[CT] Arakune Exploring 2B

[lunaris]

What's a 2B?

I have been doing a fair amount of testing with Arakune's 2B recently, and have found it has some uses that I've never seen anyone discuss here. I have a feeling it is being overlooked and underused.

For those who don't know, it's common knowledge that 2B is an excellent anti-air tool, albeit requiring skill and experience to use correctly. It flat out beats or trades with most aerials, is usable on reaction and difficult to punish due to its speed. On aerial counterhit it combos into a curse and 6C loop in a variety of ways.

The move possesses this functionality because it makes Arakune's hitbox extremely tiny and appears to have a disjointed hitbox. It seems to be almost as small as Taokaka's crawling animation. There is no invincibility, so it must be timed properly in relation to the position of your opponent's hitbox. It does not beat certain aerials, such as Litchi's j.B[m](although it does beat it on crossup and at certain heights).

Getting to the point...

What I haven't seen explored is 2B's use as a ground-to-ground attack. As I just mentioned, it has a hitbox almost as small as Taokaka's crawl. You may or may not be familiar with Taokaka's ability to crawl under many moves in this game. Well, 2B has the same potential, and in addition it combos into 2D on counterhit. As you have probably guessed, this means curse and 6c loop.

This is extremely important, because the use of 2B that I am proposing will always score you a counterhit(unless you fail and get hit). A properly timed 2B can go under many core moves of other character's pressure games. For example, it either trades with or goes under about half of Ragna's move list.

I'll give an example:

Tager does 5A 5B 5C 5D.

You can simply mash 2B in between the 5c and the 5d and you will dodge the 5d every single time, usually scoring a counter hit(but it depends on range; either way you can still punish the 5d afterwards).

Alternatively you can IB Tager's 5B and use 2B to counter the 5C, because 2B crouches under 5C as well.

Combo 2B into 2D and you've got a cursed Tager who's probably just lost 40% or so of his HP. 2B effectively nullifies Tager's ability to blockstring into 5D unless he delays the 5D. Tager's 2D is too slow and his 6A is also countered by 2B.

As a side note, even at maximum distance where 2B might not hit Tager, if he tries to 5D to keep you magnetized, 2B will clash with it at worst and is performable on reaction.

The above is one example of how 2B is usable as a counter to a character's basic moveset. There are many more moves that 2B is capable of countering, such as Nu's 4D and jc aerial drives, and even 5D if properly timed.

The purpose of this thread

I hope that the reader will go out and experiment with 2B to find their own uses for it, and that you'll participate in this thread by posting your own ideas about, confirmed uses for, or results of tests with 2B. Since there is no single rule that governs whether or not 2B will beat a given attack beyond hitbox comparison, testing must be done for every attack to see whether 2B is capable of easily beating it or not.

Furthermore, beyond simply whether 2B can counter the attack or not, knowing which blockstrings 2B can stop and which it can't also requires testing. Same goes for aerials. Therefore I would like to propose that we share our findings with this move as a community to better ourselves. The special "priority" properties of this move that require testing make it such that everyone should have a lot to gain by sharing with each other.

Put simply:

Post blockstrings you've found can be escaped from(nothing too ridiculous... you can obviously escape 5a Gauntlet Hades, for example), moves you've found 2B can punish, and aerials you've found can't be beaten or trade frequently with 2B. Or, of course, any other useful information you find.

Also, please post any important details about findings you make. For example, I have found 2b can completely dodge Tager Shot(41236 D), but the timing is very strict. Another example: If you're posting about a blockstring, whether you need to IB or not, etc.

General discussion of the move, how to use it, etc. is fine too.

If this thread is not supported it will simply be moved to the general Arakune thread. It's far more suited to its own thread since our community's knowledge of how to use the move could benefit greatly from testing and situational knowledge, so please support it by posting if you have anything to add.

I'll take it upon myself to compile gathered information in the next two posts, or possibly in a text document later on. I visit this site almost daily so it should be kept fairly up-to-date.

[lunaris]

This post is a list of moves which 2B is capable of countering. I will almost definitely change this into a DLable word document later as it is likely to be very lengthy. Please try to copy the format I'm using if you post something you've found, as it will make it easy for me to update.

Legend:

(T): Move may trade, depending on timing

(TC): Trades at close range, but not at long range

(LRF): May fail at long range

(S): Strict or awkward timing

(Cl): Moves may clash

(W): Both moves may whiff.

[iB]: Move listed before this marker in blockstring must be instant-blocked

[?]: Preceding marker needs verification by testing, or contains a claim that could be disputed

X: In the Blockstrings section, means "any move into"; ex: X 5C="Any move into 5C"

[Text]: Special notes

Nothing: No special note

Each character will be divided into up to three sections:

Ground moves

Aerials

Blockstrings

The aerial section will list moves which cannot reliably be countered, or which have special notes(such as moves where both 2b and the opponent's move whiffs). This is because 2B beats far more aerials than it loses to. The blockstring section will be less defined by rules, but will list commonly seen blockstrings/parts of blockstrings or gatlings which can be escaped from with 2B(such as Jin's 5C 5D, or Tager's 5C 5D) based on normal timing(if your opponent delays you may be hit).

If a character has no punishable blockstrings which have been found, the character will have no blockstring section. This is to preserve space. Same goes for aerials; if you don't see an aerials section, assume no one has found any difficulty countering that character's aerials with 2B yet. Characters with no findings will have nothing posted.

Ragna:

Ground moves:

• 5A
• 5B
• 5C(T)(S)
• 6A(T)
• 6D(Cl)
• 2A
• Gauntlet Hades 214b
• Hell's Fang 214a

Jin:

Ground moves:

• 5D(T)(Cl)
• 5C(Cl)
• 5B[First hit]
• 5A
• 2A(S)(TC)[Appears to trade with only part of the move](?)
• Ice car 214abcd[Can be tricky as the timing is different for different attack levels and ranges; getting hit with 214d is not good]
• 236ab projectiles [A version is much harder than B]

Aerials:

• 5C(TC)(Cl)
• 5D[beats 2B, but if you do 2B to counter a 5B/5C you will usually beat the startup anyways]

Blockstrings:

• 5C[iB] 5D (T)(Cl)
• X 214a/b/c/d

Nu:

Ground moves:

• 5A
• 5C[Not the whole thing]
• 5B(TC)
• 4B
• 6B
• 6A
• 2A
• 2C(TC)[Appears to easily beat 2B close range, but not as early in the animation as other moves; in other words, it's better to use 2B close range than anything else if Nu might throw this out][?]
• 5D(S)(W)[it appears to be significantly harder to dodge if you're in the range at which the projectile actually appears]
• 4D(W)
• Probably gravity fields but who cares

Aerials:

• j.2D[Only when done low to the ground; must be done while falling, not jumping]
• j. 214D[Again, only when done low to the ground, but this one can be done very low after a jc; watch out if you're trying to 2B her 4D at closer ranges]

Blockstrings:

• DD 4D
• DD jc j.2D
• DD 4DD jc j.2D
• X 4B [iB after X may be necessary]

Tager:

Ground moves:

• 5A
• 5C
• 5D(T)(S)(Cl)[Easy in blockstrings]
• 6A(TC)
• 2A
• Spark Volt 41236d(S)[just dash it instead]

Aerials:

• j.5B(T)
• j.5C(Cl)
• j.5D(W)
• j. 2C(Cl)(T)[Possible to get a clash every time depending on when he starts the move]

Blockstrings:

• X[iB][?] 5C
• X 5D
• X[iB][?] 6A

Litchi:

Ground moves:

• 5B and 5B[m]
• 5C[m](LRF)(T)
• 5A
• 2A
• 6B and 6B[m]
• 6C[m]
• Itsuu B
• Chun 236c
• Hatsu 236b

Aerials:

• j.5b[Can be beat if she doesn't do it very low to the ground, and on any crossup attempt]
• j.5d

Blockstrings:

• X Chun
• 2A[iB] 5B[Not really recommended; if she decides to spam 2a, you'll get counter hit which leads into a knockdown combo]
• 2B 6B(W)
• 5C[iB] Itsuu B [be careful, if she delays the Itsuu B or does Itsuu C you will be counter hit]
• 5C[2 hits] Itsuu B[same as above]

Rachel:

Ground moves:

• 5A
• 5C
• 6A
• 6B(Cl)
• Can be used to dodge the pumpkin
• 2 hits kills George

Aerials:

• j.2C(T)[Overall pretty easy to beat; never loses]

Blockstrings:

• X[iB] 5C[be careful, if she mixes this up with 6B you're in for some pain depending on X]
• 6B[iB] 5C[This is the only safe one]

Taokaka:

Ground moves:

• 5A
• 5B(TC) [i was hesitant to add this but I have completely beaten out this move before at longer ranges]
• 5C
• 6A
• 6B(W)(S) [i've used 2B to completely dodge the move, but the timing seems strict and it will never trade or counter as 6B has feet invincibility]
• D
• 4D

Aerials:

• 2D(T) [beats it flat out if timed properly]

Blockstrings:

• x[iB] D
• 5B[iB] 6A

Noel:

Ground moves:

• 5A [This is one of the few 5As that don't go over Arakune's normal crouch]
• 5B
• 5C
• 6A
• 6C
• 2D(Cl)(TC)(S) [since this move has low invincibility it's impossible to beat(but can trade); will clash at longer ranges. Not really advisable]
• D>5B(Cl)

Aerials:

• j.5C(Cl) [2B won't lose if timed right]
• j.D

Carl:

Ground moves:

• 5A
• 5B
• 6A

Arakune:

Ground moves:

• 5A
• 5B

Aerials:

• j.5c
• j.5b(T) [You will usually lose, but it's not especially dangerous if they don't have meter]
• j.5d

  Yes, it works on dives

Blockstrings:

• 2A[iB] 5B

[lunaris]

Combos from 2B:

If these are confusing, I'm very open to having people rewrite them. I'll update them here if you can make them clearer.

Vs grounded:

• 2B[CH] 2D 5BC bugs (insert 6C loop)
• 2B (2AxUp to 3; optional) 2C

  *The highest damage combo you can do on normal hit without heat. If you have 50% heat, you can RC into air combo into 6c loop.

• 2B 236236C 5D (insert dive combo/6C loop) [You can use 2A or 2B again between 2B and the super to hit confirm]
• 2B 2A 5B jc (start pressure; this is all you can do if you don't have meter on most characters if you don't get a counter hit)
• 6A 2B 2A 5B 5D (insert 6C loop)

  *Only works on close opponents; realistically if you hit with 6A you'd want to do 5d, but if 6a is blocked and 2B hits then you can use this. Does not work on Arakune.

• 6A 2B 2A 2C RC (insert air combo to 6C loop]

  *Similar to the above. Works on farther opponents but requires heat

Vs aerial:

• 2B[CH] j.5A (insert j.5A/j.5B as needed to adjust positioning) j.5C j.5D (insert 6C loop)

  *If no CH on 2B, you can RC 2B for the same combo; also, you can link 2B[CH] into 5B and jc that if that's easier for you(otherwise you have to wait until you jump), but it prorates more

On a cursed, grounded opponent:

• 2B ]5B[ 6A ]6A[ (insert basketball combo/recurse combo/6c loop here)

  *This combo is good for confirming curse meter and distance from corner; simply add a 5d after ]6a[ and go into a dive combo>6c loop if you're low on curse meter

• 2B ]5B[ (insert dive combo/6C loop)
• 2B ]5B[ 5D jc j.5A ]5A[ (insert dive combo to 6C loop)

  *Useful if you're running low on curse meter

• 2B ]5B[ 2B [5C] ]5C[ 5D jc j.5A ]5A[ (insert dive combo to 6C loop)

  *a little harder than the above but usable at all ranges(I think?) of 2B

If blocked:

• 2B 2A (insert 2A/6A mixup here)
• 2B 2A 5B jc (start pressure)
• 2B 2A 6A jc/2B... etc.
• 6A 2B 2A 5B jc (start pressure)

  *A good high/low mixup; 2B and 2A must be blocked low, 6A high

• 6A 2B 2A 6A 2B... etc.

  *Slowly pushes away, but it's a high/low blockstring loop.

Character specific:

Bang only:

• 2B 2A 5B 5D (6C loop)

Please post your own combos if you can think of any, especially character specific ones.

How to test:

The easiest way I know of so far is to go into training mode and simply record whatever move or blockstring you want to test(on xbox360 record is activated by pressing the left joystick, and playback by pressing the right). Then just keep playing back and trying to beat the move until you're satisfied with the results. Regrettably I don't know of a better way to test at this point, but it is safe to say that if Tao can't crawl under the move or out of the blockstring, Arakune can't 2B it(that should eliminate a lot of trial and error right there).

[thegame4ever]

Excellent post, I just figured out by myself that 2B can be used to hit Tager between 5C and 5D, and is an excellent anti-air when 5C whiffs if they dash behind you, the attack of 5C is in front of arakune, and their dash tends to avoid this, but 2B hits them even from behind. The most underrated frame in arakune's arsenal now has its proper spotlight.

[lunaris]

One thing I would like to ask: Should I note blockstrings that seem like they'd be escapable but actually are not as well as escapable ones? This would save people some time in testing. For example, you might think that you could IB Rachel's 5B and use 2B on either 6A or 6B, but you can't; only 5C. That kind of information needs to be tested, and if there's nothing listed as to whether or not a given blockstring is escapable the viewer has no way of knowing whether or not it works aside from testing himself. What would really be useful is some frame data: When Arakune's hitbox begins to descend, when it reaches its lowest point, and how many frames of different height there are(i.e. are there just two heights or does it vary throughout?). If we had the data for the lowest point, we could empirically check which blockstrings are definitely escapable, and if there are only one or two points at which the hitbox changes in height, we could calculate which aren't escapable. If Ara's hitbox goes through multiple stages, depending on the number of stages we might be able to classify levels of difficulty. Ex: If, hypothetically, Arakune's hitbox shrinks for two frames, shrinks more for 5 frames, grows for two frames, then goes back to normal, that means some attacks would be dodged for 9 frames and others for only 5(and starting 2 frames later). That would give us an ability to classify attacks by type and would allow us to better determine which attacks would be escapable in blockstrings and which wouldn't than if we didn't know that information(which we don't). Would be great if someone could come up with that information.

[PhantomX]

The block strings would help me a lot. I already use copious amounts of 2B, but sometimes I attempt to use it when I think it's safe to use but turns out it isn't.

[Abstract]

Ooooh. I like this thread. I've always thought 2B was underrated, and I didn't know it could combo into 2D on ground CH. Now I shall be using it MUCH MUCH more.

[Matt]

Hey lunaris. Here's a combo you can do if you get a counter hit off of an airborne opponent with 2B. 2B>5B>j5A>j5C>j5D>release C/B bug>c loop>c loop>recurse. Also, the aerial combo is basically anything you can do off of 5C, I just had a shorter one as an example. It seems to me that 2B is used most often as a poke against airborne opponents when the homing cloud is out or at least that's what I've seen from Souji/Hima/Fumo.

[PhantomX]

On grounded/cursed opponents you can do 2b > 6a > basketball combo as much as you want (it'll degenerate the damage from the loop though) > c loop after an A bug hit > recurse

[lunaris]

Hey lunaris. Here's a combo you can do if you get a counter hit off of an airborne opponent with 2B. 2B>5B>j5A>j5C>j5D>release C/B bug>c loop>c loop>recurse. Also, the aerial combo is basically anything you can do off of 5C, I just had a shorter one as an example. It seems to me that 2B is used most often as a poke against airborne opponents when the homing cloud is out or at least that's what I've seen from Souji/Hima/Fumo.

Yeah, I would have added this but you can actually just do 2B>j.5a, which prorates less. I'll add that one for completion though, now that I think about it, since it's a little more intuitive/easier since it's a jc and not a timed jump.

Thanks Phantom, I'll add that. That's really good.

[PhantomX]

I don't know much about prorating yet, but is there any particular reason why 2b > 6a > c loop is less preferable to those other ones you have listed up there?

[Senkei]

Didn't feel like reading all but 6A into 2B is a great highlow and they combo, leading into 2a, 5b, 5d.

[CopperDabbit]

1) Each move does less damage than the 6C hits. 2) Proration works like this: Dmg of 1st move + (Dmg of 2nd move * proration% of 1st move) + (Dmg of 3rd move * proration% of 1st move * proration% of 2nd move) +...etc. So it ends up looking like (random example): 1000 + (1000 * .75) + 1000 * .75 * .75) + ... More damage + fewer hits = more overall damage. Less damage + lots of hits = less overall damage.

[lunaris]

I don't know much about prorating yet, but is there any particular reason why 2b > 6a > c loop is less preferable to those other ones you have listed up there?

No, in fact, depending on preference and playstyle I think that's an great alternative, or maybe even the one you should be using every time. It's useful in important ways that the others aren't(recursing, confirming distance from corner, etc).

I just checked and it only does maybe 100-300 less damage(6.6kish vs 6.5kish) than using a c bug to combo directly into a 6c loop or doing a dive combo into 6c loop. The bball combo is also a lot easier if you're near a corner than a dive loop, although I think the damage difference is more significant there.

EDIT: Copper explained proration to you(although it seems like he's ignoring the fact that there are two proration numbers in this game... correct me if I'm wrong), but if you just do one 6a after 2b into a 6c loop, the damage difference is neglible as I noted in the above paragraph after testing.

EDIT2: Senkei is right. It should be noted, though, that 6A 2B 2A 5B 5D is pretty dependent on distance; if they're not very close it won't work.

Furthermore you can loop 6A 2B 2A 6A as a blockstring.

[PhantomX]

1) Each move does less damage than the 6C hits.

2) Proration works like this: Dmg of 1st move + (Dmg of 2nd move * proration% of 1st move) + (Dmg of 3rd move * proration% of 1st move * proration% of 2nd move) +...etc.

So it ends up looking like (random example): 1000 + (1000 * .75) + 1000 * .75 * .75) + ...

More damage + fewer hits = more overall damage.

Less damage + lots of hits = less overall damage.

Yeh, I understand the concept of it, I just don't really understand which of Ara's moves prorate more or less atm. Thanks for the info though, sir.

[lunaris]

Yeh, I understand the concept of it, I just don't really understand which of Ara's moves prorate more or less atm. Thanks for the info though, sir.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/arakune_data/

Moves with lower numbers for p1 and p2 prorate more. P1 is the number which determines how much the combo is prorated overall and is only applied for the first move in the combo(in other words, how much damage scaling occurs when a combo is started with that move). P2 determines how much proration occurs every time the move is used in a combo.

So, for example, the combos we're discussing begin with 2B, so any other move's P1 number is irrelevant when comparing damage scaling. You're only looking at P2.

Someone please correct me if I've misunderstood something.

[CopperDabbit]

EDIT: Copper explained proration to you(although it seems like he's ignoring the fact that there are two proration numbers in this game... correct me if I'm wrong)

I'm not ignoring that fact. There are two different proration numbers for each move, however only one applies for each hit. The two different numbers are if a combo starts off with that move, and during the move. For example, if an opponent is at neutral and gets hit with the Dbug, the proration number applied is 102%. If they get hit with it while in hit stun, the proration number applied is 99%.

Then there's that weird thing where each character just does a % damage of their own moves, but that's a discussion for a different time and place.

[inkblotgod]

From another thread, I was trying to learn the J2A > 5B combo and I stumbled onto a J2A > 2B combo. The timing is rather strict though, you have to hit 2B right as you land or else you'll just do a J2B. And if the opponent is cursed, doing J2A > 2B sets you up for a 6C loop pretty well with the auto B bug that happens from the 2B...so J2A > 2B > Bbug > 6C loop. I've also noticed that you can go from J2B > 2A or J2A > 2C...im not sure if you can do J2C > 2A or J2C > 2B...but from the pattern with the other J2's it seems that you might be able to.

[lunaris]

From another thread, I was trying to learn the J2A > 5B combo and I stumbled onto a J2A > 2B combo. The timing is rather strict though, you have to hit 2B right as you land or else you'll just do a J2B. And if the opponent is cursed, doing J2A > 2B sets you up for a 6C loop pretty well with the auto B bug that happens from the 2B...so J2A > 2B > Bbug > 6C loop.

I've also noticed that you can go from J2B > 2A or J2A > 2C...im not sure if you can do J2C > 2A or J2C > 2B...but from the pattern with the other J2's it seems that you might be able to.

i prefer 2a or the standard 5b, but yes you're right. you can do any dive to any attack, in fact.

one of the things i've found about the move since making this thread is that 2b can be spammed to simply shorten your hitbox(probably not at minimum height) for the duration you spam it for. this isn't a result predicted by intuition because common sense would suggest that arakune would have to complete the move(on whiff) and return to his normal hitbox at some point before doing it again, but it appears this isn't the case.

ex: if a nu is doing 5c, you can spam 2b at a certain rate to go under the entire duration of the move. if you're spamming 2b at that rate, ragna cannot hit you with many of his moves at all, etc etc.

not saying i recommend 2b be spammed, but i figured that property should at least be noted.

also, i've noticed some arakunes still successfully using 2b as an anti-air in CS. i read that it was nerfed but it must at still be at least somewhat usable.

in ryoko's changes he listed that 2b's vertical hitbox had been reduced and thus it would be not as useful as an anti-air. that suggests that it may still be usable for most of the things i've posted in this topic, however(since nothing was said about extending arakune's own vertical hitbox, or the move's horizontal range). since the primary reason 2b was even decent as an a ground counter was the fact that you could get an instant curse combo off of it with 2d, the attack will not be as good either way, however(i'm not sure what kind of frame disadvantage/advantage arakune is at with a 2b>2d hit).