Central Fiction Arcade Plot Discussion (spoilers)

[BlazGearRegalia]

7 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

Remember, Izanami is possessing Saya's body. Izanami herself is Amaterasu's Drive but she is still using Saya's body as a vessel. We learned in her Act 3 mode that Saya has the ability to infinitely amplify seithr and was modified by Relius. She's still there.

Thank you very much, I actually forgot about that.

 

13 minutes ago, Volt said:

Not really. Izanami is a drive, yes, but her vessel? Definitely Saya. Or as her brother says (activating OD) SAYAAAAAA.

 

Edit: Dang, ninjas everywhere.

 

 

Oh boy, now I remember how he yelled out her name, still hilarious in my head everytime...

 

 

 

And while I'm on the topic on those little Saya clones running around, I have an odd and frustrating feeling we might have to go rescue Noel... AGAIN... Seriously, from looking at her Act 3 ending, I just can't think of any other possible outcome with that interaction between her and Terumi.

[Ogiga99]

19 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

Well actually Noel and Mu were never the same entity turns out Noel was the master unit and the origin simply using Mu's body as a vessel also apparently she is also guarding a gate within Ragna just like Es for some reason.

None of that is confirmed. All we know is that right now Noel is the Original Prime Field Device. The Original Prime Field was inside the Master Unit but it is now vacant. This suggests that the Noel/Mu split is the result of the Noel we've known throughout this series (the 12th Prime Field who contains a fragment of Saya's soul) becoming Mu and the soul of the OPFD is inhabiting Noel. It is impossible for Noel to have always had the soul of the OPFD. Noel being the OPFD is the reason the Master Unit is vacant. Rachel says that if the Master Unit is sent back through the Nemesis Horizon without anyone inside it then the world will disappear without Amaterasu's Observation. For the world to have even existed up until this point the OPFD must have been in the Master Unit while it was inside the Boundary before CP's true ending. Also Noel wasn't guarding the gate and it's not necessarily inside Ragna. All we know is that she saw the gate while inside of him (heh). She is the only one who can open the gate but doesn't want to and split into Noel and Mu in order to keep the gate from being opened, but she didn't guard it like Es is.

[Volt]

3 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

None of that is confirmed. All we know is that right now Noel is the Original Prime Field Device. The Original Prime Field was inside the Master Unit but it is now vacant. This suggests that the Noel/Mu split is the result of the Noel we've known throughout this series (the 12th Prime Field who contains a fragment of Saya's soul) becoming Mu and the soul of the OPFD is inhabiting Noel. It is impossible for Noel to have always had the soul of the OPFD. Noel being the OPFD is the reason the Master Unit is vacant. Rachel says that if the Master Unit is sent back through the Nemesis Horizon without anyone inside it then the world will disappear without Amaterasu's Observation. For the world to have even existed up until this point the OPFD must have been in the Master Unit while it was inside the Boundary before CP's true ending. Also Noel wasn't guarding the gate and it's not necessarily inside Ragna. All we know is that she saw the gate while inside of him (heh). She is the only one who can open the gate but doesn't want to and split into Noel and Mu in order to keep the gate from being opened, but she didn't guard it like Es is.

Woah, Amaterasu isn't exactly vacant, don't forget that. We're in a Tenjo situation here, the OPFD is inside the Master Unit, but her soul is (inside or the whole) Noel.

[Ogiga99]

22 minutes ago, Volt said:

Woah, Amaterasu isn't exactly vacant, don't forget that. We're in a Tenjo situation here, the OPFD is inside the Master Unit, but her soul is (inside or the whole) Noel.

In Amane's ending, Rachel says the Master Unit is "empty." We don't even know if the OPFD's body is actually inside the Master Unit or it was just her soul (like how only Hakumen's soul is inside the Susano'o Unit. I meant "vacant" in the sense that there is currently nothing inside the Master Unit that can take any action. Whether her body is there or not, there is no soul inside of it that can Observe the world if it's sent back to the Boundary.

[Toxin45]

3 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

In Amane's ending, Rachel says the Master Unit is "empty." We don't even know if the OPFD's body is actually inside the Master Unit or it was just her soul (like how only Hakumen's soul is inside the Susano'o Unit. I meant "vacant" in the sense that there is currently nothing inside the Master Unit that can take any action. Whether her body is there or not, there is no soul inside of it that can Observe the world if it's sent back to the Boundary.

Didn't Ragna in his act III confirmed that there was a girl inside it?So there definitely is an empty body.

[Contreras1991]

33 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

Didn't Ragna in his act III confirmed that there was a girl inside it?

Maybe amane act comes after ragna?

[BlazGearRegalia]

Okay, let's all calm down and back away from the 3 blondes for a second, since things are looking a little nutty.

 

 

Moving on to the crazy Mercury girls, Nine and Kokopuffs have been really heated with each other [silly Kokonoe, did you think you could get away with creating a Chronophantasma Celica and not face your mother's unholy wrath?]

I have a feeling they are gonna try to destroy each other. And if I know Celica like I think I do, if she witnesses this, she might jump into the crossfire and sacrifice herself to get them to realize what their ambitions had done to them. [If memory serves me correctly, Nine is crazy on magic and trying to destroy the world and Kokopuffs is crazy for science]

 

36 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

In Amane's ending, Rachel says the Master Unit is "empty." We don't even know if the OPFD's body is actually inside the Master Unit or it was just her soul (like how only Hakumen's soul is inside the Susano'o Unit. I meant "vacant" in the sense that there is currently nothing inside the Master Unit that can take any action. Whether her body is there or not, there is no soul inside of it that can Observe the world if it's sent back to the Boundary.

 

And speaking of my favorite dancing trap, I wonder what kind of plan does he have up his sleeve.

[kylehyde]

So wait, there is a gate inside Ragna? Like actually inside of him? Or am I missing something here.

[Ogiga99]

21 minutes ago, kylehyde said:

So wait, there is a gate inside Ragna? Like actually inside of him? Or am I missing something here.

I'm almost certain the gate isn't actually inside him. Noel just saw a vision of the gate when she was swallowed by the berserk Ragna. Es is guarding that gate and I have hard time believing she has been sitting inside of Ragna this entire time.

[kylehyde]

6 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said:

I'm almost certain the gate isn't actually inside him. Noel just saw a vision of the gate when she was swallowed by the berserk Ragna. Es is guarding that gate and I have hard time believing she has been sitting inside of Ragna this entire time.

That seemed silly to me too but I kept reading it as a gate inside Ragna so I was like WTF. 

[JustaMaskedFreak]

There is something that bugs me out.

What's up with the girl inside Amaterasu? And if it doesn't have "anything" to take an action how is it resetting the world then?

[MaximusMurkimus]

7 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

There is something that bugs me out.

What's up with the girl inside Amaterasu? And if it doesn't have "anything" to take an action how is it resetting the world then?

It's basically on autopilot; something game-changing is about to happen then time resets. If it wants to do anything long term (like Observe the world and save it from Doomsday) it'll have to be inside the actual unit, which can't happen because it's already inside Noel, which is why Izanami and friends stopped attacking Amaterasu itself and decided to try and kill Noel directly. Kinda like a firewall on a computer, basically.

It's also why people are lining up to try and get inside the Unit so they can control things themselves; because it's empty.

[Toxin45]

So the girl inside escaped and became part of Noel but why is Es guarding that gate and that only ragna can enter?

[BlazGearRegalia]

2 minutes ago, Toxin45 said:

So the girl inside escaped and became part of Noel but why is Es guarding that gate and that only ragna can enter?

 

It's probably something behind the gate that only Ragna can handle.

[Volt]

Just now, BlazGearRegalia said:

 

It's probably something behind the gate that only Ragna can handle.

Could also mean that only Ragna can open it.

[Yoshirocks92]

1 minute ago, Volt said:

Could also mean that only Ragna can open it.

That could be interesting but Terumi wanted Noel to merge with Mu-12 and he wanted her to open that gate as well.

[Toxin45]

Though Noel dosen't appear to need Mu to open the gate

[kylehyde]

10 minutes ago, BlazGearRegalia said:

 

It's probably something behind the gate that only Ragna can handle.

Didn't the quote say that it's the Azure's will for Ragna to reach the gate. Whatever the reason, I seems it's meant for Ragna and no one else. 

[MaximusMurkimus]

I'm pretty sure anyone can reach the Gate; it's just ideal for Ragna to do so because he's trying to be the titicular Guardian of the Azure.

Anyone else, and that's what Es is for.

[Luminos564]

7 minutes ago, Volt said:

Could also mean that only Ragna can open it.

Alternatively, since the gate is guarding the entryway into the supposed "realm of the gods" (or the Azure) it's entirely possible for Ragna to ascend to godhood by going through it, thus completing the function the Embryo was devised for. At least according to Nine but we need to remind ourselves of how screwy she'd become of late.

So, a question. Es' quote to Ragna is that "she will guide him to the Gate. It is the will of the Azure". This seems to imply that the Azure isn't a mindless power source but an actual entity in its own right. So what exactly is the Azure? We know it makes certain people into sludge smoothies and makes them crave it. Likewise, it seems to tempt (perhaps unintentionally) people like Litchi (during Ragna's CS story) or just about any of the Entitled willing to kill for their desires. And yet, something doesn't feel right. For whatever reason, I cannot really call the Azure itself "evil". I dunno why, but I instantly thought of U-Do from Xenosaga when I read Es' line. For the unawares, U-Do was, basically, a sentient "power" or rather "God". It makes the Gnosis (ethereal salt monsters) and isn't inherently malicious. It just has no ability to actually communicate with humans without driving them insane.

[BlazGearRegalia]

12 minutes ago, Yoshirocks92 said:

That could be interesting but Terumi wanted Noel to merge with Mu-12 and he wanted her to open that gate as well.

Well, he may succeed in catching them both, but he's gonna have to deal with Es before he can get through, and I'm pretty sure whether it's the real one or a different one, Es is a force to be reckoned with.

 

4 minutes ago, kylehyde said:

Didn't the quote say that it's the Azure's will for Ragna to reach the gate. Whatever the reason, I seems it's meant for Ragna and no one else. 

Oh yeah, the Azure! Wait... It has a will?

 

2 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said:

I'm pretty sure anyone can reach the Gate; it's just ideal for Ragna to do so because he's trying to be the titicular Guardian of the Azure.

Anyone else, and that's what Es is for.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[MaximusMurkimus]

7 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

Alternatively, since the gate is guarding the entryway into the supposed "realm of the gods" (or the Azure) it's entirely possible for Ragna to ascend to godhood by going through it, thus completing the function the Embryo was devised for. At least according to Nine but we need to remind ourselves of how screwy she'd become of late.

So, a question. Es' quote to Ragna is that "she will guide him to the Gate. It is the will of the Azure". This seems to imply that the Azure isn't a mindless power source but an actual entity in its own right. So what exactly is the Azure? We know it makes certain people into sludge smoothies and makes them crave it. Likewise, it seems to tempt (perhaps unintentionally) people like Litchi (during Ragna's CS story) or just about any of the Entitled willing to kill for their desires. And yet, something doesn't feel right. For whatever reason, I cannot really call the Azure itself "evil". I dunno why, but I instantly thought of U-Do from Xenosaga when I read Es' line. For the unawares, U-Do was, basically, a sentient "power" or rather "God". It makes the Gnosis (ethereal salt monsters) and isn't inherently malicious. It just has no ability to actually communicate with humans without driving them insane.

I'm getting Soul Edge/Holy Grail vibes and it sucks.

I always knew there had to be something higher than Amaterasu, the Azure is probably it.

[Volt]

1 minute ago, Luminos564 said:

Alternatively, since the gate is guarding the entryway into the supposed "realm of the gods" (or the Azure) it's entirely possible for Ragna to ascend to godhood by going through it, thus completing the function the Embryo was devised for. At least according to Nine but we need to remind ourselves of how screwy she'd become of late.

So, a question. Es' quote to Ragna is that "she will guide him to the Gate. It is the will of the Azure". This seems to imply that the Azure isn't a mindless power source but an actual entity in its own right. So what exactly is the Azure? We know it makes certain people into sludge smoothies and makes them crave it. Likewise, it seems to tempt (perhaps unintentionally) people like Litchi (during Ragna's CS story) or just about any of the Entitled willing to kill for their desires. And yet, something doesn't feel right. For whatever reason, I cannot really call the Azure itself "evil". I dunno why, but I instantly thought of U-Do from Xenosaga when I read Es' line. For the unawares, U-Do was, basically, a sentient "power" or rather "God". It makes the Gnosis (ethereal salt monsters) and isn't inherently malicious. It just has no ability to actually communicate with humans without driving them insane.

Oh damn. The Azure has a will. This is big. That completely flew over my head, but the Azure actually trying to influence the plot could make things very complicated, since we haven't seen a force with more influence in the plot than Amaterasu and Izanami. The Azure itself jumping into the fray could escalate things even further.

I think Mori's feeding us more lies, unless Blazblue manages to go on without Ragna.

[Ogiga99]

37 minutes ago, kylehyde said:

Didn't the quote say that it's the Azure's will for Ragna to reach the gate. Whatever the reason, I seems it's meant for Ragna and no one else. 

Just because the gate is "meant" for Ragna doesn't mean he is the only one who can open it. Terumi wants Noel and Mu to fuse back together so that they can open the gate, but that doesn't mean they should do it (to the point that Noel purged the Godslayer power just to prevent herself from being able to act as the key).

 

30 minutes ago, Luminos564 said:

So, a question. Es' quote to Ragna is that "she will guide him to the Gate. It is the will of the Azure". This seems to imply that the Azure isn't a mindless power source but an actual entity in its own right. So what exactly is the Azure? We know it makes certain people into sludge smoothies and makes them crave it. Likewise, it seems to tempt (perhaps unintentionally) people like Litchi (during Ragna's CS story) or just about any of the Entitled willing to kill for their desires. And yet, something doesn't feel right. For whatever reason, I cannot really call the Azure itself "evil". I dunno why, but I instantly thought of U-Do from Xenosaga when I read Es' line. For the unawares, U-Do was, basically, a sentient "power" or rather "God". It makes the Gnosis (ethereal salt monsters) and isn't inherently malicious. It just has no ability to actually communicate with humans without driving them insane.

We've known the Azure has a will for a while now. The Azure Shrine Maiden was said to be able to communicate with the Azure (this is what led to her accidentally opening the Wadatsumi Gate and releasing the Black Beast) so clearly it has to have its own will for them to chitchat.The Azure is the origin of everything, the basis from which the world was created. It seems to be the collection of all the souls of humanity, possibly with its will being something like a collective unconsciousness. All souls originate from the Azure and inevitably return to the Abyss of the Azure. In a way the Azure is more of a god then Amaterasu since it existed before the world itself and is the source of power used for Phenomenon Intervention or shaping the world with the Embryo in the first place. Obviously something like this would be WAY too much for a normal person to handle (most can barely handle the regular seithr in the Boundary) so the turning to sludge isn't just corruption, it's the Azure automatically pulling souls back to where they belong. Litchi's temptation is shown as her being drawn into the Azure, Arakune's (the most corrupted person) soul is said to already sleep in the Abyss of the Azure with him only really being able to exist because of Kokonoe's Observation, and Spinner gained a Drive by getting too close to the Boundary, which lets him use its power but risks him being sucked in. The Azure isn't malicious or even unable to communicate. Its interaction with humanity and souls returning to it is the most natural part of the foundation of the BlazBlue world. The problem is idiots getting too close to it and driving themselves insane or killing themselves.

[Toxin45]

So why is Es there and what is her connection to ragna?