ArcSys OST Discussion

[Narroo]

There's difference between the CD being "fine" and someone asking for a comparison with the goddamn White Album - like Hollysmoke did. It's a completely fine sounding, competent record for a video game soundtrack. I happen to work in the hi-fi industry and have heard tons of records on nigh unmeasurable amounts of equipment and my entire commentary there was based on that experience. For your average music listener and video game fan, the quality on the Xrd OST is just fine and will be a great listen. When I called the CD quality fine, I meant as in "the music is in CD quality", not like in the game itself.

Out of curiosity, what is it that makes the White Album so good (and why don't we see more of it?)  This isn't the first time I've heard of the White Album.  I'm genuinely curious. 

[LockedAndClush]

Out of curiosity, what is it that makes the White Album so good (and why don't we see more of it?)  This isn't the first time I've heard of the White Album.  I'm genuinely curious. 

Well, I'll keep it short because it's basically an offtop, but here's the thing:

I'm no Beatles fan, quite opposite of that, really. But their self-titled/so called "White Album" is an engineering masterpiece. It captured sounds in ways unheard of before it, and rarely heard afterwards, bringing rich tonality, dynamics and masterful mixing, crafting a soundstage (as in how much space it feels like the music can occupy in a properly set up room with a good set of speakers etc.) that makes it feel like you could just reach out and touch the band playing. Xrd OST just doesn't have even a slightest bit of that, it's very flat and lacks breathing room, like it was made on a computer. If it sounds like crazy talk, it is, because being an audiophile is a severe mental condition.

So, I want to make an explicit note of that again - my "3/10" opinion on Xrd's soundtrack has nothing to do with how good the music itself is, or claiming it to be unbearable or whatever, far from that. In my daily listening, I enjoy it very, very much. I'm just rather disappointed with the production quality after hearing BBCP's magnificently done OST album. Even Overture sounded a lot, lot better than Xrd does. It's an opinion of someone who always searches for more in music production than even the musicians ever intended, but that doesn't mean I can't just enjoy some music from my earphones every once in a while.

[Hollysmoke]

Well, I'll keep it short because it's basically an offtop, but here's the thing:

I'm no Beatles fan, quite opposite of that, really. But their self-titled/so called "White Album" is an engineering masterpiece. It captured sounds in ways unheard of before it, and rarely heard afterwards, bringing rich tonality, dynamics and masterful mixing, crafting a soundstage (as in how much space it feels like the music can occupy in a properly set up room with a good set of speakers etc.) that makes it feel like you could just reach out and touch the band playing. Xrd OST just doesn't have even a slightest bit of that, it's very flat and lacks breathing room, like it was made on a computer. If it sounds like crazy talk, it is, because being an audiophile is a severe mental condition.

So, I want to make an explicit note of that again - my "3/10" opinion on Xrd's soundtrack has nothing to do with how good the music itself is, or claiming it to be unbearable or whatever, far from that. In my daily listening, I enjoy it very, very much. I'm just rather disappointed with the production quality after hearing BBCP's magnificently done OST album. Even Overture sounded a lot, lot better than Xrd does. It's an opinion of someone who always searches for more in music production than even the musicians ever intended, but that doesn't mean I can't just enjoy some music from my earphones every once in a while.

 

It's not only that, it's the process of vinyl cutting. Vinyl is the best method of recording music, even in this day and age. It's the best method of preserving a sound as intended because in the transfer to digital, you're still "converting" the audio. This is why vinyl is still sold at speciality stores or online; you get the audio "as-is" if it's well pressed. Some places, such as turntablelab.com, will sell a vinyl as well as a lossless audio rip of the vinyl so you have the means to listen to that level of quality as close as possible if you're just interested in collecting the vinyl, or don't have the means to transfer the audio yourself. The goal is to preserve the sound wave as much as possible in the transfer. To give you an idea, I made this quicky diagram as a comparison of how things usually sound: 

 

 

The White Album is one of the most famous pieces of audio engineering because it was not only preserved quite excellently, but the audio engineer who worked on the vinyls in the 1980s still kept the quality of the audio when it was transferred from mono to stereo, hence why that's the top line reference in terms of quality. That being said, I was curious as to what people think of the quality from a variety of opinions since people have different sound systems. It would cost me $66 + tax + shipping and handling just to buy the CD set so I wanted to know if it was worth it :S

[GunBlazer]

On a scale of 1 to Beatles White Album Remaster, how good is the fidelity/quality?

While not a concrete rating, my shitty cellphone and shitty headphones alllow me to hear those songs (and those songs alone) with all of their glory (drums included). It's just that good.

[RockHoward2013]

 

http://vgmdb.net/album/51057

 

Recently discovered, that's not the actual lyrics, they are in japanese, just as Don Daisuke wrote, no clue of Motomura Adaption, that's what I got for y'all:

 

[Narroo]

So, how good was the mastering of the Chronophantasma CD then?  A 4/10?

[swordsman09]

This is a late response but I figure I should say my piece.

 

From what I heard in the OP, I don't like BLUE Desire. It just sounds like UNiB + Faylan. I really hope it doesn't replace BLUE Sanction as the astral music. If it does, I hope I can at least change it back.

[LockedAndClush]

So, how good was the mastering of the Chronophantasma CD then?  A 4/10?

 

It's actually satisfying. I dislike throwing around numbers as ratings that are supposed to reflect anything, because they never really do. Chronophantasma sounds really "alive" compared to Xrd, and my lucky guess would be that it simply had a bigger budget and/or more time to be recorded. Where most guitars and bass on Xrd sound like high quality digital amp simulations (as in the kind of ones you get running on your computer) and CP sounds closer to real amplifiers (I'd like to think I'm experienced enough with a couple of years of playing a 120W high quality amp myself to tell, haha), which doesn't exactly mean that they were, because when you have good equipment (like an AxeFX or something like that) and proper mastering, you can fool even the most experienced ears (on CD, that is, but let's not go beyond that, considering it's all we have). 

CP was quite a breakthrough for BB music sound quality, because previous albums sounded really bad - thankfully Xrd does have better quality than those. The thing that bothers me the most is how Xrd sounds worse than Overture did. While GG2 OST had a simple, raw sound, it was more dynamic than Xrd and I cannot understand why. I'm being so hard on Xrd's sound quality strictly because I love the music, I think it's the second best OST Arc ever put out (in terms of songs themselves, although my number one here is also Chronophantasma). After CP I simply had high expectations. 

[Abominable K]

The one thing that confuses me is that it seems that after Overture, Ishiwatari decided to go back to using drum machines as opposed to getting a studio drummer.  This seems like a step back-- it's especially confusing when the tracks that Yuhki arranged for Chrono Phantasma had a live drummer, and then we're back to drum machines for the new songs.

[Chipp12]

So anyone interested in looking up the Japanes version of lyrics in Xrd songs and comparing them to the Motomura's Engrish translations?

You can find the scans for both here on vgmdb.

For example:

[Hollysmoke]

The one thing that confuses me is that it seems that after Overture, Ishiwatari decided to go back to using drum machines as opposed to getting a studio drummer.  This seems like a step back-- it's especially confusing when the tracks that Yuhki arranged for Chrono Phantasma had a live drummer, and then we're back to drum machines for the new songs.

 

It's cheaper, faster and easier. Steve Wilson did the same thing on his album "Up the Downstair" before Porcupine Tree as a band had its established members. In 2004, he went back to the album and had the band re-record the drums so it sounded a lot better. Since this OST is more of a "cashing in" sort of deal, this is what we get.

[Narroo]

It's actually satisfying. I dislike throwing around numbers as ratings that are supposed to reflect anything, because they never really do. Chronophantasma sounds really "alive" compared to Xrd, and my lucky guess would be that it simply had a bigger budget and/or more time to be recorded. Where most guitars and bass on Xrd sound like high quality digital amp simulations (as in the kind of ones you get running on your computer) and CP sounds closer to real amplifiers (I'd like to think I'm experienced enough with a couple of years of playing a 120W high quality amp myself to tell, haha), which doesn't exactly mean that they were, because when you have good equipment (like an AxeFX or something like that) and proper mastering, you can fool even the most experienced ears (on CD, that is, but let's not go beyond that, considering it's all we have). 

CP was quite a breakthrough for BB music sound quality, because previous albums sounded really bad - thankfully Xrd does have better quality than those. The thing that bothers me the most is how Xrd sounds worse than Overture did. While GG2 OST had a simple, raw sound, it was more dynamic than Xrd and I cannot understand why. I'm being so hard on Xrd's sound quality strictly because I love the music, I think it's the second best OST Arc ever put out (in terms of songs themselves, although my number one here is also Chronophantasma). After CP I simply had high expectations. 

Maybe I'll grab the CD then; honestly I've been listening to YouTube which isn't exactly good quality (even with those new "lossless" tracks someone posted.

[Hollysmoke]

If you're not screaming "LET IT OUUUUUUUT!!" at the top of your lungs whenever it starts, you don't deserve to own these CDs, audio quality be damned.

[swordsman09]

If you're not screaming "LET IT OUUUUUUUT!!" at the top of your lungs whenever it starts, you don't deserve to own these CDs, audio quality be damned.

Isn't it suppose to be "READY NOOOOOOOOW!!"?

[TheRealBobMan]

Could anyone weigh in on the mastering done for the "Guilty Gear Best Sound Collection" and "Guilty Gear Isuka" CDs so I have a frame of reference?  I actually have those CDs so I know I'm not listening to a shitty rip.

[Tsuki Garyuu]

Isn't it suppose to be "READY NOOOOOOOOW!!"?

It's "ready or not." lol

[Narroo]

So, I'll ask directly:  What's the difference in sound quality between the Chronopantasma CD, the music in game, and streaming off of youtube?

 

And, as a side question, what's the technical data on the CD music tracks, like bit rate and such?  Given the number of tracks on each CD, I'm wondering if they just crammed a bunch of MP3's onto the CD and called it a day.  I've seen that before.

[werewolfgold]

It's "ready or not." lol

 

NOPE. No, it's not. I don't care what they say. That's clearly not what he says. lol

 

 

This seems like a step back-- it's especially confusing when the tracks that Yuhki arranged for Chrono Phantasma had a live drummer, and then we're back to drum machines for the new songs.

 

Well, gotta keep it consistent with the other songs, I guess.

[Hollysmoke]

So, I'll ask directly:  What's the difference in sound quality between the Chronopantasma CD, the music in game, and streaming off of youtube?

 

And, as a side question, what's the technical data on the CD music tracks, like bit rate and such?  Given the number of tracks on each CD, I'm wondering if they just crammed a bunch of MP3's onto the CD and called it a day.  I've seen that before.

 

See post for the first two: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6335-arcsys-ost-discussion/?p=905109

Youtube will always be 128kbps AAC, which is MPEG 4 in a M4A container. It sounds like ass. If you want to stream music, check out grooveshark.com

 

If your CD has .cd or .cdda format when you pop it in your computer, it's fine.

[Hollysmoke]

Could anyone weigh in on the mastering done for the "Guilty Gear Best Sound Collection" and "Guilty Gear Isuka" CDs so I have a frame of reference?  I actually have those CDs so I know I'm not listening to a shitty rip.

 

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Daisuke+Ishiwatari&album=

 

The better the dynamic range, the less "flat" it sounds. The min and max is based on individual tracks; the "best" and "worst". The column  that just says "DR" is the average across the whole album. Very rarely will you see an album green across the board, so 8 is pretty good for the Isuka CD.

[Narroo]

See post for the first two: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6335-arcsys-ost-discussion/?p=905109

Youtube will always be 128kbps AAC, which is MPEG 4 in a M4A container. It sounds like ass. If you want to stream music, check out grooveshark.com

 

If your CD has .cd or .cdda format when you pop it in your computer, it's fine.

I was hoping for something more specific, not conceptual.  That's kinda like saying "using these florescent bulbs will save power!" without actually including the wattage.  But thank you.

 

Also, I thought Grooveshark just ripped Audio from Youtube.  I guess not?

[Hollysmoke]

I was hoping for something more specific, not conceptual.  That's kinda like saying "using these florescent bulbs will save power!" without actually including the wattage.  But thank you.

 

Also, I thought Grooveshark just ripped Audio from Youtube.  I guess not?

 

The laws of physics are pretty specific...

 

You knock on a drum, strum a guitar, etc. you make sound. It is a sound wave. After you capture the soundwave, you convert to various formats, you start losing how the original sound wave sounded to begin with. Converting the soundwave to vinyl is the best retention, followed by CD and then DVD. I posted a diagram and explanation of this, I don't know how much more specific you want me to be. Youtube doesn't host anything lossless. It will always convert any audio format to 128kbps AAC. No streaming service will offer lossless because it would wreck bandwidth usage.

 

Grooveshark will stream 320kbps, and uses whatever people upload. Anything higher gets converted down.

[Narroo]

That's not quite what I'm asking this time: I'm asking how bright the lightbulb is compared to the others, not how it works.  I was just trying to get something of a more detailed end-user thoughts about the quality, beyond "It's good."  Is the CP compressed sounding or lacking dynamic range?  Are the highs rolled off in the game compared to the CD? ETC.  I'd just like to know what to expect before importing a CD from Japan, and whether or not it's really worth it.  Understanding how digital sound works doesn't really help with that. 

[Hollysmoke]

That's not quite what I'm asking this time: I'm asking how bright the lightbulb is compared to the others, not how it works.  I was just trying to get something of a more detailed end-user thoughts about the quality, beyond "It's good."  Is the CP compressed sounding or lacking dynamic range?  Are the highs rolled off in the game compared to the CD? ETC.  I'd just like to know what to expect before importing a CD from Japan, and whether or not it's really worth it.  Understanding how digital sound works doesn't really help with that.

Do you have high end audio equipment? If not, it doesn't matter; it's good enough, buy it if you like the music. it's going to sound "good enough". The transfer isn't going to be from game to CD, it's going to be studio recording to CD. Rolled off highs refer to sound pressure, that's an equipment-related issue. Yes, it's compressing sound, it's being pressed onto a CD. The dynamic range is of a satisfactory level from what I gather. If it's too expensive to import, or you want to see how it sounds, ask someone who did buy it to rip a song or two in FLAC so you can sample it on your equipment yourself.

[Narroo]

Entry level; FiiO E7 + JVC HA-RX700's.  Better than average but a step below audiophile level. 

 

Anyways, thank you, you've been helpful!