[CS1] Bang vs Carl

[Dacidbro]

Gonna kick these off the ground, no time to keep waiting

Will update to look more professional later, when there's more info to throw around and I have time to waste with the cosmetics.

This is an annoying matchup. You have to be INCREDIBLY careful about Carl's reset game, cause, of course, your defense is crap overall.

Part A

How to get out of pressure?

SAVE YOUR METER FOR CA

I can't stress it enough, don't use your meter for anything else (exception for finishing off).

If you can at all help it, don't get sandwiched between Carl/Nirvana, but if you do, don't get impatient. If you try to jump out, you will FOR SURE get low hit. Stay low-block, reaction block the overhead charge up even if it doesn't look like it's going to hit, and if you see Nirvana wind up her long overhead...

Block low, then high. Carl is going to 3C you before it hits 90% of the time. A smart Carl will start interchanging what hits first though, so I don't really know what to say. If you have time to gold burst, do it.

Another note, don't always quick roll. I had been doing that for a while, and it took me a long time to realize I was deliberately putting myself into multiple 50-50's. Often it's best to wait a moment on the ground, see what Carl is doing, then rolling/downteching/neutral teching appropriately. In the above scenario, if you are on the ground and see Carl set that up, if you're close to Carl or nirvana, roll to whichever one you're close to (but only if you'll go past)

NEW REVELATION (Concerning Carl's aerial crossup)

If Carl is blockstringing you, and then suddenly AID's, 5D with A teleport will beat out any crossup/intentionally not quite crossup he does unless he specifically tries to punish it. This adds another level of the mixup guessing game, and an important one. If he can try the crossup for free every time, he has a level of safety that's just really unhealthy for bang. This provides a potential out of pressure free every time he wants that crossup.

After he's afraid of the above, you may get out of pressure for free sometimes. Two thumbs up!

Zong1's input;

Some things to think about with resets:

- If you ever block 5B, and you sense a slight delay, get ready to be crossed up.

Carl's 5B is jump cancellable on block, so IAD > Allecan/ Teleport resets are coming.

-Dacid is right about blocking low, then high for slide/2]D[ reset. It is incredibly hard to time a true unblockable, so you'll usually have time to block the low and the high. Don't give up hope in that situation, because you think something is 100% unblockable. It usually won't be.

-Try to never get hit with either of these long pokes:

.CH 6]D[ - the hit stun is like a year. Enough for almost any free combo/set up I want.

.CH 5C - enough for Teleport > IAD > punch loop set ups.

- 3C (slide) is not necessarily the end of a string. Carl can cancel it into Cantible (623C) mini launcher for a free air combo. A lot of people try to counter/just stop blocking after 3C for some reason, but it's not smart to do so. If you don't have an escape plan or a guaranteed counter for 3C, then just continue to block for an extra second to make sure.

- With Allegretto > Clap loop in the corner, watch very carefully where you're going when you tech. Either tech high and get the hell out of there, or tech very low/not at all until you hit the ground. Basically, if you get hit with a stray clap after you tech, you're going to eat another 2/3k.

If I think of more stuff to watch out for, I'll post them.

The main thing is be patient. Carl has a lot to gain when his opponent starts getting frustrated.

EDIT- And Carl can do damage on his own now. So kill-the-doll shenanigans, aren't always a good strat. Not that a lot of Bang players really try that kind of stuff.

Unlike *CoughtagerCough* players. :P

Thanks

Part B

Your Offense

Carl's defense is pretty weak overall. 2A is your best friend for meaty wakeup, don't be afraid to use nails for pressure, and mix that small child up with the most difficult to escape blockstring high and lows.. Always take true oki. Try to capitalize on 2A damage, it can be tempting to just throw away 2A hits, but Carl's health is so low he will start to feel it very quickly, and it will make him less effective against your overheads and 623C's, which will tear him to shreds. Just don't let up, but make sure you're intelligent. If he has meter, watch for gear, and unless he had 100 % meter, on block with barrier it's a free daifunka if Nirvana isn't there to screw it all up.

Another interesting thing to note, if you are between him and Nirvana, if you call out his Vivace, as long as you didn't throw any move out, you can easily reaction punish it.

EX; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS5B1ZKuA4o&feature=related#t=44s

Although that was a BVivace (Not an A, which would be shorter but faster), that Carl used it directly after IBing 2C, meaning he had a TON of time, and still was stuck in it. Vivace isn't as good as it seems.

Part C

Approach/Approach Denial

The most important aspect of spacing against Carl is not falling into Nirvana traps and not getting fatal jB'd. Either one will lead to 3k+ damage, and Nirvana traps will usually lead to reset attempt too, so be really careful.

Notable moves;

jB

-Fatal counters

-3.2k non corner

Summary; If the carl you're playing likes this move, figure out a way to punish it, or at the very least not get fatal'd by it. Empty jumps are smart, since even if you get non-CH hit, most Carl's wont follow it up: If you jump cancel the jB on the fatal counter, you miss your 3.2k.

]8[D

-Completely air unblockable, no amount of barrier will save you

-Popular reset

Summary; If carl is hitting you with this a lot, your air approach/air teching is too predictable. In both regards, relax, and try to stay away from nirvana. Don't always air tech when available, eating a highly prorated ]8[D is much better than getting trapped into a fresh one+combo.

]2[D

-Very, very slow overhead

-Powerful, prorates 104% mid combo

-Will most commonly be led by a Carl low, so block LOW FIRST, and if you have the space, backdash, as the whole setup is quite slow.

Summary; Carl gets 4.5k if this move hits you as the first or second hit, so if you have a free burst and think you could win the round, either A: Use it before carl hits you for a free combo and pressure, as Carl will just about always try to attack you, and if he doesn't you're +4 on block anyway, or B: use it when Carl hits you to not lose half your life bar and get back to even. The common ender of this move puts you back to even, so at least there's that if you get hit and dont want to/cant burst.

under construction

[huey253]

avoid clap loop...OH WAIT this is CS. match up is still ass though, i personally think it might be in Carl's favor 5.5 4.5. but man just watch out for them resets..

[Dacidbro]

Definitely not Carl's favor. It's either even or slightly Bang, but I think it's even. I'll get into the methodology of watching the resets in a bit. I've learned a good deal about them from my matches with Zong1

[ZONG_one]

Some things to think about with resets: - If you ever block 5B, and you sense a slight delay, get ready to be crossed up. Carl's 5B is jump cancellable on block, so IAD > Allecan/ Teleport resets are coming. -Dacid is right about blocking low, then high for slide/2]D[ reset. It is incredibly hard to time a true unblockable, so you'll usually have time to block the low and the high. Don't give up hope in that situation, because you think something is 100% unblockable. It usually won't be. -Try to never get hit with either of these long pokes: .CH 6]D[ - the hit stun is like a year. Enough for almost any free combo/set up I want. .CH 5C - enough for Teleport > IAD > punch loop set ups. - 3C (slide) is not necessarily the end of a string. Carl can cancel it into Cantible (623C) mini launcher for a free air combo. A lot of people try to counter/just stop blocking after 3C for some reason, but it's not smart to do so. If you don't have an escape plan or a guaranteed counter for 3C, then just continue to block for an extra second to make sure. - With Allegretto > Clap loop in the corner, watch very carefully where you're going when you tech. Either tech high and get the hell out of there, or tech very low/not at all until you hit the ground. Basically, if you get hit with a stray clap after you tech, you're going to eat another 2/3k. If I think of more stuff to watch out for, I'll post them. The main thing is be patient. Carl has a lot to gain when his opponent starts getting frustrated. EDIT- And Carl can do damage on his own now. So kill-the-doll shenanigans, aren't always a good strat. Not that a lot of Bang players really try that kind of stuff. Unlike *CoughtagerCough* players. :P

[Dacidbro]

Thanks a lot Zong. I'll edit it into the main post a bit later.

[Dacidbro]

Large update, getting better at this matchup.

[Ken-oh]

No more info on this matchup? Its a real struggle for me. Carl seems to have some really good normals and I have a problem getting in on him safely. I don't really know what I'm missing in my game but Carl seems a real struggle to pin down. Any more just general advice?

[rei-Scarred]

fun fact: throw cnail before kick doesn't work on Carl. My mind has been blown.

Also it doesn't work on Bang either. Yeah I just had my "wtf why?" moment for the day thanks bb

[Dacidbro]

Pinning down Carl is a matter of understanding his mobility problems. He has Nirvana to limit yours, so his mobility can be horrid without it being obvious at first glance; but it is. Use Dnails to lock him in one spot, but only after you've confirmed that Nirvana won't get in the way AND he has no way to dodge them. Not wasting nails is very critical.

Also, A nail dash is hugely helpful for regrounding yourself and to be tricky in your movement. Being unpredictable in movement and momentum is very useful, as Carl can't control nearly as much space as he wants you to believe. In any case where you can poison nail dash (Which is, air dash immediately cancelled by a poison nail; causes you to land much much faster and leads your fall with the nail) and in any way put Carl in blockstun, you should take it, because it completely deactivates Nirvana, causing, obviously, nirvana to not be able to hit you, and wasting his doll meter. Uses only one nail, extremely useful in this matchup.

Mostly though, just be extremely patient, the more you force Carl to try to control space, the more meter he doesn't have anymore.

If Carl is playing too patient, or even if he isn't, try to get a connected A and C bumper out. The mobility and mixup it grants you is extremely helpful, and he has extreme difficulty hitting you for putting them out if he's full screen.

When you're stuck in the sandwich, block. Block well. Hold low block, reaction block his overheads. If you get hit, he's almost surely going to reset you; same deal, reaction block low, but if you notice any of his significant reset notifiers (2D, 3D, 6C) try to react accordingly.

Good luck, ask any other questions you might have.

[Seiki]

this is pretty scrubby for me to ask but...when I face carl (along with Ragna and Tao) they like to jump a lot and I am stupid and chase them around in the air and waste nails. Carl's normals in the air seem to beat out mine and his small hitbox makes it harder for me to pinpoint my attacks...what do i do against an airborne carl? More specifically, mobility wise...