[CF] Nine the Phantom General Discussion Thread

[Ragnarok_F4]

Does she have unblockables with the seed? Is it a low hit? I've seen combos where she does a Crush Trigger then sets the seed.

[ChaseRLewis]

3 minutes ago, Ragnarok_F4 said:

Does she have unblockables with the seed? Is it a low hit? I've seen combos where she does a Crush Trigger then sets the seed.

It is a low for sure. Unclear if she has true unblockables though it definitely looks like it is a possibility.

[Zouf]

I don't think she has a setup where she can force the opponent to block the seeds, unless she uses RC somewhere.

[ChaseRLewis]

Honestly other then hits in neutral only hits I'm seeing her get is because people don't respect the fairy. Too many people not giving her buttons any respect at the moment.

[Fortune]

10 hours ago, Zouf said:

I don't think she has a setup where she can force the opponent to block the seeds, unless she uses RC somewhere.

So far, I've seen Uvarouite (fire cloud) + Morganite seed with god hand while the fairy is keeping them busy. It didn't appear to require too much preparation beforehand, also worth showing how Sea Moss Gate can be special cancelled.

https://youtu.be/ONroq_ef_-g?t=1m30s

 

[9:02 PM]

19 hours ago, Fortune said:

So far, I've seen Uvarouite (fire cloud) + Morganite seed with god hand while the fairy is keeping them busy. It didn't appear to require too much preparation beforehand, also worth showing how Sea Moss Gate can be special cancelled.

https://youtu.be/ONroq_ef_-g?t=1m30s

 

 

Yeah, that sequence is what I was afraid her game play might turn out like.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Andradite of Binding (AAW) seems to send the opponent flying on hit and wall bounces, giving more than enough time to convert into a combo.
https://youtu.be/fgkNkVU5GLA?t=289

An attempt to use her gravity seed-ish spell as oki. At first glance, it doesn't seem good though. The small delay before the spell activates makes it feel like you can easily run/jump out of it.
https://youtu.be/fgkNkVU5GLA?t=662

[Fortune]

1 hour ago, 9:02 PM said:

 

Yeah, that sequence is what I was afraid her game play might turn out like.

Ever more severe! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJLDrXOUMkk

I think the gravity spell is best to put them in a situation where you hit them where you think they will move if they try to escape. And if you're succesful, you maintain offense. It might even be more effective versus characters with slow or air-based mobility/escape options.

 

[9:02 PM]

11 minutes ago, Fortune said:

Ever more severe! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJLDrXOUMkk

I think the gravity spell is best to put them in a situation where you hit them where you think they will move if they try to escape. And if you're succesful, you maintain offense. It might even be more effective versus characters with slow or air-based mobility/escape options.

 

 

Yeah, you knew this was coming when her move list came out. Nine having unblockables was definitely an intentional design choice, that's literally the only reason to give a character a projectile that hits low. The way hers work, it seems at first glance like they would auto-bait rolls since god hand tracks, and the horizontal hit box on the seed looks large. Not a whole lot of bitching going on on twitter yet, surprisingly.

[oh no, he said]

God hand's tracking is delayed by a fair bit so in theory you might be able to roll out of it(Have we seen god hand shut down rolls? I don't recall any instances, at lest) Delaying your recovery might also work. Nine could delay the god hand to catch you on the second hit of the plant, but she probably wouldn't be able to follow up on that. It doesn't look like corner black hole electric boogaloo, at least. 

We'll just have to wait for more testing.

[Zouf]

God hand tracking the opponent is a bit retarded imo. It will be removed I guess

[BlackYakuzu94]

Eh, it looks pretty reactable since she clearly raises her hand before using it.

[Poultrygeist]

2 hours ago, Fortune said:

Ever more severe! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJLDrXOUMkk

I think the gravity spell is best to put them in a situation where you hit them where you think they will move if they try to escape. And if you're succesful, you maintain offense. It might even be more effective versus characters with slow or air-based mobility/escape options.

 

Like mother like daughter am I right.

8 minutes ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

Eh, it looks pretty reactable since she clearly raises her hand before using it.

Yeah but that's still pretty fast start up for a meterless tracking overhead projectile.  I'm not saying I see it as a problem but considering what they did to black hole I can see it getting the boot.  

[BlackYakuzu94]

I wonder if you can just jump over it. If so, Izayoi, Valk , and Tao will just be like "peace out fam :V" 

I can see Nine being a problem for less mobile characters like Tager and Hakumen tho......*sigh* yea.

[Fortune]

Personally I think God Hand (yes I will forever call it that) is great at just contesting fullscreen space at the right times rather than just cheesy mixup that doesn't involve the seed. (But cheesy mixups it has! God Hand RC God Hand lol so silly to look at)

It looks like it's good at making people stop their advance, I'm pretty sure it stopped Litchi from calling the staff and forced her to block to bring it back. Combined with 3wind spell, laser super, etc it looks like a good gameplan of just implied threats of whiff punishing/forcing a choke point in their space.

As far as mixup, the Kunzite meteor looks tougher in my opinion (you can see the spell stocked but if you're dealing with other spells or being combo'ed you're probably worried about even more variables). Reset combos involving it look cute, although it will probably be adapted to.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

On 12/9/2015, 11:43:12, Fortune said:

I think the gravity spell is best to put them in a situation where you hit them where you think they will move if they try to escape. And if you're succesful, you maintain offense. It might even be more effective versus characters with slow or air-based mobility/escape options.

 

Interesting idea about the gravity spell. I was mostly thinking it would be a great spell just to create an impassable wall between you and your opponent and then use Nine's good normals to get in on the opponent but this sounds like another useful way to use it. It might be useful to get out another spell in block strings as well if we can a good setup going.

23 hours ago, Fortune said:

Personally I think God Hand (yes I will forever call it that) is great at just contesting fullscreen space at the right times rather than just cheesy mixup that doesn't involve the seed. (But cheesy mixups it has! God Hand RC God Hand lol so silly to look at)

It looks like it's good at making people stop their advance, I'm pretty sure it stopped Litchi from calling the staff and forced her to block to bring it back. Combined with 3wind spell, laser super, etc it looks like a good gameplan of just implied threats of whiff punishing/forcing a choke point in their space.

As far as mixup, the Kunzite meteor looks tougher in my opinion (you can see the spell stocked but if you're dealing with other spells or being combo'ed you're probably worried about even more variables). Reset combos involving it look cute, although it will probably be adapted to.

Also agree with this. Right now, Navy pressure is looking a bit too slow for mixups but it is good at keeping people trying to do stuff at a distance on their toes.

Here's some more things I noticed. Today's batch focused on the daily reminder of "Nine's Normals have godlike reach"

CH Air to Air j.C converting into a combo
https://youtu.be/LfcLg239sWw?t=14

AA 6C converting into a combo
https://youtu.be/LfcLg239sWw?t=34

CH low to ground + well spaced j.C converting into a combo
https://youtu.be/LfcLg239sWw?t=121

Normal Hit low to the ground + well spaced j.C converting into a combo
https://youtu.be/LfcLg239sWw?t=158

[TD]

This is a scary character lol. No question she can do whatever she wants and her potential is completely reliant on the player.

 

is her dp that consumes runes safe on block? Or at least unpunishable?

not seeing a lot of use for sea moss gate, besides the amazing recovery frames. Stocked spells seem useless right now.

[Lord Knight]

sea moss gate is amazing

[Monarch]

1 hour ago, TD said:

This is a scary character lol. No question she can do whatever she wants and her potential is completely reliant on the player.

 

is her dp that consumes runes safe on block? Or at least unpunishable?

not seeing a lot of use for sea moss gate, besides the amazing recovery frames. Stocked spells seem useless right now.

I'd agree with that, most unsucessful Nine's that you find either neglect one strength of her (using only FI+WA normals) or don't know how to use all of her spells to the best of their abilities: the potential with Nine is definitely up there.

It is not safe on block or unpunishable.

Sea moss gate will be an important asset for stacking spells, possibly opening the way for stronger oki or even unblockables.

[MabuRabu]

4 hours ago, Frost Monarch said:

I'd agree with that, most unsucessful Nine's that you find either neglect one strength of her (using only FI+WA normals) or don't know how to use all of her spells to the best of their abilities: the potential with Nine is definitely up there.

It is not safe on block or unpunishable.

Sea moss gate will be an important asset for stacking spells, possibly opening the way for stronger oki or even unblockables.

The majority of videos I've seen so far are people using FI+WA and Kunzite and just rolling from there with MAYBE tossing an occasional God Hand/Fairy. I just find it incredibly sad to see. I mean, you have all of these cool magics to use at your disposal, the wind normals and the Rune absorber to power up your other moves and you just roll with those three as your gameplan? I know she's pretty much still only a week old but still you would think some people would throw out something different.

[BlackYakuzu94]

The fact that players are just able to still win with just her FI and WA normals because of their stupid range is beyond ridiculous. But yea, players definitely are underutilized is what she can do, it makes her really boring to watch tbh.

[FACE CLAIMER]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiP5kPFx6sw

Nine's Exceed Accel kicks her Mirror (AF Citrine of Rotation) across the stage very fast for a wallbounce. not sure of the properties on block. very cool interaction. 

[Dark Ranger88]

So, if Nine has no normal overheads...then shouldn't her spell circle betray her mixup? Like if you see that a Nine has ended a combo with "rock" at the ready, what's to stop you from staring down the spell circle and reacting to that. If the rock spell disappears from the spell circle, then you know the overhead is coming the instant she uses it. Until then, block low.

I'm specifically talking about this Na guy who was bodying everyone with rock lol.

Then all she has is God Hand for mixup, but you need meter to combo after that iirc.

[Monarch]

1 hour ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

The fact that players are just able to still win with just her FI and WA normals because of their stupid range is beyond ridiculous. But yea, players definitely are underutilized is what she can do, it makes her really boring to watch tbh.

Unfortunately FI and WA normals into Kunzite (rock) is pretty safe due to how her spacing is, not to mention fast, so the player could theoretically do it until their opponent slips up (provided you're not a character that has a way to get out of it like Platinum, Hakumen, etc). It's been working as we've seen so far (Na had a lot of success with this), we can only hope that other Nine players find ways to integrate her spells in unique ways as she has the potential for more. 

 

19 minutes ago, Dark Ranger88 said:

So, if Nine has no normal overheads...then shouldn't her spell circle betray her mixup. Like if you see that a Nine has ended a combo with "rock" at the ready, what's to stop you from staring down the spell circle and reacting to that. If the rock spell disappears from the spell circle, then you know the overhead is coming the instant she uses it. Until then, block low.

I'm specifically talking about this Na guy who was bodying everyone with rock lol.

Yeah, things like that and people blocking her normals with their faces is what might make Nine look stronger than she actually is right now. Not to say that she isn't strong, but at the level players have developed her now she can be better: it's still pretty early, so players will adjust. 

[TD]

It does seem like over time she will balance out only if there isn't some tech that breaks her down the line: given her vast move set it's very possible!

 

kunzite Rock really does seem amazing for post oki mixup.