[CT] Arakune vs. Nu

[thegame4ever]

So I played a proper v-13 again today. It was 4 me, him 13. I'm really considering switching Arakune. Out of interest last match I won by doing teleport air 214 grab, so something to use, but otherwise poor Ara. This is just really doing my head in, the most played will be v-13 in tourneys etc. while poor Aras eat crap in that matchup. Gonna have to see what Souji or hime do vs. a v13.

[Senkei]

They get raped.

[Shinsua]

Unfortunate truth is unfortunate

[Manas Ayus]

there are a lot of Nu's who are currently doing their basic combo of D,D>4D,D>214D(?) I like to hang against the back of the wall and block all the attacks until the 214D comes out, it leaves her quite open so that's a good time to teleport behind her and get out a quick jD bug, as when you teleport you are the correct distance away by default.

[thegame4ever]

there are a lot of Nu's who are currently doing their basic combo of D,D>4D,D>214D(?)

I like to hang against the back of the wall and block all the attacks until the 214D comes out, it leaves her quite open so that's a good time to teleport behind her and get out a quick jD bug, as when you teleport you are the correct distance away by default.

Good move but they have to had not predict the low, since she can still block it.

Edit: Any good moves to punish Nu's 4B? All I have is 2A>2C>Rapid or IB 2nd hit 5D if close enough.

[x1jinchu1x]

Yes I will admit this is a pretty difficult matchup, but it definitely isn't impossible.

I'm lv. 47 (legit) on the Xbox Blazblue online and I myself run into very formidable V-13s (particularly lv. 50 and above) that are definitely tourney quality (not tryin to brag).

So far, I've read some of the comments and I do agree with plenty of them. One in particular which is very true indeed is diving attacking then teleporting. This really is a bad strat against a good V-13, plenty bad cuz of the stupid auto-aim when they spam their 5C. I'd know this first hand cuz my secondary is V-13 hehe and I myself take advantage of the auto-aim, as its an in-game mechanic and not using it would be foolish.

Now if you really wanna get up close to V-13s and wanna take a risk you're better off 214A'ing in the air when you see the opportunity cuz its much less telegraphed than the dive into teleport. The safest way to approach, however, is definitely through j. 6A/B/or C'ing (of course only when the coast is clear and you've blocked a couple D's).

Another thing to keep in mind is to drop a curse cloud once you get the chance, particularly the homing and or the one that follows you. Why? Because it LIMITS the V-13's movements. The V-13 will find him/herself having to jump over the cloud and/or unable to teleport after hitting with a D, cuz he or she will run into the cloud.

Once cursed you can play safe cuz ur bugs have formidable range. Once you land a hit with a bug you can jump right in without having to worry too much about being punished, cuz you got plenty of bugs to cover your escape, if need be.

Also, I feel the safety zone against a V-13 is on the complete other side of the screen. Moreover, where parts of ur char. are hidden or cut off. Why? cuz as a V-13 player myself I know that theres only a few moves that V-13 has that can land from that distance, which is the 214D and the 4D, so 80% of the time just block high at that distance and obviously block low when you see the rolling saw on the ground. Furthermore, from this distance you can pretty much drop a smoke cloud without too much caution. And if the V-13 realizes she/he can't get you and comes close, well then he's doing ur job for you and closing in the gap for you.

Also, just as a confidence booster, remember that Arakune is a top tier as well for a reason. Specifically, he is a dmg. FIEND. To top it off, V-13 isn't a complete god character cuz she takes the second to most dmg. in the game (if I'm correct, i think). Now pack that into an equation with Arakune, who deals one of the most dmg. and you can see why it really isn't impossible to win. Two loops on one V-13 = a round won (Even counting the combo break which will happen). So remember to just be patient and then shit on the V-13 hard when the chance arises.

Oh and I apologize for the wall-o-text, but I hope this helps. Also, keep the lil tips n strats for v-13s coming, cuz I could always use more in my arsenal.

[thegame4ever]

Do not apologize for the wall of text, more text = more win. What useful advice, thank you a lot, keep dropping in and adding more.

[CopperDabbit]

So far, I've read some of the comments and I do agree with plenty of them. One in particular which is very true indeed is diving attacking then teleporting. This really is a bad strat against a good V-13, plenty bad cuz of the stupid auto-aim when they spam their 5C. I'd know this first hand cuz my secondary is V-13 hehe and I myself take advantage of the auto-aim, as its an in-game mechanic and not using it would be foolish.

Now if you really wanna get up close to V-13s and wanna take a risk you're better off 214A'ing in the air when you see the opportunity cuz its much less telegraphed than the dive into teleport. The safest way to approach, however, is definitely through j. 6A/B/or C'ing (of course only when the coast is clear and you've blocked a couple D's).

Another thing to keep in mind is to drop a curse cloud once you get the chance, particularly the homing and or the one that follows you. Why? Because it LIMITS the V-13's movements. The V-13 will find him/herself having to jump over the cloud and/or unable to teleport after hitting with a D, cuz he or she will run into the cloud.

Once cursed you can play safe cuz ur bugs have formidable range. Once you land a hit with a bug you can jump right in without having to worry too much about being punished, cuz you got plenty of bugs to cover your escape, if need be.

Also, I feel the safety zone against a V-13 is on the complete other side of the screen. Moreover, where parts of ur char. are hidden or cut off. Why? cuz as a V-13 player myself I know that theres only a few moves that V-13 has that can land from that distance, which is the 214D and the 4D, so 80% of the time just block high at that distance and obviously block low when you see the rolling saw on the ground. Furthermore, from this distance you can pretty much drop a smoke cloud without too much caution. And if the V-13 realizes she/he can't get you and comes close, well then he's doing ur job for you and closing in the gap for you.

To top it off, V-13 isn't a complete god character cuz she takes the second to most dmg. in the game (if I'm correct, i think).

So just a couple of things I wanted to point out:

1) One in particular which is very true indeed is diving attacking then teleporting Not only does V-13's 5C beat this out, but so does her 2C. Not only that she can hit you out of the recovery on the j.2A/B/C (unless dive canceled but that's another story) and even if she misses that, her 2C beats out the A and B teleports clean. The C teleport will cause her to wiff her 2C. But she recovers fast enough she can just do another one and still punish you.

2) Another thing to keep in mind is to drop a curse cloud once you get the chance, particularly the homing and or the one that follows you. This is true and has been covered on the initial posted as to when it's actually safe to do so.

3) Once cursed you can play safe cuz ur bugs have formidable range This is true, you're bugs are awesome. The problem is, V-13's range is still really good too. And she just needs 1 random hit make you lose your mark. As her swords don't go away even if she trades a hit, trying to out-zone v-13 is just suicide. It's much better to try and get in on her while marked, as her best options are significantly limited close in. Now, I'm not saying that she has NO options while you're in, but they are less.

4) theres only a few moves that V-13 has that can land from that distance [full screen], which is the 214D and the 4D, so 80% of the time just block high at that distance and obviously block low when you see the rolling saw on the ground

You forgot about 214DC, which you can't see coming as it comes from behind you. Therefore, it's ALWAYS better to block low against V-13, unless you the 4D coming. It has something like 20 frames of startup so it's very easy to block on reaction if you're paying attention. Also, the V-13's I play against, if I'm sitting on the other side of the screen, will dash in a little bit and do 5D or 6D xx act pulsar, random followups, etc.

5) Furthermore, from this distance you can pretty much drop a smoke cloud without too much caution That's just flat-out wrong sir. A V-13 can, on reaction, punish a cloud from full screen. Dash in 5D as you land, or from full screen her super will punish the cloud clean.

[Evertras]

Random note, 214D~C doesn't hit if you're a full screen's length away.

[x1jinchu1x]

Random note, 214D~C doesn't hit if you're a full screen's length away.

Yep I concur, the 214 DC starts up near mid screen though more towards the other side.

[x1jinchu1x]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOEjxYcws2E

this vid is a prime example of how to properly, intelligently, and safely approach V-13s

As can be seen he throws smoke clouds when at the furthest/safest range and approaches plenty with the air dash into Barrier Guard cancel. Yea i know he still loses but the Arakune comes very close and could've definitely won had it not been for the timer.

I understand the effectiveness of this strat. but don't use it so much myself.

The way I play Arakune is offensively on pretty much most char. some I use a spot aggressive strat. Either way though, i prefer offense to defense when using Arakune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4o8NoET-hs

this vid, although depicts an arakune vs. a litchi, is how I like to approach V-13s. Double 6As, j. 2A into 5B, smoke clouds when possible, 2A into 2C, etc..

So in my opinion these are the 2 effective ways to handle V-13s. I still believe that even with these strats a v-13 matchup is still prolly 7-3 in V-13s favor, but at least with these you know what you're supposed to do.

Again, as posted earlier by me, I use V-13 as my secondary and can tell you that her inside game is really where she lacks (which is obvious). It is because of this that I like to play offensive whenever I can do so without taking dmg. It's either play safe and make a V-13 make a mistake or play fairly aggressive and don't give a V-13 too much room to think and dominate with her range.

I feel one of the biggest reasons why V-13 is such a bad match up is cuz Arakune is very confined to the sky.

In the V-13 matchup forums for Arakune, moreover, a post labels Arakune pretty much as a sitting duck/air balloon, and I agree wholeheartedly. The reason for this is cuz Arakune can't run and has to teleport/trick opponents to get into them. Therefore, although the majority of Arakune's mobility lies in the sky, throwing in a ground dash or 3C when there's an opening isn't a bad idea to provide mix up.

So yeah I hope this helps in some way. Btw if you can find more vids of pro/good arakunes vs. pro/good V-13s don't be scurrred to post it (even if the arakune gets beat down or loses)

[x1jinchu1x]

And here copper is your infamous match with ur bro hehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GpK4sDY0RM

I decided to go over this vid cuz it is a prime example of two strong arakune n V-13 players. You played very well and it really just looked like you were beaten simply by the matchup and not much by difference in skill (not to say ur bro isn't skilled).

Although you're prolly a much better arakune than me and I prolly wouldn't of stood much of a chance against goryus, I can still point out some flaws.

One strat. I sometimes pull on V-13s is trade hits, so to speak. The reason why is simply cuz arakune, for the most part, wins in this exchange cuz u deal more and take less.

Throughout the match copper was trying from time and time again to land the short jump D. Though it proved very effective in the first few seconds of the first match, it was something Goryus capitalized on several times afterwards.

An example would be at 0:48 and a couple other times afterwards.

Instead of using the j. D, a retreating jump into a j. 6C would've been really helpful. Furthermore, the retreating jump into a j. 6C is something I'd recommend to throw out against pretty much all V-13s cuz it provides strong mixup. In your case, copper, it woulda definitely helped you out dmg wise (cuz it can obviously be followed up with 236C) and spacing wise.

Another I'd say woulda been to throw out more curse clouds when you had the range to do so.

Anyways I'm very aware that thinking of strats mid game and thinking of strats post game are two VERY different things, but nonetheless, this just be'z my two cents.

Btw a big reason I b posting in depth shit like this is cuz I know exactly how hard of a matchup with good V-13s are and I myself have difficult times with V-13s. Therefore, I really wanna shorten the gap

in match difficulty with these two char. as much as possible. Although I b providing all these strats for V-13s I'm not saying I'm the V-13 destroyer hehe, I'm just doin my research and finding all possible tactics that can help myself and others in whatever way.

[CopperDabbit]

That's a good analysis jinchu, but I'd like to clarify a few things: The first is that both Goryus and I know each other so well, because we've played each other a billion times, that we know a lot of the mind games we use, mixups and what not. He also knows what to look for when I'm at various parts of the screen. In casuals, if I'm at full screen and throw out a cloud, generally speaking 1 of 2 things happen: 1) He dashes in and I land on her 5D. Depending on how quickly he reacts this either means I get hit on recovery of landing, or block into his mixup. Or 2) If he has 50% meter he supers from full screen into massive damage. There are good reasons I try to get in, rather than stay away from him. Also, a retreating j.6C is just a bad idea against v-13. Due to the forced recovery on landing, it's entirely probably you'll get hit by a 5D, except in a few situations where you land at max range. Also, I disagree that running away from v-13, ever, is a good idea. Even if you manage to get away, you're not in a better position for having done so. She dominates Arakune from mid to long range, but he has a fighting chance close in. Personally, I'd rather take the chance to get in, than lose any opportunity of getting in. And finally, the instant air jumping drive is strong against v-13. This goes back to Goryus and I knowing each other so well. If he had landed at any of the examples you pointed out, momentum would have swung my way. However, he predicted that I was going to do that, and punished with j.2D. Had I NOT done the j.D, then I would have blocked her j.2D, and would have had a better chance to get in. So, yes. I did screw that up. But it's all part of the mind games.... Over all, jinchu, you have some very good points and some good advice. But I stand by how I played, and would do it again with pride I'll get that damn Sadistic Robot next time.

[SOVIET AFRO]

In my experience with this match up, if you can find a good way in on Nu, shes fairly glassy so doing the 5c>5c.236c to curse loop once does do about a third or so life bar to nu. but anything that misses is usually met with that ever-so-wonderful-15-hit-kill-death-cickle-loop-again-and-again.... In my experience, retreating is bad, teleports are awesome, but this matchup is generally just about that

[Helbendt]

I've learned many things about this matchup in my many losses (and one win), and one of them is that j.6whatever->j.2A, at the right height and from the right distance, goes right through a tiny hole in v-13's dominating screen coverage. Of course, if they're paying attention they can punish, but v can punish anything. Also, if they use 5C spam to repel you, the max distance you end up at happens to be the hitting distance of Arakune's 3C. Hey, it had to be useful somewhere.

[Shinsua]

Also, if they use 5C spam to repel you, the max distance you end up at happens to be the hitting distance of Arakune's 3C. Hey, it had to be useful somewhere.

[Helbendt]

...Yes, we all know I'm a terrible player. That just happens to be something that's useful to know against other terrible players who main Nu.

[Shinsua]

Oh no Im not saying your terrible (but thats not rule anything out here ;P ) Im just saying thats rather funny Just. . .happened to use Psyduck for funny. . .I guess. . . *Cough*

[Helbendt]

Oh. I assumed the:psyduck: was a "You're a doofus" visual, like the Awesome face on a certain board which shall not be named. (And with a win rate consistently under 50%, let's certainly not rule out me being terrible at fighting games.)

But seriously... when I think about it, every time I took home one round of a three-round match against Nu, it involved me tripping her up with 3C and cursing off of an instant j.D when the player guessed wrong on wakeup directions. I should probably set a training dummy to random recovery and practice choosing my anti-wakeup options on reflex, so as to not instantly lose my close-in position by taking a stupid hit into Nu's C arsenal.

[PhantomX]

Is there any reason you (copperdabbit) never attempt to bait some D swords and approach at the same time by using the 214 A (in vids posted)? I've had pretty good success with it.

[CopperDabbit]

Yes, because every time I try a teleport I get hit by v-13's 2C. Beats all of arakune's teleports on startup and recovery, including if she wiffs one and does another.

[PhantomX]

Is that true even if she's in the middle of a D move when you teleport? She can get the C out before you can do any sort of poke?

[CopperDabbit]

Is that true even if she's in the middle of a D move when you teleport? She can get the C out before you can do any sort of poke?

In a perfect world, yes, that does work. The problem is that if arakune just does his 214A/B moves from anywhere on the screen, she can punish them on reaction with any of the following: her 6D, 2C, or 3C (depending on distance). If your timing was 100% perfect and you knew the exact moment v-13 was going to do her 6D/6D/2D/whatever, then it would work.

I moved this particular discussion to this thread as it's on topic.

[PhantomX]

Sorry about that :P Just wanted to make sure it was legit. I usually use it as an additional mixup, particularly if I notice that the Nu players are attempting to punish me as I jump. I didn't mean to ONLY do that, but to throw them in as well, once the Nu player has been conditioned into believing they have your patterns read. If it has to be perfect timing than I may just have gotten lucky XD

[Senkei]

I just wanted to mention that I've found a great way to get out of Nu's pressure without bursting(since it gives her the advantage) and can take away sword pressure from the ground. Arakune's Dead Angle has a fast enough recovery to make a sword whiff giving you the time to escape and attack Nu. Yes it does cost 50% heat but it's heat that Arakune doesn't really use or need that much. It helps a good amount for me in the match-up and i suggest everyone tinkers around with it and find a way to use it for your advantage.