[CSE] New to BB and requesting help for combos

[Mr.Ownage]

Hello everyone!

I've recently picked up CSE after noticing a LOT of similiarties (Rapid Cancel = Roman, Barrier block = Faultless Defense) with Guilty Gear and decided to give it a go. I main Ragna and Platinum atm, but I don't know what is going on and how the combos work here. I will write down two combos here as examples.

Ragna : j.C , 5A,5B,5C, Hell's Fang, RC, dash, (optional 2C), 6A, (and from here blue heat), j.B>j.C dj.B>dj.C GH or ID-SP-AK.

Platinum : 6A > 5C > 6A > 236B, this is a combo I did to check if it works, and yes it does without blue heat.

Now what I am asking is why does the Plat combo work and why doesn't Ragna's work? I've read about repeat proration and I tried to avoid it as much as possible yet I still get a blue heat after the 6A. Any advice?

[Airk]

If you're looking to make your own combos, you'll probably want to get an understanding for how combos work.  Here's the page for CSE (which I should point out is no longer the current version of the game) - but basically, hitstun decays over time with hits in the combo, so the longer the combo has gone on, the less hitstun the opponent will have and the harder it will be to connect more moves.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I highly recommend, if you have the means of doing so, of getting Chronophantasma Extend. Its the most up to date version of the game and you'll find its very different in structure to Continuum Shift. Also, like Arik said, its best to read up on how combos work on the wiki before proceeding coming up with your own. 

[Mr.Ownage]

Hope i can post now...

[Mr.Ownage]

Oh yes! Now I can! Alright, for the actual meat of this reply... I've copied what I wanted to write to you guys, so here it is!

Airk:

As far as I try to read the wiki for info and the combo system in general, the notations (not 4A or 5C, I understand them but P1 and P2, later on) are hard to understand, mainly this proration thing. What is P1 and P2? And I've seen combo videos about Ragna, and they do like 2-3 5D-s in the corner with him in the same combo! I even purposely avoid doing the same moves to avoid SMP but it doesn't seem to work.

Yakuzu94:

As for getting BBCPE, it would work if it were on PC :)

Also sorry for long time for a reply, the forum was down or whatever and I couldn't do so.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Well, BBCPE is slated for PC in the next couple of months, but if CSE is your only way of playing, it can't be helped I suppose. 

As for your other problem; P1 and P2 are proration values, or simply how the damage of moves scales within a combo. P1 is the value on the first hit in the combo and is calculated once, while P2 is every hit in the combo, including the first.

You can read a more detailed explanation here:

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Damage_(BBCSE)#Damage_Scaling

[Airk]

Sorry, I thought that P1 and P2 were explained on the page.  They're 'proration' values - i.e. 'how much the damage of subsequent hits is reduced ' - which also factors into combo time, as per the chart.  P1 is applied only if a move is the first move in a combo, P2 is applied all the time.

Also, you don't necessarily need to avoid using the same move repeatedly - most moves don't actually HAVE SMP.

[Mr.Ownage]

Sorry, I thought that P1 and P2 were explained on the page.  They're 'proration' values - i.e. 'how much the damage of subsequent hits is reduced ' - which also factors into combo time, as per the chart.  P1 is applied only if a move is the first move in a combo, P2 is applied all the time.

Also, you don't necessarily need to avoid using the same move repeatedly - most moves don't actually HAVE SMP.

Oh. That's great! (I mean some moves not having SMP.) Also, do I need to multiply the proration I am currently on with the next move's P2? Like Hell's Fang has 75 P1, I RC it, go into Gauntlet Hades - Spin Kick (82 + 60 P2),does this mean my proration after these is 0,75*0,82*0,60?

If that's the case, any tips for making up my own combos (not the corner, Blood Kain and Belial Edge all the time) would be great!

[Airk]

That's pretty close.

Basically:

• The first hit always does full damage (Exception: If the opponent is guard crushed, I think the first move gets the guard crush modifier just like all the other moves in the combo.)
• The second hit does it's damage times the P1 of the first move, times the P2 of the first move (times the character combo rate, because complicated)
• The third hit does it's damage, times the P1 of the first move, times the P2 of the first move, times the P2 of the second move (times the character combo rate)
• And so on, you just keep multiplying in more P2s.

I've never been a lot of good at making up my own combos, but when I have, I've been working with practical knowledge gained from doing other combos, rather than by trying to work things out with proration values and hitstun decay "on paper";  So I suggest you learn a few combos other people have created and work on modifying them instead.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Airk
Mentioning Guard Crush

[Mr.Ownage]

While this is all pretty much good info and I HAVE been looking for combo videos, what I really don't like is that about 80% of the combos use the corner. By this I mean that pretty much any 10+ Heat combo needs to use the corner or begin near it, and I've really not seen a combo that does not use the corner.

I don't know. Maybe it's just my style but I actually hate using the corner, mainly because combos in there aren't really that stylish IMHO, and I also like to juggle my opponents around midscreen. At least in GGAC+R, I pretty much think that almost no one has to use the corner at all. For instance, we got chars who can do nearly anything midscreen (Sol, Venom, Ky, even Pot can do his stuff midscreen), quite a few chars who only need the corner for an ender (I-No, May, Johnny, maybe Ky and Robo-Ky) and then we got characters who (and I understand this) REALLY need the corner in their gameplan and effective combos (I-No again, Dizzy, Zappa with ghosts, Raoh and dog, Anji).

However, at least from what I've seen, in BlazBlue, the corner is essential for everyone to do combos. Ragna Inferno Divider > Upper > Straight Punch works only in the corner, Plat 5C after Mami works only in the corner, Litchi's 20+ Heat combos work only in the corner... you get the point.

This info here does not mean at all that I hate BlazBlue, this is just me explaining why I don't really like just doing the combos I saw online (you can't really modify them either, espicially the Belial Edge ones in the corner).

[Airk]

It's deliberate design choice by the team, and one that I approve of. Basically, a game that requires you to reach the corner to do "big combos" has more strategy and decision making than a game where what combo you can do is only based on what attack you hit with and how much meter you have.

Because if corners are important, corner carry (aka, how far your midscreen combo pushes your opponent towards the corner), control of the stage, and keeping your opponent in the corner become relevant concerns, whereas if corners aren't important, screen position becomes much less relevant.

Also, I wouldn't really recommend "combo videos" as a source of combos, because those inevitably want to show off the fanciest weirdness they can.  Consider reading the BBCSE Ragna Wiki Page and examining some of the combos there.  Even the midscreen stuff is none too shabby.

 

[Zouf]

That woul depend on the character.

Ragna and Platinum are characters that need the corner to do long ass combos.

But not all of them are like that. For instance, Hazama is one character who does not need corner to hurt you badly.

[Mr.Ownage]

I guess I made a lucky pick in picking my mains ( they both need the corner) ^^.

Also, I've been noticing that what Hazama can really do midscreen (j.C (5) twice then his spin kick, don't remember it's name), but I have trouble with finding a launcher for him that's not 214D>C.

[Putin]

CSEX Hazama can only get full combos off throws, CH, corner, and of course Houtenjin which is what you should be spending your meter on.

The character was designed to grind meter with a few short combos, then confirm into Houtenjin and kill them

[Mr.Ownage]

CSEX Hazama can only get full combos off throws, CH, corner, and of course Houtenjin which is what you should be spending your meter on.

The character was designed to grind meter with a few short combos, then confirm into Houtenjin and kill them

Heh, just saw a Hazama combo video, and I can say, the things shown there were quite badass! I never knew it is possible to combo into his 624D, it just never worked for me.

On a side note, I also find it difficult to combo into Astrals with some characters. (Yeah, cause if you have the heat against a human opponent or use the CPU heat bonus against, well, the cpu, why not?) Ragna and Platinum for example, can do 6C>dc>5D (1) > AH and anything into bubble > AH respectively, but for Litchi, I have no idea at all. Same with Hazama due to complicated input and Jin due to slow startup. Any tips for them?

[Airk]

I'm pretty sure Jin can just do Throw->Astral.

Hazama can combo into his as well, but I forget how.

Litchi...not so sure.

[Danaiden]

Yeah, Jin can combo from his throw (ground and air) into his Astral Heat (which is also an unblockable).

You can combos into Hazama's Astral Heat after 214[D]~C, in corner 3C > 236D (or 236C > 5B > 3C > 236D), backthrow into corner, 3C > Astral Heat close to opponent or if you hit him/her above Hazama with Ouroboros. It also possible to go into his Astral from a CH j.214B in the corner. Though there are still other possibilities to combo into his Astral Heat.

And here is one combo with Litchi's Astral Heat:

 

[Mr.Ownage]

About the astrals:

Jin : Yeah, the throw into astral seems useful, but is there any other way? Just out of curiousity? Like 6C > 2D > astral, would it work?

Hazama : Thanks for the reply Danaiden, they seem really useful, will try them!

As for Litchi, her Astral is really setup based either way. I had a combo which was 5D > go to about a half-screen distance from staff > 5A > 5B > 2C > 214A-214B > Reach : Last Chance > One Shot into Astral. But, I guess, hers remain either a hard to combo into without setup or simply long-range punishing astral. Or something like that...

[Mr.Ownage]

Also, I can't do (Hazama) Jakou into Rekkazan, is it only possible in BBCP? And is there any way to confirm into 6C? My last problem is that I always get a blue heat when doing 6A > 6C when using 6A as an anti-air, what to do about that?

[hipikachu]

One of my favorite things to do back in the day was to use Hazama's command grab and buffer in the Astral during this combo: 236C>2A:>5C>Astral. What you do is that you actually hit 1A>5C (buffer 63214 during the 2 hits,) then hit 3D. It's a pretty good way of ending game off of command grab when spending resources becomes risky due to bursts and whatnot.

I recall Jakou to Rekkazan being relatively easy, I think you just had to wait for the wallbounce animation, then input the super. Definitly works in CSEX.

You'll pretty much never go into 6C unless you landed a airthrow, 214D~C or corner 236D. And if those don't give you enough time to confirm...well then you need to practice. The occasional airborne 5C(1) goes into 6C, but that's usually combo filler, and not really a confirm.

And lastly, this isn't Guilty Gear. Hazama's 6A has no reason to be used as an anti-air. It's an overhead. Even then, you'll only be able to OTG with 5C or 2B. Unless you mean some other character.

[Mr.Ownage]

hipikachu:

Sorry for late reply, I still find Jakou to Rekkazan impossible ; no matter how I try to do it, I still get a blue heat. I've tried : Houtenjin > 5C >Jakou > Rekkazan

214D> (S)C, j.5CCCCC > land >5C > Jakou > Rekkazan

Both combos either give me a blue heat or are counted as a seperate combo (jakou to Rekkazan).

The 6A OTG is the same, I tried 6A (by setting dummy to jump, this way I can test it if I were doing it mid-combo it would work) > 5C, blue heat again.

Is Hazama that much of a technical character?