[CS1] Hakumen vs Bang

[JackG]

Bang

Matchup Statistics

Japanese Ranking: 4.0-6.0

Personally:

Punishes:

Anti-airing:

Zoning:

Their game plan:

Strategy:

Char specific details:

Good mobility, good avg dmg, good pressure, and fear of furinkazan. jC makes things a bit interesting, but not much else hakumen can do safely. Disadvantage (6A nerf probably hurts a lot here, but I think it will be 4.5-5-5 in bang's favor eventually)

[ryokoalways]

~Basic Main moves to be aware of ・5B、5C、JB、nails、command throw、D moves、Ashura ~Beginning of fight ・Create some distance Because hakumen can't do anything without gauge, and the trade-off of is pretty well in Bang's favor at this point ~Long Range ・4C max range, jC max range, j2A(vs nail), catch(vs D nail) If 4C is caught by bang's drive at the tip, he won't be able to hit hakumen after teleport jC against Bang's jB. control distance, and if necessary backdash jC to beat his air approach. Under no circumstance should hakumen block D nails. Always cut it, or catch it. ~Mid Range (This is a bit confusing to me, and I don't quite agree with their approach) ・A/B moves Use sparingly against Bang due to his drive. Do not heavily rely on D cancel. ~Close Range ・Same If Bang is within hakumen's 2B max range, do not try to outpoke his 5A. ~Air to Ground ・JB Bang's counter: AA 5B, jB, dash 5A, ashura, Drive (height dependent) JC can also be used occasionally, but Bang has a fair amount of options so it's best to not get into this situation too often ~Air to Air ・JC tip、JB bang's jB is good, so do not get too aggressive ~Ground to Air ・JC、JD、hotaru (Not much mentioned here. But I think 5A and air throw can also be used here. Of course, blocking should be your first option now) ~Okizeme ・hop tsubaki、2B、Throw (This is the very basics. Plenty of things can be added on here) Keep distance at 2B max range (ie out of bang's 5A range). Beware of Ashura. ~Againsst Okizeme ・Block low Bang's 5C is not a hard overhead to block. Command throw is scary, but eating a combo is far worse. If you read command throw correctly, tk hotaru to punish. Also, players may be cautious of catch, so be aware of normal throw. ~Others ・Daifuka If you see it and you are at neutral, mash 5D (I don't see this situation happening unless they have 100% meter, as a random gamble) ・Ashura 6D on reaction for free ・Against furinkazan Retreat to the corner to avoid cross-ups. Counter with hotaru and jD, be aware of throw spam. Bang has a high number of overheads, so use 5D if necessary, but of course still be aware of throws. (These are fairly basic approaches to the fight. I'm sure more will be added later, but currently. Outside of a few things, I think it's a decent list to follow) Oh, something extra: What to Catch: 2A→2A (IB), 2A→B（IB）、B→2B（IB）、6B、2C→623B（IB）、5C、all nails、daifuka、ashura What to punish: 6B(IB)、3C（on confirm）、6C、Drives, daifuka(on confirm)、umbrella（on confirm）

[BladeOfJustice7]

Can a reactional 5d work on Asura? Is it viable to slash nails as much as possible or counter them as much as possible to IB? Or does it all depend on the situation at hand?

[Dacidbro]

Want to clarify some incorrect information, the only guardpoint bang has that wouldn't be able to hit Hakumen on max 4C would be 2D. Both 6D and 5D would be able to hit hakumen, and both should net Bang some serious damage assuming he picks up a perfect combo with them.

[huey253]

if hakumen activates bang's guard point, whats stopping him from just canceling into counter?

[mAc Chaos]

He can't cancel into a counter on most of his moves.

[Dacidbro]

But you're right, on the ones where you can, Guard Point gets massacred by counter cancel. Overall, counters > guard points. The hard part of this match up is dealing with Bang's pressure responsibly (IE not mash 6/2D, use smart IB counter, block correctly when nothing else is available), dealing with FRKZ (Haku's lack of mobility hurts him bad if FRKZ gets in on him, so if your opponent FRKZ's try to use that Haku "RAAGH" jC zoning game) and just generally understanding where Bang shines/struggles (Shines on mixup/pressure/damage, struggles on defense and his pressure is gimped largely by counters) and where Hakumen shines/struggles in this matchup (Hakumen's zoning works well, bang's projectiles can and should be cut when possible, countered when not, Hakumen may have difficulty against a bang that understands how to utilize dash grab tactics, so get good at teching throws and not getting throw countered)

Also, on Bang wakeup, if he has 50 meter and likes throwing ashura as a reversal, if you block on his wakeup and 2A shortly after he has had opportunity to do things, you option select punish a quick ashura or put him in block stun.

[Dacidbro]

Spark, could you post your information on this matchup? You played it incredibly well.

[Yukikaze]

He can't cancel into a counter on most of his moves.

Which moves can be D cancelled?

Also is FRKZ Bang with a lifelead still guranteed to win?

[huey253]

no, although if FRKZ bang is on the offensive, it seems to be one really screwed up guessing game for hakumen.

but thats most of the cast. :P

[BladeOfJustice7]

New jump c helps against FRKZ, stick to the wall(s) and super double jump with ja/b that's what I do try to combo off counter hits and kill him asap. NEVER DO MUGEN, just in case you're stupid enough to think of doing that. DO NOT USE jc unless bang is running away with the life lead during FRKZ.

[MisoSowee]

My Hotaru just clashed with Bang's 5a. :X

Also are each of the moves in his blockstrings unsafe with IB?

[aeonphreak]

My Hotaru just clashed with Bang's 5a. :X

Also are each of the moves in his blockstrings unsafe with IB?

Sadly no. Based on my calculations and experimenting in training, his main blockstrings that were easy to read & IB and catch from CT are now safe.

Such as:

5B>2B=safe (Its pretty much guaranteed if you see the 5B, that the 2B is coming. In CT, it was easy to IB and catch, but can't do it anymore )

2B>2C=also safe

Here's what i got thats unsafe:

2A>2A

2A>5B

5A>2A

5A>5B

2C>623B

This includes what Ryoko listed earlier also. Compared to what could be exploited in CT, these are harder to IB and catch. Thats all i know thats unsafe...............

[DarthTrey]

i am just jumping in here to say a mother fuck this match up. I'm fine with it for the first 15 seconds when i zone him out, after he gets in tho i'm stuck blocking his ticks into trying to guess when the command throw is coming or getting combo'd.....

WTF can i do when he's on my ass, it literally feels like i can't do anything(fuck Bangs 5A lol....)

[Ronin Jinobi]

My Hotaru just clashed with Bang's 5a. :X

Also are each of the moves in his blockstrings unsafe with IB?

i actually had that happen to me earlier today. it seems more or less that this matchup comes down to playing it really smart and playing keep away with j.C and occasionally catching some of his unsafe blockstrings, the ridiculously obvious blockstrings at least >_>(or at least that's how i've managed to win against some so-so bangs.)

[ryokoalways]

The 5C>6B/2C mix-up option for bang can be option selected with regular block on 5C into yukikaze/IB low. There is a timing on the input of yukikaze (2 half circles for the option select) where if 6B comes out, yukikaze will come out, and if 2C comes out, you will simply IB it. This is a good option select to use, as most of the time bang will simply go for the mix-up (it's good, after all). Unless you think a gimmick play is coming (5C>delay command throw/nothing), it's a pretty good thing to use.

Second, if Bang decides to do the cross up j4B, there are certain situations where 2B will shrink Hakumen's hitbox enough for j4B to whiff, such as meaty wake-up j4B, j4B cross-up at about 1 character length, etc. Generally only delayed j4B will hit 2B, but that's not too likely to happen because players wouldn't delay cross-ups as it will make it more obvious.

Edit: I forgot to mention, if you are confident in your ability to play footsie, try to zone Bang's 5A/5B as much as possible. If pre-empted, Hakumen can beat those moves, but if the Bang player gets the distance just right, the trade-off is severely in Bang's favor. However, if that's the case, Hakumen can punish by backdash into gurren cancel, which will catch 5A/5B's recovery frames into a decent punish.

[entnervt]

Question: I played only one Bang until now. If the Bang-player jumpcancelled a blocked combo into j.4B to cross me, I just jumped backwards with him and did j.B. Sometimes, when I timed it right, I was able to combo 5C>whatever him after landing. Was it just luck or is j.B under this circumstances a useful option? The Bang player wasn`t that experienced, tbh. And I nearly always could land a hit with the j.B.

[qwerty]

The 5C>6B/2C mix-up option for bang can be option selected with regular block on 5C into yukikaze/IB low. There is a timing on the input of yukikaze (2 half circles for the option select) where if 6B comes out, yukikaze will come out, and if 2C comes out, you will simply IB it.

:O

[ryokoalways]

If you are comboing into 5C after Counter jB, I'm pretty sure you are descending on hit, in which case the Bang's j4B is way too slow. Generally jumping with Bang isn't a good idea because jA/jC (or any non-cross-ups for that matter) will lock you down (or counter you if you mash out jB). If you really want just dp him in the face, or throw him in-between moves (both options are usable vs cross-up as well).

[Dacidbro]

Ryo, there is a very big problem in that 5C is jump cancellable. Just make sure if you use that option select you keep enough presence of mind to register if he does jump instead. Also, you may very quickly be crossed up on that jump cancel, or, if he knows you are trying to option select it another fun gimmick is 5C > Bumper. I've used that on Spark, and it is wonderful even when they are not trying to OS yukikaze.

But that's pretty cool, good trick.

[ryokoalways]

Thanks for the correction. I will keep that in mind.

[Dodi]

Seems like doing any jump attack then hotaru on reaction when you feel you've hit one of bang's D moves always gives a fatal counter and the hotaru will always hit, even if Bang does that crossup D move lol.