hitbox?  Well, anyway, draw your own conclusions from these vids.

[Myoro]

Everything looks blistering fast. Some observations I made:

CH j.B floats closer.

2C indeed has less hitstun, but it also has less push-back making it better for pressure. I think you can still get the net worth of the delay float from it, the whole thing just happens faster.

J.A looks to have the change SKD mentioned, but still seems very good/unaffected for the most part.

Lanto (214A) got even faster, looks to cost 10% IG and slides on CH for a long time (It's a really big slide O_o") Might be smaller though.

Haas (~214A) Doesn't slide. Ignis appears on ground level with Relius like she does when using Zain (~214C)

Zain looks hard to follow-up 236C~214C>236C didn't work by like 1 frame, but the combo was at 11 hits when that happened so that could be combo timer issues.

Mom gauge begins recovering slower, but when it does it's all back within the blink of an eye.

Gad Leis basically has 1.0 hitbox issues. But it worked then and should work now.

Lauger's float looks different. to me.

Relius looked very alive to me in the loke. '_'

 

It's worth mentioning that until I see a better palette, that green one is claimed by me in the name of new beginnings, set-play, and great justice.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Myoro

[skd]

Wasn't it said that you can act independently out of command throw?  If so, wouldn't you be able to create difficult situations, like  using it to bait your opponent to mash/jump and then punish them?  I just want to make sure I understand.

nope, its like liz 5d, except he has to be on the floor. the doll can be in the air, though.

[Poultrygeist]

nope, its like liz 5d, except he has to be on the floor. the doll can be in the air, though.

What happens if you use it in the air anyway, does it get treated as an aerial throw or does it hit people on the ground normally like the current (pre-CF) 236D does?

[Myoro]

What happens if you use it in the air anyway, does it get treated as an aerial throw or does it hit people on the ground normally like the current (pre-CF) 236D does?

I've wondered this myself. I think it could lead to some tricky oki if we did it one pixel above ground vs on the ground on the opponent's wake-up. Also according to Lich it travels a little less than Tus, I think if we set it up from a distance we can meaty it and 5B a frame after it for a UB. But if it's like Liz's it might keep him locked in animation until it's over.

 

I get the feeling it will be an oki tool, after all it replaced one.

[Myoro]

More changes I noted:

It looks like 236C has less base untech. 4D>2C>236C let them airtech at about the height 236C first hit. This could be bad.

Ignis looks like she comes back to Relius' side much quicker. If I know my stuff, which I hope I do, this is probably going to make space control MUCH stronger with Ignis.

[Myoro]

Another couple observations from myself:

Unsummoned 214A seems to slide on normal hit and have much less recovery! It also seems to have a cost of only 20% IG!!

Geara Lugia looks to have the same length of animation for Relius... Does this mean that while it picked up start-up it lost recovery? I wonder if it's easier to combo out of now. 22X had a ton of actives and could be made + before, I can hardly imagine how + it would be if it was blocked on the last frame and that was the actual change.

[Poultrygeist]

Between that and the change to 214D it sounds like they're trying to make raw unsummon specials more useful, or perhaps that they're trying to make unsummon and summon Relius specialize at different things.  What do you all think?

[Myoro]

I'm willing to bet that's correct. I think we should put them in combos as u.214A for unsummoned henceforth.

I wonder how the others have been changed and if similar or different things happen in OD...

[Poultrygeist]

Relius WAS up now on the third stream

http://shoryuken.com/2015/08/27/live-broadcasts-scheduled-for-upcoming-blazblue-central-fiction-location-tests/

Myoro PLS!

I think I see the new corner route now...and some midscreen command throw tech.

EDIT: Okay it seems like this Id Zein route still works in the corner based on the stream: Filler->236C 214C 2C j.236C 2C 6C 41236B 5B 2C/6B j.5B j.5C j.236C j.214B.  However due to 2C and Gad Leis changes it looks like it's a LOT more finnicky than it is now.  I saw Relius earlier skip the 2C j.236C and just go for j.5C j.236C instead.  

Also, please consider the ramifications of the vastly sped up crush trigger on our gameplay, and the way Active Flow works.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Poultrygeist

[Poultrygeist]

Watching the streams now.  It looks like all old routes with 2C 6C 41236B MIGHT still be applicable but you have to perform them faster.  Also throw->41236B worked as a valid combo, take that as you will.  Is it just me, or is unsummon a tad slower?  I really can't tell.

[Myoro]

D-did I say he wasn't gonna be in the stream? O_o"

Here's how I think this is gonna work out:

Basically 236C~214C will still be applicable in combos, but it has to be delayed. Since 2C 236C and j.236C took a base hitstun nerf this will have to be done to keep them low I think. it's pretty clever. it can already sorta be done in this version but delaying that rekka is useless now because it wallbounces them lower which just ruins stuff. Since it no longer wall-bounces it should be good this time around. Also 2C>j.C>j.236C~214B should still work after it as an alternative after ~214C so we might keep our 5K for 30% IG

2C>236C>5B should still work. If 2C is cooperative that is.

CT is going to be verrrry important for us, especially if the mid-screen version can combo with a little help from Ignis. It may become a staple of our mix-up. Do note that it still takes the full 40% off of their barrier when blocked. I still have to wrap my head around active flow, but I want to know if OD>2363214C>236236D>EA is stronger than the alternative of using 2363214C>hits>632146D. I feel like command grab is going to be a stronger oki tool than a mix-up tool, after all it replaces an important oki tool. It could serve as both though. =)

IDK about summon/desummon taking longer. Does anyone have these streams archieved? I missed most of the Rel match(es?) unfortunately.

[Myoro]

Incredibly enough this vid shows us being able to 5B+C>41236B. This is pretty huge for us I think.

If anyone sees Rel's EA in a vid link it here. I really wanna see it.

[Poultrygeist]

I'm expecting our throw routes to be much better now, but keep in mind throw isn't exactly the ideal starter either so I doubt we'll get a full combo off it.  However, maybe we can get a midscreen knockdown off throws easily with this.

[Myoro]

Command grab is weird. It's more active than you'd think, and when done in float situations Ignis goes diagonally downward until she touches ground. I wonder if we can even get her actives to come out when she's airborne. There's no damage speed or hitstun diffence between 236D and OD u.236D which is super strange. Bot put your opponent in a standing stagger state.

Here is the vid I extrapolated this info from.

 

Edited August 30, 2015 by Myoro

[Myoro]

Ah we can post again? Well writing this down for the good people of DL. We JJBA now.

[Myoro]

レリウスLINEも参加してないしロケテ情報(前回のロケテ含む)がほとんど分からんw

6B→旧作仕様
ハースザイン→弱体
ラント→スライド
6Cレイス→地上くらいで可
アクト→コマ投げと入れ替え
嫁回復タイミングの鈍化？

分かるのはせいぜいこのへん
ヴァイオスどうなってるのかな

Some apparently Relius related. albeit untranslated loke info

[Poultrygeist]

Id Haas/Zein got nerfed?

6C, Gad Leis combo works grounded now?

Ignis recovery is slower on moves?

That's all I got out of it and I'm not sure if that is correct either.

[Myoro]

I've gotten several amateur translations that say similar things, with the adage that old 6B is back and Lanto ground slides on any hit. I wouldn't put too much stock in all of it, but I'm willing to assume that's what we're working with so far.

 

There's also this which is sorta relevant:

Spoiler

 

[Myoro]

6B has launch on ground hit again

236C~214C>66C>41236B works midscreen

3C floats closer

22C looks quicker to come out and to recover but may have less actives

6C and 6D's floats look different on air hit

Ignis stalk has a shortened duration. It looks 100x better at doing what it was intended to do.

[Myoro]

There's also a lot of info here if someone can translate:

 

https://twitter.com/tori_relius_

Any help with that would be amazing.