NoelChan101 Posted July 1, 2016 Posted July 1, 2016 Looking at the girl in the trailer who sheds a tear if you slow it down makes half the cast trying to kill her look like huge jerks, she didn't ask to become a god and then sealed. Since she grew a soul she wanted to be a normal human girl and wants to be "saved" this makes Jin look like a bigger a-hole with his so called power of order.
BlazGearRegalia Posted July 1, 2016 Posted July 1, 2016 Well, the Power of Order seeks to balance things, and pretty much Jin has been molded into the classic hero type [and by that, I mean, a hero that only does what is right for the world] That being said, I very much agree, it's rather sad that she's become the big target on half of the cast's hit list. We must leave this to Ragna, since back in Act 3, he seems to have a plan to save the world while keeping The Girl alive. The time has come to rebel against destiny with our favorite badass Grim Reaper one last time... *plays Under Heaven Destruction II* I'm pretty sure the final battle will be between Ragna and Jin.
NoelChan101 Posted July 1, 2016 Posted July 1, 2016 21 minutes ago, BlazGearRegalia said: Well, the Power of Order seeks to balance things, and pretty much Jin has been molded into the classic hero type [and by that, I mean, a hero that only does what is right for the world Well if he kills Amaterasu he is dooming the world as the world of BlazBlue is molded from the girls memories without an observer it will disappear due to comments dropped by Amane and Rachel. In a sense what Jin is doing maybe correct but at the same time it's not he is killing someone who was a victim in all of this cause remember, the girl was a PFD didn't have a soul until she came into contact with the god and became one herself. Then got sealed cause the scientists feared her. Jin seems like a hero with a questionable justice then again the Power of Order is neither good nor evil but what Jin does can determine that I always seen Jin and even Tsubaki to have a corrupt sense of justice. Though Tsubaki is getting better she is somewhat still blind in Justice, Ragna isn't as evil as she makes him to be, Ragna hasn't killed anyone beside a few PFD's. The worst Ragna has done is beat the NOL soldiers half to death he even spared Terumi in CS even after everythig Terumi had done to him, it was even dropped in CSEX Reconstruction the soldiers aren't dead but won't be walking for a while. Though I see in like BBCF ending Tsubaki sees Ragna isn't as evil as he seems and probably respect him at one point. Even if Ragna and Noel or that girl distort the world doesn't mean you have to straight up eliminate them then again it BlazBlue, fight against destiny. On a side note: Maybe Relius was there when the girl was created and grow a soul and ultimately sealed but that explains Noel's fear of Relius in Continuum Shift. And when she beats him in CP her win screen quote has her saying " You give me really bad vibes" or something like that.
In&Out Posted July 2, 2016 Posted July 2, 2016 8 hours ago, NoelChan101 said: Ragna hasn't killed anyone beside a few PFD's. The worst Ragna has done is beat the NOL soldiers half to death he even spared Terumi in CS even after everythig Terumi had done to him Now while Ragna certainly isn't that bad a guy, especially compared to Tsubaki's vision of him, you're still exaggerating. He wouldn't be called "The Grim Reaper" if his anti-NOL crusades were entirely vicitimless. And he didn't finish Terumi off strictly because the latter still had life-link with Noel, which means Ragna simply wasn't able to kill him. The problem with Tsubaki is, she hates him less for the whole "dangerous criminal" thing and more for hurting her precious Jin-niisama, but uses the former as an excuse to justify her point of view. And judging by that line from the trailer it won't be easy to convince her that she isn't right.
Ogiga99 Posted July 2, 2016 Posted July 2, 2016 9 hours ago, In&Out said: The problem with Tsubaki is, she hates him less for the whole "dangerous criminal" thing and more for hurting her precious Jin-niisama, but uses the former as an excuse to justify her point of view. And judging by that line from the trailer it won't be easy to convince her that she isn't right. Bullshit. We've been over this. Her hatred of Ragna has very little to do with Jin and is mainly based on her (admittedly a bit black and white) sense of justice, not helped by the fact that she's been cofirmed to be part of the Power of Order. At the end of CP Rachel EXPLICITLY asks Tsubaki if she hates Ragna because he hurt Jin and Noel, and she denies it, saying that is only part of the reason. Her main reason is that Ragna is the enemy of the world who can cause the end of the world (and she's kinda right). Everyone who thinks her entire personality is based solely around "her precious Jin-niisama" has clearly not been paying the slightest bit of attention to her character development and judges her solely based on their initial impression, which pisses me the hell off. In CF, Tsubaki has chosen to fight against Jin because she disagrees with his goal of killing Noel, so if she was as obsessive as you claim she is, that wouldn't happen. From the very beginning, Honestly every time Tsubaki is brought up some idiot will spout their nonsense about how she sucks as if this is still CS and even then, you clearly forgot that her struggle has always been choosing between her feelings for Jin (as well as Noel and Makoto) and her sense of justice which was her ENTIRE ROLE in CS (beinf ordered to kill Jin and Noel but not wanting to). The only time "Jin-niisama has been a thing was when Hazama manipulated her in to thinking Noel took her place and since this is Hazama, who pretty much had an infinite number of chances to perfect the formula, who has dicked over a lot of the cast, singling her out is hypocritical. If you are still bashing Tsubaki on the same points as 5 years ago, wake the FUCK up!
Toxin45 Posted July 2, 2016 Posted July 2, 2016 Jeez dude calm down. besides about the Es in CF perhaps it's not the real one and is just her prime field body controlled by the Azure's will.
In&Out Posted July 2, 2016 Posted July 2, 2016 45 minutes ago, Ogiga99 said: If you are still bashing Tsubaki on the same points as 5 years ago, wake the FUCK up! Woah, woah, sorry! What, did I say something that offensive? All I meant to say is that Ragna's conflict with Jin is one of the main reasons for Tsubaki to be distrustful towards Ragna, and seeing how she still doesn't trust him judging by that line from the trailer, it isn't going to change right of the bat. Guess the way I phrased it seemed too toxic for you, then sorry, I didn't mean for it to sound that way. I don't hate Tsubaki and wasn't going to bash her. Still, I think you overreacted. EDIT: Guess that message really did come off more negative-sounding than I intended. That's what you get when someone who's not that great at speaking English tries to sound all snarky.
NoelChan101 Posted July 2, 2016 Posted July 2, 2016 Let's calm down 18 minutes ago, Toxin45 said: besides about the Es in CF perhaps it's not the real one and is just her prime field body controlled by the Azure's will. Maybe cause this ES has 2 blue eyes
IsItWitty Posted July 2, 2016 Posted July 2, 2016 Speaking of Tsubaki, she took Her death pretty well.
JRH Posted July 2, 2016 Posted July 2, 2016 Guys, do you think the dialog from the Act 3 teaser is from the ending of Story mode? If it is I think that means Rachel lives because she is speaking to Izanami about the future of humanity. Also, Nine is definitely going to get closure with Ragna and Celica since she asks Ragna to show him that he can end her desire in the trailer. Either way, I am really looking forward to the end of the Azure saga.
ChainRevolver Posted July 3, 2016 Posted July 3, 2016 On 7/1/2016 at 6:36 PM, NoelChan101 said: The ES thing is near the scar on her hip also at 1:23 you can see Noel and Mu doing something similar in Noel's arcade ending except it's mirrored and mu has a face this time. I can't find it. All I can see is Kagura and Jin fighting Azrael. :O
kylehyde Posted July 3, 2016 Posted July 3, 2016 20 hours ago, Ogiga99 said: Bullshit. We've been over this. Her hatred of Ragna has very little to do with Jin and is mainly based on her (admittedly a bit black and white) sense of justice, not helped by the fact that she's been cofirmed to be part of the Power of Order. At the end of CP Rachel EXPLICITLY asks Tsubaki if she hates Ragna because he hurt Jin and Noel, and she denies it, saying that is only part of the reason. Her main reason is that Ragna is the enemy of the world who can cause the end of the world (and she's kinda right). Everyone who thinks her entire personality is based solely around "her precious Jin-niisama" has clearly not been paying the slightest bit of attention to her character development and judges her solely based on their initial impression, which pisses me the hell off. In CF, Tsubaki has chosen to fight against Jin because she disagrees with his goal of killing Noel, so if she was as obsessive as you claim she is, that wouldn't happen. From the very beginning, Honestly every time Tsubaki is brought up some idiot will spout their nonsense about how she sucks as if this is still CS and even then, you clearly forgot that her struggle has always been choosing between her feelings for Jin (as well as Noel and Makoto) and her sense of justice which was her ENTIRE ROLE in CS (beinf ordered to kill Jin and Noel but not wanting to). The only time "Jin-niisama has been a thing was when Hazama manipulated her in to thinking Noel took her place and since this is Hazama, who pretty much had an infinite number of chances to perfect the formula, who has dicked over a lot of the cast, singling her out is hypocritical. If you are still bashing Tsubaki on the same points as 5 years ago, wake the FUCK up! I hope this little temper tantrum over someone else's opinion of a fictional video game character are not going to be common here. Tsubaki is a character where a lot of people are spilt on what type of person she is. Doesn't make the ones who find her annoying as hell anymore right or wrong than you. So grow the FUCK UP.
BlazGearRegalia Posted July 3, 2016 Posted July 3, 2016 People, PEOPLE! This is getting us absolutely nowhere. And by nowhere, I mean "ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE AT ALL" I think there needs to be a thread that focuses on clearing up character misconceptions so we don't have this type of shit again! But while this is still going on, allow me to settle this ONCE AND FOR ALL. [I'm gonna explain this as best as I can, and I can't guarantee that I'm fit for this, but I just don't like this kind of shit go down as much as the next person] The misconception of Tsubaki's character stems from two big factors: Her story and her dialogue/actions in all of this. So while I don't think that Tsubaki is really as bad as some make her out to be, I can see where they get the misinterpretation from: CHRONOPHANTASMA. I'm gonna focus on the finale of CP since for most of the game she was under mind control. So during the time our heroes were down at the Lynchpin, Tsubaki sees that Noel and Makoto are fighting alongside Ragna. Now of course Tsubaki has a hatred for Ragna since he's a criminal [and a S class criminal, the most dangerous], and she wasn't around to see his personal growth, so of course not trusting him was expected and justified. Now, here's where everything went south: She didn't ask her best friends why they were teaming up with Ragna. Now, I'll justify that with maybe she was just too surprised/shocked to ask then. Okay, now let's fast forward to after Ragna was forced into berserk mode by Izzy and beat the shit out of Noel and Jin. Tsubaki is looking about to head off, when she's stopped by Rachel who explains that Ragna, so should things not go well, will become a Black Beast, so in order for things to end well, Tsubaki will need to use the Izayoi to kill Rachel. Rachel asks what does Tsubaki see in Ragna. We get "Ragna is the evil of the world who must be brought to justice." Now, again, this was expected, and the same thing repeats: No questions were asked. Key word: NO QUESTIONS WERE ASKED. Now, for people that like exploring character personalities, CP tells them that Tsubaki has an exaggerated grudge against Ragna. Alright, fast forward to CF Act 3, where she does fight Ragna. This time, she asks Ragna a question: Are you Jin's brother? Ragna answers yes. Okay, good, Tsubaki, now would you like to ask for an explanation for why Ragna did so many bad things? Nope, she then goes on about how Jin will bring peace and order to the world and whatever, and then that was it. Now combine that with how she treated Jin throughout this cluster fuck of a series, and you got: Tsubaki hates Ragna for a good reason, but is unnecessaringly exaggerating it by not trying to find resolve in it and puts Jin on a pedestal. Now, if we take a look at the Act 3 of Jin, Hakumen, and Izayoi, we can see that Tsubaki isn't as so much as "Jin-niisama" as we think she is, as she protects Noel even after hearing Jin/Hakumen's reasoning for killing her. So this is my final interpretation of Tsubaki Yayoi as a character: She is essentially a good person and wants to do good, and she is an overall good friend and a wonderful heroine. However, she is still somewhat morally blind in the field of justice. She sees Ragna as the most evil person in the world [I'm assuming she didn't witness Izzy using Take-Mikazuchi in an attempt to destroy everything], and she doesn't bother to try to reason with him even when she witnesses her friends helping him and after Rachel confronted her about dealing with things so should Jin fail to kill Ragna. That said, she is not completely blind when it comes to Jin and her idol Hakumen. When things have turned sour and when both were coming after Noel, Tsubaki stands against them, as she believes that Noel shouldn't be killed, and even AFTER she heard their reasons, she still stands against them, and she also helps calm down Noel even when she attempts to kill her from the insanity that was going on in her head. Overall, Tsubaki is not so much as senselessly blind, but more as, she needs to learn to hear both sides of the story. And as quoted from the Altar: "The devil is not as black as he is painted." I hope this at least helps clear things up. As a Tsubaki fan, it also pains me when she's looked at in an exaggerated negative way, but it's important to look at the story from both sides of the coin. If I'm missing anything or you're still confused, you are more than happy to add on to my explanation or, if necessary and I highly recommend, someone start a thread to explain misconceptions on characters. Thank you, and I hope we can all go back to being friends and get back to speculating!
Luminos564 Posted July 3, 2016 Posted July 3, 2016 In fairness to Tsubaki, Ragna has never actively denied that he is a criminal nor did he ever plead his case to her. Heck, up until Celica came along, he didn't even consider the possibility that he is capable of being a heroic figure or use the powers he was given for anything other than personal vendettas and mass destruction. Oddly enough, even before his character development, he doesn't mind Tsubaki's temperament. As their Act III interaction shows, although he would not allow her to bring him down, he does ultimately appreciate the fact she looks out for Jin. Tsubaki's line in the trailer about not being able to trust him does imply to me that the two were able to somehow form the shakiest of alliances. Or at least, someone convinced her to let him be for the time being. It'd make no sense otherwise. Perhaps Ragna ran his gameplan by her or some such deal and she only got angry once she realized what it entails? We do know Ragna is playing the Wish-Blocker at the BB all-star slamfest but when you consider that it means he now has to stand in the way of everyone's desires (including Jin's whom Tsubaki supports), it's not unusual that she'd be cross with him.
Fenris Posted July 3, 2016 Posted July 3, 2016 Tsubaki just seems to have been an all-around flawed character from the get-go, in my opinion. I mean, she seems pretty cool for the reserved and conservative type whenever she's with Noel and the gang, but outside of that she's a mess. I can't seem to pinpoint a modicum of character development from her thus far. There have been instances where it appeared she improved as a person, but then she'd fall right back into her Mary Sue blind justice shtick. It's almost as if Mori is afraid to change this aspect of hers out of fear that she'd lose the one thing that makes her Tsubaki. Either that, or he's been saving all of her development until the very end when/where it would shine at its best? I don't know.
NoelChan101 Posted July 3, 2016 Posted July 3, 2016 12 hours ago, ChainRevolver said: I can't find it. All I can see is Kagura and Jin fighting Azrael. :O Slow the video down at 0.5 speed
Kenji Harima Posted July 3, 2016 Posted July 3, 2016 On 1.07.2016 at 11:46 PM, NoelChan101 said: Looking at the girl in the trailer who sheds a tear if you slow it down makes half the cast trying to kill her look like huge jerks, she didn't ask to become a god and then sealed. Since she grew a soul she wanted to be a normal human girl and wants to be "saved" this makes Jin look like a bigger a-hole with his so called power of order. I'm afraid that „The Truth” is even worse and it might including more characters other than „The Girl”. However except of looks the other thing which Noel and ”The Girl” possess it's writing. I mentioned it in one of my first posts but the thing is if „The Girl” is the author of „book”. These flashbacks before Ragna's speech suggest that we are really coming to end and general atmosphere in the Central Fiction is going to be definitely darker than in Calamity Trigger. Ragna probably will rescue „The Girl” but not in the way like she has been wishing (a classic „white knight save the princess”) because he stated in his Act 3 that he will reject even god's desire. Still Saya's case is intriguing. I mean Ragna in the beginning of Chronophantasma was going to kill Saya by Kushinada's Lynchpin(!). What happened? Did he really accept Noel as Saya's replacement or/and he just assumed that Saya can't be saved and in order to realize the „greater aim” (mainly to put an end this entire conflict) he has decided to sacrifice her? Except of spare Terumi life where he had a reason he also spared Arakune, Jin and Nu-13. If I am able to understand why heroes don't really care about Tenjo (he „died” so he will need a vessel to act in the real world so ...„perish totally” within Kushinada's Lynchpin because your soul is needed Tenjo) it's not easy if we are speaking about Saya's life. Comparing Ragna's decision with his actions and words in previous games it looks so inconsistent and strange as well (even dumb). I am also wondering if they put Noel's „Nii-sama” for nothing in CP. You know „Only memories. Don't bother about it too much” so it's easily overthrowing further speculations BUT on the other hand these memories saved her from Arakune. Of course they might be artificial (because mainly/only soul contains memories) but I am just guessing if Noel-Saya potential relation will end only as „base/copy”. ----------------------------------- I hope I won't be punished for below offtop but I need to reply Yoshi. On 1.07.2016 at 10:25 PM, Yoshirocks92 said: I know but ever since Act 2 was released back in January and I saw The Girl strapped up to the Master Unit and learning that Noel and Mu-12 split up has opened up a lot of questions about Noel's true origins since in Act 3, Noel was afraid and scared since her true memories are coming back to her and that she can only be killed by sealing her soul with Kushinada's Lynchpin or by killing her with Izayoi's Immortal Breaker and this is coming from the same guy who originally though that Noel was Mu-12 during the events of the first three games and now that they split up in Central Fiction has opened up a lot of questions to me since I've been following Noel's story since I started liking the series back in 2011 which also happens to be the same time that Noel became my all time favorite female video game character just like how Yoshi from the Mario series is my all time favorite male video game character. *Ekhem* Yo I think that I am able to understand your „feelings”. The truth is that Noel creation... No, to hell with this review's term. Noel... is just amazing. So simple but this simplicity is incredibly adorable. The modern games/movies/books usually have a deep-traumatized-overdramatized characters and in all this mix you have an old archetype which is really fresh in these days. Her personality consits several warm traits: she is innocent, caring and lovely person. Her kindness and sensitive were enough to link several people through the story (I am including mangas, games and novels). The excellent thing is that ArcSys emphasized much more personality by her delicate looks. Noel is a gentle beauty who possesses cute face, elf-like blond hair, these green eyes which is looking so honestly and proportional body. She isn't another and typical „boobie lady (I don't mean Litchi. It's general statement). Like you see I don't call Noel „Angel” for nothing. Though Calamity Trigger fascinated me the Continuum Shift totally absorbed me into this world. The climax of Continuum Shift was so epic. In my opinion it's the best game-narrative in the BB series. First we have an occasion to kick Terumi ass badly, then we need to fight with Mu-12 in goal to save Noel and finally... this touching scene between them: Ragna's speech to Noel, Ragna's sacrifice, next Ragna who was laying on her legs, their conversation and... „Stardust Memory” in the background... I very like their subtle relationship. In BB-related creations Ragna seems to be kindly toward Noel. For example: Spoiler Damn! I don't know by what characters Mori was inspired (maybe this his personal dream girl lol) but I really don't care. I am glad that we are able to enjoy Noel existence. Believe me. If something bad will happen to her or she will die I am going to drink a lot of booze.
Yoshirocks92 Posted July 4, 2016 Posted July 4, 2016 3 hours ago, Kenji Harima said: *Ekhem* Yo I think that I am able to understand your „feelings”. The truth is that Noel creation... No, to hell with this review's term. Noel... is just amazing. So simple but this simplicity is incredibly adorable. The modern games/movies/books usually have a deep-traumatized-overdramatized characters and in all this mix you have an old archetype which is really fresh in these days. Her personality consits several warm traits: she is innocent, caring and lovely person. Her kindness and sensitive were enough to link several people through the story (I am including mangas, games and novels). The excellent thing is that ArcSys emphasized much more personality by her delicate looks. Noel is a gentle beauty who possesses cute face, elf-like blond hair, these green eyes which is looking so honestly and proportional body. She isn't another and typical „boobie lady (I don't mean Litchi. It's general statement). Like you see I don't call Noel „Angel” for nothing. Though Calamity Trigger fascinated me the Continuum Shift totally absorbed me into this world. The climax of Continuum Shift was so epic. In my opinion it's the best game-narrative in the BB series. First we have an occasion to kick Terumi ass badly, then we need to fight with Mu-12 in goal to save Noel and finally... this touching scene between them: Ragna's speech to Noel, Ragna's sacrifice, next Ragna who was laying on her legs, their conversation and... „Stardust Memory” in the background... I very like their subtle relationship. In BB-related creations Ragna seems to be kindly toward Noel. For example: Hide contents Damn! I don't know by what characters Mori was inspired (maybe this his personal dream girl lol) but I really don't care. I am glad that we are able to enjoy Noel existence. Believe me. If something bad will happen to her or she will die I am going to drink a lot of booze. Mmm I see and in my case this would be like the whole "I'm going to be really sad if my favorite character gets killed off in the story" thing since I really like Noel so much that if I ever gotten married and had a daughter, I would name her, Noel since it's such a cute and a very adorable name.
churchblue Posted July 4, 2016 Posted July 4, 2016 There is still no new info about Naoto. I think he will encounter Es and fight will break out. I really thought Naoto heard of Es from Mei at some point. I really want to see Nine VS Es in animation (it would awesome as hell). I'm still sticking with Es and Noel be related until the game clarify the information.
Fenris Posted July 4, 2016 Posted July 4, 2016 10 hours ago, Yoshirocks92 said: Mmm I see and in my case this would be like the whole "I'm going to be really sad if my favorite character gets killed off in the story" thing since I really like Noel so much that if I ever gotten married and had a daughter, I would name her, Noel since it's such a cute and a very adorable name. Haha. No one truly dies in Blazblue; they just hang out in the Boundary Lounge awaiting their turn to appear in the story. This is a shounen-based series, and chances are incredibly low that anyone of importance--namely, the main heroine--will die. Mori wouldn't close the story like that. If that hypothetically were to happen, however, it would probably end with Ragna kicking the bucket, and even that's a stretch. I theorize that the game will end with the wielder of the A. Unit (or some other asspull) doing one massive, final reset. The world will likely be born anew with some notable changes such as a lack of the need for seithr or something, similar to the end of Final Fantasy 13: Lightning Returns (for those of you who've played that game). If this were to happen, I imagine it will be a world that's similar to Naoto's, whose world seems to be most similar to the real world.
Kenji Harima Posted July 4, 2016 Posted July 4, 2016 I forgot to mention that "The Girl" tattoo/sign above her *ekhem* groin (they couldn't put it somewhere else eh?) is the same as Ragna's has on his collar (except of No.5). The tattoos which are Naoto, Noel and Nu-13 have looks differently. Isn't a *huge* detail but I found this interesting. I am curious if these particular things are going to have deeply meaning.
ImmaYuukiTerumi Posted July 4, 2016 Posted July 4, 2016 I have a question. In Calamity Trigger, when ever they had a new loop, did that make duplicates of everyone? Makoto story she ends up fighting Hazama who gets pissed because she ruined his plans and mentioned Noel Vermillion. Is that the same Hazama, or is that just one from a different loop but retains the same memories because observation stuff? Hakumen is a Jin from a timeline without Noel, so does that mean there's like over 700 different Ragnas or something?
Tyrant Belial Posted July 4, 2016 Posted July 4, 2016 Well Ragna turns into the black beast. And then his severed black beast head becomes his arm in the next go. So his Azure Grimoire is just a massively compressed amount of his own heads.
Ogiga99 Posted July 4, 2016 Posted July 4, 2016 4 hours ago, ImmaYuukiTerumi said: I have a question. In Calamity Trigger, when ever they had a new loop, did that make duplicates of everyone? Makoto story she ends up fighting Hazama who gets pissed because she ruined his plans and mentioned Noel Vermillion. Is that the same Hazama, or is that just one from a different loop but retains the same memories because observation stuff? Hakumen is a Jin from a timeline without Noel, so does that mean there's like over 700 different Ragnas or something? No, duplicates are not created by the time loops. The loops are caused by Phenomenon Intervention which is basically a retcon. It takes events that have happened and make it so that they "never happened," essentially wiping the slate clean. The reason people like Rachel and Terumi can remember is because they are Immune to Intervention. A natural result of making an event never have happened is that no one will remember it but because that Intervention doesn't effect those characters, their memories remain intact. In Slight Hope it is the same Hazama (at an earlier point in the timeline than Makoto is since he is still in CT), which is the only reason he could know who Noel at all since in that timeline she died in Ibukido. It is very important to note that the only exceptions to characters simply bejng reset to an earlier time period are people who fall into the Boundary like the Jin who became Hakumen. The Boundary connects all of time and space so it can do a lot of weird shenanigans, so when Jin fell into the Boundary he popped out on December 31, 2099, the day before the time loops actually began. While the time reset made it so that the events that led to Jin falling into the Cauldron (Wheel of Fortune) were undone, resetting Jin to his default position, the second Jin was outside of the range of Intervention, so his existance as a seperate character became fact. Therefore there are exactly two Jin's, the Jin from CT's True Ending timeline and Hakumen. The same applies to Ragna since there are main timeline Ragna and the Ragna that fused with Nu to become the Black Beast which also arrived before the start of the time loop. Even when we see version's of Ragna and Jin fall into the Cauldron in CT endings they get killed by Take-Mikazuchi before the Black Beast is formed. Long story short, everyone just gets reset to an earlier version, erasing the events that happen to them later. It's basically like reloading a save file.
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