Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[Stryker115]

On 4/3/2016 at 6:31 PM, Zedar90 said:

Amane: You don't need to worry about that, I have already prepared a “replacement for the god”--

It's Ragna isn't it?

[Luminos564]

1 hour ago, Zedar90 said:

I don't know, it only says あのレプリカ, but I don't think it's that simple. It's probably something else entirely.

Oh boy, one more vague plot macguffin pulled out of Mori's hat. I dunno what it is with Japanese developers but they sure do love being cryptic and tease the the audience with it. Probably just do drive up sales on release date because there's always someone out there that cannot rest until they find out what is in the special sauce at McDonalds "that Replica".

So let me address something less hair-pulling.

I think Arakune is becoming a genuine Black Beast. Much of the time when he's encountered by the eggheads of this story, many comment/ask what it is that he could have consumed. So if he had eaten one of the Prime Fields and him being a miniature version of the Black Beast itself (considering what Hazama calls him in CS), it stands to reason that he could become the real deal...provided he has the right ingredients. Granted, he does not possess the Azure himself (since he's not an Entitled), but that doesn't mean he cannot eat and absorb someone that IS one. And we all know when an Azure and a Murakumo merge that they tend to create deadly results. The question remains however: who would want him to become one and more importantly, for what reason? Nine seemed intent on making Ragna into one back in Act I but seems to have changed her modus operandi in between then and now but she was never aware of Arakune before I think. It could have been Relius, that dastardly class act, but that still doesn't explain why they'd want one around.

[Toxin45]

I guess they want to replace Ragna with either Take Mikazuchi or Arakune as the new Black Beast.

[1337 H@x0r]

2 hours ago, Toxin45 said:

So Noel really is the master unit and that mu is just a vessel for her but it looks like

She also a gatekeeper to the gods/azure world

Es was once the Eye of the Azure too, it seems like she was a proto Noel of sorts but didn't grow into a fullfledged person like Mu-12 did.

It makes sense that since Es rejected being host to Amaterasu's soul at the end of X Blaze memories, giving up all her powers in the process, she ended up stuck at limbo when Amaterasu threw a hissy fit and recreated the world after the X Blaze world got destroyed by Izanami.

[Toxin45]

19 minutes ago, 1337 H@x0r said:

Es was once the Eye of the Azure too, it seems like she was a proto Noel of sorts but didn't grow into a fullfledged person like Mu-12 did.

It makes sense that since Es rejected being host to Amaterasu's soul at the end of X Blaze memories, giving up all her powers in the process, she ended up stuck at limbo when Amaterasu threw a hissy fit and recreated the world after the X Blaze world got destroyed by Izanami.

Dude Mu and noel were never the same entity and Es did grew a soul in code embryo and became a human girl .also we still don't know how Es ended up in the BlazBlue world yet.

[Fenris]

Huh, and to think all those times when Noel would just zone out and say something kinda cryptic like "Dark Susano'o" may have just been Amaterasu speaking to us directly. There were hints all over the place, but we could only really notice them in hindsight. This big reveal makes it all make sense now.

[Toxin45]

Yes yes we get it Noel is the Master Unit confirmed and Mu-12 was just a body she stole. This would also mean that she isn't a clone of Saya but rather the original prime field.

[Ogiga99]

49 minutes ago, 1337 H@x0r said:

Es was once the Eye of the Azure too, it seems like she was a proto Noel of sorts but didn't grow into a fullfledged person like Mu-12 did.

It makes sense that since Es rejected being host to Amaterasu's soul at the end of X Blaze memories, giving up all her powers in the process, she ended up stuck at limbo when Amaterasu threw a hissy fit and recreated the world after the X Blaze world got destroyed by Izanami.

What are you even talking about? Es grew into a full-fledged person in Code: Embryo, even before she gained the Azure Eyes. Es and Mu work completely differently. Es gains the Azure Eyes (not the Eye of the Azure) by inheriting the Embryo.

Where on earth did you get that Es rejected being the host of Amaterasu? For the billionth time, Es NEVER was and NEVER could be inside the Master Unit. Aside from touching it once to gain knowledge (which she would have to get from someone already inside it). Everything she did had nothing to do with it Amaterasu. Es didn't get stuck in limbo for rejecting Amaterasu. She created a human body for herself that returned to the XBlaze timeline, leaving the Embryo in Nobody's empty shell to maintain the Phantom Field.

Izanami didn't destroy the XBlaze world, since the XBlaze world is literally cut off from the Boundary, and thus the rest of BlazBlue by the World of the Tsukuyomi and Izanami doesn't exist in it. The BlazBlue world already existed alongside the XBlaze world since that is the world Watashi and Imouto come from.

I'm sorry I'm being so rude about this, but Es being in any way directly affiliated with the Master Unit is one of only two theories that completely piss me off (the other being that Unomaru/Ripper/Kiri is Terumi) because they are EXPLICITLY PROVEN FALSE AND COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE. These theories are the result of people not actually playing XBlaze but trying to come up with theories about it anyway based on one tiny detail they read on the wiki or heard from somebody else while not putting even the slightest bit of thought into the context of those elements or whether they make any logical sense (and also never seeming to actually know that Lost: Memories exists and answers so many of these plot threads). I have no idea how Es became this "gatekeeper" but at the very least it has to be the result of some new ridiculous post-LM developments and is absolutely not because of a connection between Es and the Master Unit.

[Toxin45]

5 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

What are you even talking about? Es grew into a full-fledged person in Code: Embryo, even before she gained the Azure Eyes. Es and Mu work completely differently. Es gains the Azure Eyes (not the Eye of the Azure) by inheriting the Embryo.

Where on earth did you get that Es rejected being the host of Amaterasu? For the billionth time, Es NEVER was and NEVER could be inside the Master Unit. Aside from touching it once to gain knowledge (which she would have to get from someone already inside it). Everything she did had nothing to do with it Amaterasu. Es didn't get stuck in limbo for rejecting Amaterasu. She created a human body for herself that returned to the XBlaze timeline, leaving the Embryo in Nobody's empty shell to maintain the Phantom Field.

Izanami didn't destroy the XBlaze world, since the XBlaze world is literally cut off from the Boundary, and thus the rest of BlazBlue by the World of the Tsukuyomi and Izanami doesn't exist in it. The BlazBlue world already existed alongside the XBlaze world since that is the world Watashi and Imouto come from.

I'm sorry I'm being so rude about this, but Es being in any way directly affiliated with the Master Unit is one of only two theories that completely piss me off (the other being that Unomaru/Ripper/Kiri is Terumi) because they are EXPLICITLY PROVEN FALSE AND COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE. These theories are the result of people not actually playing XBlaze but trying to come up with theories about it anyway based on one tiny detail they read on the wiki or heard from somebody else while not putting even the slightest bit of thought into the context of those elements or whether they make any logical sense (and also never seeming to actually know that Lost: Memories exists and answers so many of these plot threads). I have no idea how Es became this "gatekeeper" but at the very least it has to be the result of some new ridiculous post-LM developments and is absolutely not because of a connection between Es and the Master Unit.

I don't know about that  Mori knows how to troll us and I don't think he said that Xblaze was over.

[Fenris]

50 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

*snips*

Yes.

Also, this got me thinking that Gatekeeper Es might be an alternate Es from an alternate timeline (the BB timeline?). Either that, or the events of her being this so-called gatekeeper took place in some weird gap of time during all those boundary shenanigans in XBlaze that for whatever reason weren't shown in said game (i.e., behind the scenes). She may have taken on the job some time during this illusory "gap of time." This is assuming that this gatekeeper role doesn't involve her having to stand in front of that gate for all eternity (it might just be a place she frequently goes off to and visits to check and see how things are doing). Again, it is unknown when this could've happened, though some mysterious gap of time seems likely. Reminds me of the time when Celica touched that mirror in the Phase Shift novels, which inadvertently led to her appearance in Chronophantasma.

[Toxin45]

3 minutes ago, Fenris said:

Yes.

Also, this got me thinking that Gatekeeper Es might be an alternate Es from an alternate timeline (the BB timeline?). Either that, or the events of her being this so-called gatekeeper took place in some weird gap of time during all those boundary shenanigans in XBlaze that for whatever reason weren't shown in said game (i.e., behind the scenes). She may have took on the job some time during this illusory "gap of time." This is assuming that this gatekeeper role doesn't involve her having to stand in front of that gate for all eternity (it might just be a place she frequently goes off to and visits to check and see how things are doing). Again, it is unknown when this could've happened, though some mysterious gap of time seems likely. Reminds me of the time when Celica touched that mirror in the Phase Shift novels, which inadvertently led to her appearance in Chronophantasma.

Problem the Wadtsumi incident never existed in the BlazBlue timeline so without that Touya and Es would never exist.

[Fenris]

1 minute ago, Toxin45 said:

Problem the Wadtsumi incident never existed in the BlazBlue timeline so without that Touya and Es would never exist.

Which makes it more likely that this Es is from the XB timeline and for whatever reason--at whatever time--she may have served as this gatekeeper, which is what I touched upon starting with the second sentence of my last post. Es was shown to have a happy ending, having returned to life as a normal human in Lost Memories; however, there were instances in which she witnessed some boundary shenanigans in the Code Embryo. I theorize that she might've become this so-called gatekeeper during those shenanigans, but it wasn't shown in the game for whatever reason. After all, time is said to flow differently in the boundary. Who knows how many things--aside from what was shown--she could've seen or done in the boundary during that time.

Here's a weird real-life example: It's like a friend heading off to the store to pick up a couple beers and coming back with a busted nose, a change of clothes, and a tattoo. All you were told is that he was going to the store, though there may be hints of other things happening while he was away--you just don't know what, especially depending on the time it took him to return. All you're left thinking is "Wtf could've happened on your way to and from the store?" And you'd likely never find out unless your friend outright tells you.

If this isn't the case, then another likely explanation is that something must've happened post-Lost Memories which led to Es becoming this gatekeeper, which Ogiga touches upon in his post.

[Toxin45]

I think there is gonna be an xblaze 3 and also Es is involed with something and where is that location is also what Noel is protecting that makes it suspicious.

[IsItWitty]

Alright. Could someone aid me in cleaning this up in my head?

So, Noel, Noel-Noel, is the soul/consciousness of the original Prime Field Device, the one that came into contact with Amaterasu and was sealed in the Boundary, yeah?

And somehow she came into being the girl inside?

Then later took PFD 12's body as a vessel?

And now, the thing that was left in the Coffin in the MU is somehow out and about, presumably chilling inside Noel, who's split herself from Mu?

I'm wholly confused.

[Ogiga99]

21 minutes ago, Fenris said:

Which makes it more likely that this Es is from the XB timeline and for whatever reason--at whatever time--she may have served as this gatekeeper, which is what I touched upon starting with the second sentence of my last post. Es was shown to have a happy ending, having returned to life as a normal human in Lost Memories; however, there were instances in which she witnessed some boundary shenanigans in the Code Embryo. I theorize that she might've become this so-called gatekeeper during those shenanigans, but it wasn't shown in the game for whatever reason. After all, time is said to flow differently in the boundary. Who knows how many things--aside from what was shown--she could've seen or done in the boundary during that time.

Here's a weird real-life example: It's like a friend heading off to the store to pick up a couple beers and coming back with a busted nose, a change of clothes, and a tattoo. All you were told is that he was going to the store, though there may be hints of other things happening while he was away--you just don't know what, especially depending on the time it took him to return. All you're left thinking is "Wtf could've happened on your way to and from the store?" And you'd likely never find out unless your friend outright tells you.

If this isn't the case, then another likely explanation is that something must've happened post-Lost Memories which led to Es becoming this gatekeeper, which Ogiga touches upon in his post.

This also has quite a few problems.

One, Es has the Crystal Sealing Blade: Murakumo in Naoto's Act 2. Es dropped the Murakumo before she fell into the Boundary and during her time as the Embryo Touya wielded it. As it stands it is impossible for to have had both the Murakumo and the Azure Eyes at the same time so the only logical conclusion is that this is Es after LM who somehow regained the power of the Embryo.

Two, immediately after erasing herself from the XBlaze timeline Es used most of the Embryo's power to create the World of the Tsukuyomi to seal the Wadatsumi Gate and separate the XBlaze world from the rest of the Boundary. After this, she only had enough power to reset causality to "nothing happened" (as in she could only turn back time to before Freaks killed everybody but could not effect the outcome). She would be far too weak to effectively serve as such a "scary gatekeeper."

Three, Nine's stage is the Phantom Field. The Phantom Field was created by Es purging her memories after falling into despair and scattering her memories in the form of crystallized Memory Fragments. This transformed the World of the Tsukuyomi into the Phantom Field and created Nobody as the manifestation of the Embryo inside Es' body. The Phantom Field can only exist as long as the Embryo remains inside it. Since the Phantom Field exists outside of time, in order for it to always exist, the Embryo must always be inside it and therefore Es must have already become Nobody. Especially when you consider that Nine knows about it because of her experience as Watashi and from the linear time inside the Phantom Field, she can only return to it after Nobody became an empty shell. Es cannot exist in both the Phantom Field and wherever she is as the gatekeeper at the same time.

Four, Nobody had no idea that alternate timelines exist. She assumed that there was only one timeline until Watashi told her that the Wadatsumi Incident never happened in her world. Since Nobody does in fact remember that she is Es, if Es experienced Central Fiction due to being the gatekeeper before becoming Nobody, then logically she would either be aware of all those events and how changing Touya's could effect those or know that they are from a different world than the XBlaze one.

Five, how can you reconcile Es being pre-Lost: Memories with her meeting Watashi and Imouto (Nine and Celica) in LM? If Es does become involved in CF, it is pretty much impossible that she will not encounter either of them. If Es had met the two of them, I find it hard to believe that she couldn't figure out that they are Watashi and Imouto when they look exactly the same. Also, Nine and Celica will definitely recognize Es so what is the point of including Es and all of that interpersonal drama if Es doesn't even know them? Having Es not remember them renders Watashi and Imouto's role in Lost: Memories completely and utterly pointless (and ruins the foreshadowing of Es regaining Nobody's memories of them and her and Watashi promising to meet each other again at the end of the game).

Basically, I don't see how it could make sense unless it's post-LM.

50 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

I think there is gonna be an xblaze 3 and also Es is involed with something and where is that location is also what Noel is protecting that makes it suspicious.

If we were gonna get an XBlaze 3 before Central Fiction gets a console release, it probably would have been announced by now. Granted we also desperately need a third Bloodedge Experience novel to explain all the Naoto crap so who knows what Mori is planning with bringing those two characters in.

[1337 H@x0r]

Uh, I never said that Es was inside Amaterasu.

I said that Noel tried to manifest in her like she did with Mu but ultimately it failed.

Es gave up on being the successor of the Azure which would be akin to Mu-12 kicking Noel's soul back to her coffin.

Also, Sechs was heavily implied to be under Izanami's control so she likely succeed in destroying that particular world at some point for Es to become Amaterasu's book guardian

[Volt]

21 minutes ago, IsItWitty said:

Alright. Could someone aid me in cleaning this up in my head?

So, Noel, Noel-Noel, is the soul/consciousness of the original Prime Field Device, the one that came into contact with Amaterasu and was sealed in the Boundary, yeah?

And somehow she came into being the girl inside?

Then later took PFD 12's body as a vessel?

And now, the thing that was left in the Coffin in the MU is somehow out and about, presumably chilling inside Noel, who's split herself from Mu?

I'm wholly confused.

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective.

The Original PFD came in contact with Amaterasu, developed a soul and stuff and her body is currently inside Amaterasu, that is the girl we saw in most Act II endings. As of right now, she is completely isolated inside the Amaterasu.

Noel, the Eye of the Azure, is her consciousness/good side/something like that. That is the Noel we all know since CT.

As we recently found out, Noel hijacked the 12th PFD, Mu. Something happened after CP and they're split inside the Embryo.

 

So instead of Noel being the Girl Inside Amaterasu, The Girl Inside Amaterasu was revealed to be the Original PFD and Noel is the OPFD's soul.

[IsItWitty]

2 minutes ago, Volt said:

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective.

The Original PFD came in contact with Amaterasu, developed a soul and stuff and her body is currently inside Amaterasu, that is the girl we saw in most Act II endings. As of right now, she is completely isolated inside the Amaterasu.

Noel, the Eye of the Azure, is her consciousness/good side/something like that. That is the Noel we all know since CT.

As we recently found out, Noel hijacked the 12th PFD, Mu. Something happened after CP and they're split inside the Embryo.

 

So instead of Noel being the Girl Inside Amaterasu, The Girl Inside Amaterasu was revealed to be the Original PFD and Noel is the OPFD's soul.

So then, wouldn't the Amaterasu that the OPFD met, have been empty?

Or rather, I suppose it wouldn't have given what Rachel said might happen if an empty Master Unit was sent back.

That's what's really throwing me off.

[Ogiga99]

31 minutes ago, 1337 H@x0r said:

Uh, I never said that Es was inside Amaterasu.

I said that Noel tried to manifest in her like she did with Mu but ultimately it failed.

Es gave up on being the successor of the Azure which would be akin to Mu-12 kicking Noel's soul back to her coffin.

Also, Sechs was heavily implied to be under Izanami's control so she likely succeed in destroying that particular world at some point for Es to become Amaterasu's book guardian

Why would Amaterasu try to manifest inside Es? Amaterasu manifesting seems to be directly connected to the events starting from the 100 year time loop that ultimately are leading to Doomsday, which Es has absolutely no connection to. Furthermore, Amaterasu seems to have a connection to Prime Fields but Es is turned into a normal human in Lost: Memories.

Since I haven't heard it recently I completely forgot; "Sechs was controlled by Izanami" is a third impossible and stupid theory that people only spout when they've clearly never actually played the XBlaze games, thanks for reminding me. Any connection to Izanami even remotely hinted at in CE is proven to be a red herring in LM. The person Sechs was talking to via his Crystal is revealed to be a "mysterious doppelganger of himself" that existed within him for unknown reasons due to him being an artificial human. This doppelganger behaves nothing like Izanami (for one thing, he and Sechs truly consider each other friends) and isn't hostile or malicious in the slightest. Furthermore, it is explicitly shown in Sechs' Additional Scenario that Sechs himself is the one who comes up with his plan to flood the world with seithr and destroy the world, not whoever he is talking to. Sechs' motivation stems from his existential crisis of not being "real" and what exactly that says about the world. He came to his nihilist conclusions on his own. Furthermore, like with people assuming Unomaru is Terumi due to superficial reasons despite the two having completely different and incompatible motivations (Terumi believes that the true nature of the world is despair and thus wants to create a world that doesn't "lie" about this where everyone just kills each other, while Unomaru wants to SAVE the world by removing free will from humanity because he believes people's inner darkness with ultimately destroy the world), Sechs and Izanami might have similar methods (opening Gates and flooding the world with seithr and a plan centered around the Embryo), but their underlying desires and ultimate goals have nothing in common. Izanami believes that death is the natural state of the world, and wants to grant this death to everyone to create a silent world. On the other hand, Sechs believes that the entire world is chaotic and out of balance. He believes that the world's proper state can only be achieved by collecting all of the souls of humanity together (essentially making the world a giant ball of seithr and souls) to create a world of perfect order, a world without the concept of life or death. They are completely different. Even if by some impossible circumstances Izanami did manipulate Sechs, after that failed she would have no way to continue her plans since the World of the Tsukuyomi sealed the XBlaze world from the Boundary, leaving Izanami unable to enter it to interfere and making targeting the world ultimately pointless since it is a small partition of the world as a whole that is her target.

[Toxin45]

Well the gate that Es appears makes me think that Ed will be a major player.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

2 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

One, Es has the Crystal Sealing Blade: Murakumo in Naoto's Act 2. Es dropped the Murakumo before she fell into the Boundary and during her time as the Embryo Touya wielded it. As it stands it is impossible for to have had both the Murakumo and the Azure Eyes at the same time so the only logical conclusion is that this is Es after LM who somehow regained the power of the Embryo.

But what if this Es that appeared in Naoto Act 2 is an Es from a different possibility, like Naoto was mentioned by Relius in his Act 3? An Es that didn't have dropped the Crystal Sealing Blade: Murakumo.

Correct me if I am wrong about it. I don't know much about Xblaze nor the consequences if she didn't drop the Murakumo or falling into the Boundary or anything else.

[1337 H@x0r]

TLDR

Some people need to take a chill pill, were are only dealing with speculations about a plot involving reality manipulation, time travel and interdimentional possession by disembodied souls with split personalities but they argue that theories are stupid?

LOL!

 

I am only talking about what being the eye of Azure means and why Es was temporarily it.

Es, like Mu, is an artificial human created to serve as a weapon or container for Embryo/Black Beast shenanigans but thanks to interaction with good people they developed into a full fledged person and broke a recurring loop of tragedies.

Since OPFD longs for family and friends, her soul hitch hikes those bodies which come to be called the Eye of Azure.

Es split like Noel into herself and Nobody, only that she was herself while OPFD was most likely Nobody and returned to Amaterasu once the was left alone in the Boundary.

[Fenris]

3 hours ago, Ogiga99 said:

This also has quite a few problems.

One, Es has the Crystal Sealing Blade: Murakumo in Naoto's Act 2. Es dropped the Murakumo before she fell into the Boundary and during her time as the Embryo Touya wielded it. As it stands it is impossible for to have had both the Murakumo and the Azure Eyes at the same time so the only logical conclusion is that this is Es after LM who somehow regained the power of the Embryo.

Two, immediately after erasing herself from the XBlaze timeline Es used most of the Embryo's power to create the World of the Tsukuyomi to seal the Wadatsumi Gate and separate the XBlaze world from the rest of the Boundary. After this, she only had enough power to reset causality to "nothing happened" (as in she could only turn back time to before Freaks killed everybody but could not effect the outcome). She would be far too weak to effectively serve as such a "scary gatekeeper."

Three, Nine's stage is the Phantom Field. The Phantom Field was created by Es purging her memories after falling into despair and scattering her memories in the form of crystallized Memory Fragments. This transformed the World of the Tsukuyomi into the Phantom Field and created Nobody as the manifestation of the Embryo inside Es' body. The Phantom Field can only exist as long as the Embryo remains inside it. Since the Phantom Field exists outside of time, in order for it to always exist, the Embryo must always be inside it and therefore Es must have already become Nobody. Especially when you consider that Nine knows about it because of her experience as Watashi and from the linear time inside the Phantom Field, she can only return to it after Nobody became an empty shell. Es cannot exist in both the Phantom Field and wherever she is as the gatekeeper at the same time.

Four, Nobody had no idea that alternate timelines exist. She assumed that there was only one timeline until Watashi told her that the Wadatsumi Incident never happened in her world. Since Nobody does in fact remember that she is Es, if Es experienced Central Fiction due to being the gatekeeper before becoming Nobody, then logically she would either be aware of all those events and how changing Touya's could effect those or know that they are from a different world than the XBlaze one.

Five, how can you reconcile Es being pre-Lost: Memories with her meeting Watashi and Imouto (Nine and Celica) in LM? If Es does become involved in CF, it is pretty much impossible that she will not encounter either of them. If Es had met the two of them, I find it hard to believe that she couldn't figure out that they are Watashi and Imouto when they look exactly the same. Also, Nine and Celica will definitely recognize Es so what is the point of including Es and all of that interpersonal drama if Es doesn't even know them? Having Es not remember them renders Watashi and Imouto's role in Lost: Memories completely and utterly pointless (and ruins the foreshadowing of Es regaining Nobody's memories of them and her and Watashi promising to meet each other again at the end of the game).

Basically, I don't see how it could make sense unless it's post-LM.

If we were gonna get an XBlaze 3 before Central Fiction gets a console release, it probably would have been announced by now. Granted we also desperately need a third Bloodedge Experience novel to explain all the Naoto crap so who knows what Mori is planning with bringing those two characters in.

Quite a head-scratcher. *Sighs.* The only solution to this is that Gatekeeper Es is from yet another timeline that neither contradicts her existence nor the events leading up to now (BBCF). Either this, or the grandest of all plot holes/retcon.

[Toxin45]

So since Noel is the original prime field's soul from the master unit that means Noel is not related to ragna Jin or saya since she would be way old

[Volt]

2 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

So since Noel is the original prime field's soul from the master unit that means Noel is not related to ragna Jin or saya since she would be way old

Uhh... You know that Noel was specifically stated to not be directly related to them almost a thousand times now, right? Mu was born when Ibukido was nuked, Noel is like, 5 years old.

However, we don't know Ragna, Jin or Saya's true origins, so related might be a bit of a stretch in any case.