DavidGuard Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 You can't tech roll cancel anymore, which is a great change because in CT certain characters were actually at a disadvantage when their opponent is knocked down. It was a nice advantage for Hakumen though, if you had the meter.
Brotrr Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Agreed. Can't count how many times roll + renka has gotten my ass out of the corner.
MadRhetoric Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 renka cancel out of tech-roll was certainly extremely useful but it works in haku-men's favor as well, because it means oki in the corner against an opponent is a much stronger position.
ryokoalways Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 I'm sold, 4c and jC looks legit. It won't matter if opponents get use to seeing those moves if the hakumen player can use them correctly.
ryokoalways Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 I like this combo, is probably applicable for 40% screen length. hotaru>j2c>5c>enma>j2c>2c>j2a>j2a>jc>j2a>jc>jc for about 5k. Edit: Obligatory TEYA TEYA TEYA
qwerty Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 it's a charge motion now (]2[8) instead of a 720, so yes
CrimsonDisaster Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 6C(full, counter)>6C(full)>6C>shippu for 6k+. A hop is needed after the first 6C if not at near point blank range. 6[C], 6C XX Shippu is 5.9k. CH 6[C], (dash) 6[C], 6C XX Shippu is like 7.5k. Very satisfying. You can do 6[C], dash 5B(C?) XX Enma into dust loop for like 4-5k near the corner, probably more since I keep dropping it trying to get fancy. 6-7k off CH 6[C].
ryokoalways Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 Thanks. Now I'm just wondering when will we actually land 6C(full charge). It's not possible to block something then do it from what I can tell, so the most likely cases are successfully baited DP (whiff) from ragna and Jin most likely, also Rachel's 2C.Baiting Tager's supers may also work assuming you aren't magnetized. Probably also applies to Carl's gear super (jump over to the other side), and Noel. I don't see it as possible to land it on Bang, nu, hakumen, taokaka, Litchi, among others. Spirit said it's about 1 second charge. I think it's more around 42-43F, but that's off video and probably more inaccurate. Overall though, you can bet the opponent will burst immediately if they get hit by a 6C(full charge), god forbid counter hit.
qwerty Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 if they haven't bursted already. is it just me or does this game seem to be, dare i say, sillier than ct? i mean, i could understand if hakumen got half of the buffs he did, but now he really just seems horrendously overpowered...
ryokoalways Posted December 2, 2009 Posted December 2, 2009 I don't think he looks overpowered. Firepower is never a major issue because it's the least major factor concerning the abilities of a character. It's only when it's significantly in one direction or the other (in this case, Hakumen's relative firepower is out of whack) that it may swing the match-up at all. Overall, his avg dmg is slightly higher than Bang and Litchi, but a little less than Ragna, but again that's variable to how well the hakumen player can control his meter. The bullshit from 6C full charge are very unlikely to happen also (for now, this may change. I'm sure people, including me, have ideas they want to try as to how to get that hit). His style didn't change at all either. But is hakumen a good character now? hell yes. Like I said, think AC slayer. When Slayer had no HP, people aren't going "slayer is screwed". They are going "slayer has full tension, don't get hit, by anything". Same thing with hakumen.
DavidGuard Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 But is hakumen a good character now? hell yes. Like I said, think AC slayer. When Slayer had no HP, people aren't going "slayer is screwed". They are going "slayer has full tension, don't get hit, by anything". Same thing with hakumen. Couldn't have said it any better. 6c as a fatal counter is going to very interesting to have now, however unlikely it will be to pull off.
Sophisticat Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Indeed, Haku's the kind of character to be more dangerous when low in health. This was the case in CT too, to an extent. 6[C] is going to be dishing out the hurt if we can figure out ways to land it short of yomi. Now, if 6[C] CH -> dash 6[C] -> 6C Shippu does 7.5, can someone test replacing shippu with (in the corner) -> Renka (1) -> Zan -> 5c -> Zan -> 2c -> j.B -> j.2c -> j.2a? It was the previous most damaging combo Haku had, and the addition of two 6[C]'s makes me wonder what kind of output it has now. I wouldn't be surprised if he now has a legit non-mugen combo that goes over 10k...
JackG Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 correct me if im wrong, but I believe zantetsu>5c doesnt work anymore. Also I don't mind Haku being high-ish tier so much that what he has that made him that way. I think toning the negative frames on 5c and 6c would have been acceptable, make them a wee bit faster, and he'd be fine. Instead he gets these ridiculous moves like 4c and j.c that simply lock down the opponent with no skill involved.
Sophisticat Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Quoting Ryoko: [This combo] isn't going to replace zantetsu, and zan > 5C >zan still works, it's just more corner oriented (5C range got reduced, which is why mid screen it's harder to land), which changes nothing because you don't do that till you are in the corner anyways. I corrected a top tier player! Joie de vivre!
ryokoalways Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Also I don't mind Haku being high-ish tier so much that what he has that made him that way. I think toning the negative frames on 5c and 6c would have been acceptable, make them a wee bit faster, and he'd be fine. Instead he gets these ridiculous moves like 4c and j.c that simply lock down the opponent with no skill involved. Unfortunately, that's exactly how it's going to be in certain match-ups. The 4C AA IAD is basically Jin's 5D AA IAD. On some levels the moves weren't designed well. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't excited about jC's combo potential though
DavidGuard Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 Unfortunately, that's exactly how it's going to be in certain match-ups. The 4C AA IAD is basically Jin's 5D AA IAD. On some levels the moves weren't designed well. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't excited about jC's combo potential though About jC, does it wall bounce on CH?
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 About jC, does it wall bounce on CH? No, just less tech time last iirc
qwerty Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 The bullshit from 6C full charge are very unlikely to happen also (for now, this may change. I'm sure people, including me, have ideas they want to try as to how to get that hit). i for one am guessing that it's going to be an incredible tech trap tool, at least in/near the corner. not that getting people into the corner is very hard now that we have j.C and 4C...
DavidGuard Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 i for one am guessing that it's going to be an incredible tech trap tool, at least in/near the corner. not that getting people into the corner is very hard now that we have j.C and 4C... It helps especially with the the removal of special canceling tech roles. When are you gonna get around to making the tsubaki/hazama match up threads Jackg?
JackG Posted December 3, 2009 Author Posted December 3, 2009 I guess I can go it now, but who knows how long it'll take to get to fill them up. On the topic of matchup forums, should I go ahead and get rid of the other ones and make new ones or just edit them? I'm sure some of the info people have posted in them is still applicable, but I don't want it cluttered with old info for new people trying to figure out CS tactics.
MisoSowee Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 If I were you I would.. A) tailor it so that it applies to both games (might be difficult) with little anecdotes for each game B) make two separate sections, and limit the discussion to CS C) entirely new one D) make two threads for each game (bleeeh) E) make the specific threads CS and one big thread devoted to CT imo E and C are probably better but those are just some options.
ryokoalways Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 You need completely new guides. Hakumen's style may not have changed much, but almost everyone else is redone.
4r5 Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 keep all the CT threads and just make new threads for CS edit: and retitle all the old CT threads with [CT] at the front
DavidGuard Posted December 3, 2009 Posted December 3, 2009 We should keep the old ones until CS hits consoles and have a CS thread above each of the CT ones until then.
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