TaoFTW Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 REVENGE OF THE TAO! Thread is reserved for strats against Bang.
R∀zor Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 This thread should definatly be called Taokaka vs. Scruffy Man. Definatly.
Scalpel Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 I've always had problems with Bang. Would like some pointers in beating him before he can pull out a FRKZ out his arse.
KowtowRobinson Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Your stupid fucking crouchwalk and 2a mash beats every single move Bang has that doesn't cost nails, INCLUDING j.C and j.D. This match should be fucking free for you, you don't even have to be good at fighting games. Prove me wrong, please.
XDest Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Your stupid fucking crouchwalk and 2a mash beats every single move Bang has that doesn't cost nails, INCLUDING j.C and j.D. This match should be fucking free for you, you don't even have to be good at fighting games. Prove me wrong, please. He's right, 2A and 3 screw over this matchup hardcore haha. Wish we had that easy of an answer vs Arakune.
TaoFTW Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 Your stupid fucking crouchwalk and 2a mash beats every single move Bang has that doesn't cost nails, INCLUDING j.C and j.D. This match should be fucking free for you, you don't even have to be good at fighting games. Prove me wrong, please. Of course it beats out all your normals. It's one of Tao's fastest moves in the game. Why do you think proration exist? It's so that normals that are easier to land do less damage. I can't imagine how many 2a's a Tao player has to land on you before you can think of a counter-strat. Even a scrub would have common sense to start blocking them. But since you seem to be in a position for constructive criticism, I'll be happy to give you some advice. If you're being locked down by Tao's 2a pressure strings and gimmicks, then it's your own fault for getting in there the first place. Have you even thought about Instant Blocking - and punish accordingly - or using a dead angle? Bang excels with his mixup/crossup game. Once you catch Tao - and get a knockdown - you are free to do 50/50 mixups (for 3k damage output) and score another knockdown. If you do that three times, then you win. So ask yourself: Tao 2a vs. Bang mixup ...what's the problem again?
KowtowRobinson Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 ...what's the problem again? This. He's right, 2A and 3 screw over this matchup hardcore haha. When the answer to every move Bang has is to just 2a, and Bang's answer is to sit there and instant block a 6f jab, then add on his lackluster air game against Tao flying all over the place, things get a little hairy. So catching her means that she can just 2a and combo on hit (or CH since it beats everything he does) or on block run away again. But so far the only advice I've gotten is "drive nails are really good, hope you don't run out!" and "dude just instant block EVERYTHING!"
TaoFTW Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 Exactly. Drive Nails forces Tao's mobility to certain places - as well as increase pressure if used in the corner (longer hitstun = opportunity for mixup) - and Instant Blocking is ridiculously good. It's so good, that you can exploit your opponent's offense against them! So if Tao's offense amounts to mashing 2a for combo hits, then exploit that against them. IB and jab - you'll see Dora doing this over and over against Fio...and winning. To be blatantly honest, what you're complaining about is Tao's lifeline. She has nothing else, but close range pressure mixups. Once you get her on the lockdown, then she can't do anything without meter. If you can't pass this, then beating Tao will always be hurdle. Back when I played Goryus, while he was still using Bang, he would always find an opportune time to punish me in the air or beat me on the ground. Once he knocked me down, he'd always score his mixups and crossups. The matches usually ended with his win.
Ronove Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Today I played a really good bang who kept crossing me up and zoning my dash attempts with his nails. Any suggestion? Sometimes I try to backdash and attempt a Ch 5c->6C, but I'd like to hear someone's else opinion and see what kind of options we have in this matchup, specially when dealing with Bang's offensive game.
XDest Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 You can triple drive jump his drive nails I think. With D~C D~C 8D or jump 8D 8D. Remember he doesn't have many to work with. He needs them to force anything on you. Without nails, 2A beats out pretty much anything of his that isn't low.
WUT Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 2a beats out everything. Doesn't matter if it's low or not. The only way bang is going to outpoke you is if he was already swinging prior to you doing so. As a bang player I hate this fight. Tao's movement is huge and it necessitates one of two things for bang to gain momentum: 1.) bang punishes Tao for being offensive 2.) bang manages to force Tao to guard a d nail. Option 1 is difficult if Tao resorts to spacing with c moves rather than trying to get in or mix up with drives. This is actually where most of my damage comes from, as landing a j.d with 50% heat means 5k damage. Option 2 is quite limited. Bang can use a full set of d nails only 4 times a match, and he'll generally need to use another d nail just to score a successful mixup. He's blown half his nails for You to eat at most 4k damage, but usually it's more like 3k.
TaoFTW Posted August 26, 2009 Author Posted August 26, 2009 Today I played a really good bang who kept crossing me up and zoning my dash attempts with his nails. Any suggestion? Sometimes I try to backdash and attempt a Ch 5c->6C, but I'd like to hear someone's else opinion and see what kind of options we have in this matchup, specially when dealing with Bang's offensive game. Bang v. Tao matchup is all about who can get the first crossup/mixup faster than the other opponent. They have similar play styles and have no good defensive options. As said in the earlier posts, 2a beats out most - if not all - of Bangs normal. At worst case scenario, you'll face against a Dora-like bang who will IB your 2a and force you to eat a 3k punish. When you're locking down Bang with pressure, be sure to mix up heavily with 2a strings (throw, crossup, mixup, whatever to keep your opponent guessing). When you're locked down in Bang crossup strings, the best thing you can do is block and punish all the risky moves. If you have meter - and Bang does the airdashing footsies crossup - then IB and beserker barrage for punish. It's the easiest, and one of the only guaranteed ways, to punish. Otherwise, you got to stay blocking until you have an opportune chance to escape. Dead angle or burst, if necessary, to get out of pressure.
KowtowRobinson Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 They have similar play styles and have no good defensive options. As said in the earlier posts, 2a beats out most - if not all - of Bangs normal. Wouldn't you say that makes it a good defensive option? By the way, if you mash 2a you'll go under Bang's super. He'll just dash up against you while you paw at his foot, and eventually you'll hit him on recovery. I'm NOT kidding.
Glide Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Wouldn't you say that makes it a good defensive option? By the way, if you mash 2a you'll go under Bang's super. He'll just dash up against you while you paw at his foot, and eventually you'll hit him on recovery. I'm NOT kidding. U MAD?
Ronove Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 That's something I didn't know. Usually I just try to make it whiff since if I block it there's some incoming mixup (which I want to avoid). However although I am no Bang player I don't think they should ever throw their super without chaining it to something. It's kinda like versus Ragna, whenever they do Carnage Scissors from across the screen I just 22C and they eat some counterhit damage. :X
TaoFTW Posted September 11, 2009 Author Posted September 11, 2009 Wouldn't you say that makes it a good defensive option? By the way, if you mash 2a you'll go under Bang's super. He'll just dash up against you while you paw at his foot, and eventually you'll hit him on recovery. I'm NOT kidding. Okay, now you're just being unreasonable. Tao has no defensive options cause she's reckless and brainless cat. That isn't, necessarily, all too far from the truth, but she has NONE! Zippo! Zero! Her only alternatives are her distortion specials and dead angle, but that requires 50% meter. She has no specials or moves that stops you from closing in. When you lock down Tao in a pressure string, there's nothing she can do to get out - with the exception of IB or if you mess up. Longer blockstun = more opportunity to mix up = more chances to land 3k combos and gain oki for another crossup/mixup! @_@ And if you're splurging 50% on meter to get random damage, then - I'm sorry - but you're just asking to take a beating. So OF COURSE 2a will beat most of Bang's normals! It's a 6 frame move with 3 frames of active window. Tao excels at close range pressure and subpar zoning, but that's all she has. So, in a way, you could say that her offense is her best defense. But Bang works the same way except he excels with crossup and mixup games. Does that mean that his crazy good crossup game is his best defense? If you're getting fed up with 2a, then you better level up your game instead of complaining.
Ronove Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 I don't get why people complain about her 2a when it prorates like hell. I do use it sometimes to anticipate an opponent's blockstring but anything that I chan after that won't ever deal enough damage anyway. In most matches it's like I'm hitting for a while, I mess something up and there goes my advantage. x_x And I agree, a Bang who knows how to cross up and apply pressure with nails is quite a pain in the butt since we're always forced to block and risk guard crashing unless we IB our way out of it. I haven't faced a lot of Bangs who know how to do that though (but maybe because I'm still level 42). Most of the average Bangs still use the autoguard move which get regularly stuffed by 2a. But when I faced Bang players who did know how to crossup, use nails effectively and even do some nice resets I really started sweating hard. :X
KowtowRobinson Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 When you lock down Tao in a pressure string, there's nothing she can do to get out - with the exception of IB or if you mess up. Longer blockstun = more opportunity to mix up = more chances to land 3k combos and gain oki for another crossup/mixup! @_@ And if you're splurging 50% on meter to get random damage, then - I'm sorry - but you're just asking to take a beating. 1) he isn't landing 3k from his pressure strings, those damage numbers come off drive combos. Unless he has super but blah blah blah 2) you don't understand much about Bang's pressure strings I take it. He can only jump cancel 2b, and all options outside of drive nails you can simply jump back/barrier out of. Also if he doesn't hit the drive nails with proper spacing, you can once again simply mash 2a to escape everything. Just because she doesn't have a reversal, doesn't mean she doesn't have a tool to DOMINATE this particular matchup. Her 2a fucks everything up. As far as the splurging random meter, it was a laggy game on top of all this, done out of frustration. It's also Bang's only reversal, I've seen Bang players much better than myself take a chance on this in tournament matches, and win. Also consider that against anyone else's 2a in the game, it would have worked.
TaoFTW Posted September 14, 2009 Author Posted September 14, 2009 You're right in saying that Tao's 2a dominate your options as well as what you said about the nail pressure strings. Thank you for that constructive input! Let's not forget that Tao isn't the only one with a crazy low poke. I'll use what Mad Tea Party said, "Bang can't do anything to anyone except Hakumen and Tager. If Bang ever wins, it's because the person using him knows the game better." I don't want to sound rude at this point, but either you level up your game or remain bitter that Bang sucks.
sergetrigger Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 I'm a Bang main, but sub Tao... So this match is frustrating for me as a Bang player but fun once you get her cornered. The 2a does beat many of bang's moves except his 2a but that's only if you let go of the pressure. For me, I usually know which combo tao is heading for so I'll either 6d or 5d to get out of the pressure and teleport behind you for a counter hit. Such as if you're going for cat spirit 1 (632aaa), I'll probably already be teleporting behind you.
unkyrona Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slA6GGfT0CM This is a vid of a rusty (but pretty solid) bang player vs myself (yay dustloop groups). He does some pretty nasty lockdown on me that was rough to get out of. Perhaps any bang players that are reading this thread could take something away with this.
KowtowRobinson Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 You're not handling his cross up kick that well, could be online I'm sure. But block that and hammer on 2a, you'll beat 100% of his options, rushdown averted. All he can do is jump away or try to IB, if he does either of these you can just take your range again and outprioritize him in the air with j.C some more. It makes no sense so I don't blame you for not trying it, but when he hit that reversal super you probably went "oh shit super I better stop hitting 2a and try to block!" But you should have just kept mashing 2a, it would have avoided the super. I've seen Tao have better luck with her pounce super when the other player is coming forward, or in the air, especially after they use their double jump. Doing it from full screen like that, meh. That Bang wasn't really doing anything special, and there were a lot of chances for you to interrupt or avoid pressure that you didn't take. Could have been online, but it's worth noting. Mash 2a more against Bang, try it and you'll see what I mean.
unkyrona Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 You're not handling his cross up kick that well, could be online I'm sure. But block that and hammer on 2a, you'll beat 100% of his options, rushdown averted. All he can do is jump away or try to IB, if he does either of these you can just take your range again and outprioritize him in the air with j.C some more. It makes no sense so I don't blame you for not trying it, but when he hit that reversal super you probably went "oh shit super I better stop hitting 2a and try to block!" But you should have just kept mashing 2a, it would have avoided the super. I've seen Tao have better luck with her pounce super when the other player is coming forward, or in the air, especially after they use their double jump. Doing it from full screen like that, meh. That Bang wasn't really doing anything special, and there were a lot of chances for you to interrupt or avoid pressure that you didn't take. Could have been online, but it's worth noting. Mash 2a more against Bang, try it and you'll see what I mean. Oh trust me, I saw a ton of my mistakes, plus it was a blue connection :/. During the super counter I was actually trying to mash 2a, but I think he hit me right AT the recovery frame so it connected. Mostly I wanted to test out the theory of the 2a cancelling his distortion, but I guess he lucked out. I'm still in that rut between "scrubbie" and "decent", so the feedback was appreciated.
Tao(す)kaka Posted September 15, 2009 Posted September 15, 2009 I don't want to sound rude at this point, but either you level up your game or remain bitter that Bang sucks. (す） <-- approves of this message
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