LunaKage Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 The matchup has changed, but it's the same basic deal: Chase Arakune and hope to Jesus Kick that you somehow beat his j.B. Except now Noel is better at it, it's probably still Noel's worst matchup but now she actually has tools to deal with it. I can't say I know everything about it however since SKYE IS ALWAYS DODGING CASUALS.
InspectorOda Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) Exactly, there are only subtle differences but the basic methods of dealing with each situation are fundamentally the same. It's not like she gained x move which beats all of Ara's moves at y range and he now has to adapt by using z move to counter it. It just takes a bit more effort on Ara's part to get the curse and maintain it, while it takes less effort for Noel to kill Ara before he gets the opportunity to. @LordSpectreX If you've already locked them down, then there's no need for any 3A presses whatsoever. Furthermore, you only need a maximum of one 3A, which you can easily make counter assault proof with a simple 4B bug while still retaining the ACD bugs for mixup. After that, the standard jC/fakeout setups should automatically catch Noel's attempts to counter assault out of pressure. Edit: Might as well get some basic examples up to give you an idea. 3A > 4B bug > 6A[C] > jC > C bug > j2C]A[]D[ > A bug > 2C > D bug > etc If she CAs this at the 3A, she'll get locked down by the 4B bug and you can still use this mixup after confirming it. If she CAs at the 6A, the C and A bug will lock her down automatically as jC whiffs, giving you plenty of time to continue pressure. If she CAs the jC, it's already too late for her to escape. 3A > 214C > A bug > C bug > ]4AD[ > 4A bug > 4D bug > etc Standard easy mode setup here, but same concept as if she CAs at the 6A on the previous setup listed above. If she just got cursed and you're in an oki position, you can just forget all this and use a standard 214 > ]5B[ or 5D bug > 6C bug > 4A bug > jC to give you plenty of time to react to her CA if she manages to block it. This isn't even considering resets too. There are plenty of ways around her CA. Now Tao's in CS, that was truly stupid to lockdown. @_@ Edited June 29, 2011 by InspectorOda
LunaKage Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Exactly, there are only subtle differences but the basic methods of dealing with each situation are fundamentally the same. It's not like she gained x move which beats all of Ara's moves at y range and he now has to adapt by using z move to counter it. It just takes a bit more effort on Ara's part to get the curse and maintain it, while it takes less effort for Noel to kill Ara before he gets the opportunity to. @LordSpectreX If you've already locked them down, then there's no need for any 3A presses whatsoever. Furthermore, you only need a maximum of one 3A, which you can easily make counter assault proof with a simple 4B bug while still retaining the ACD bugs for mixup. After that, the standard jC/fakeout setups should automatically catch Noel's attempts to counter assault out of pressure. This man is my hero, and it takes a lot for me to say that about an Arakune player. I don't really know the Lingo on Ara's end so it makes it a little harder for me to explain things :C
Skye Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 SKYE IS ALWAYS DODGING CASUALS. Complain at my ride who ran off to get some chocolate booty.
Dorian Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Not to mention that Arakune tools have changed as well. They have? If by tools changing you're implying Arakune got immensely worse somehow then I beg to differ.
Dorian Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 He meant mainly offensive options and tools. Oh I know stuff got added/tweaked, it just sounded like he was implying Ara got nerfed hard or the like. Ara got much more offensive but less defensive, no more free jump outs or backdashes, and now footsies are needed more than ever.
LordSpectreX Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) They have? If by tools changing you're implying Arakune got immensely worse somehow then I beg to differ. Sorry, I get it's a difficult big word that is hard to understand. Changed. Let me help you. Changed is when something is different somehow. Bell Bug goes further. Cloud doesn't last as long. J.D has different spawn locations. Curse does less damage. D Bug goes down faster. His backdash is slower. His forward-dash is faster etc. I kid. You're alright. Edit: But seriously, Arakune is worse now. But this isn't the place to discuss it. Edited June 30, 2011 by LordSpectreX
Dorian Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 Sorry, I get it's a difficult big word that is hard to understand. Changed. Let me help you. Changed is when something is different somehow. Bell Bug goes further. Cloud doesn't last as long. J.D has different spawn locations. Curse does less damage. D Bug goes down faster. His backdash is slower. His forward-dash is faster etc. I kid. You're alright. Edit: But seriously, Arakune is worse now. But this isn't the place to discuss it. How cute, trying to act smart and yet giving a very basic reply. I didn't even question a word, I questioned your silly sentence since it was so vague it bordered pointless. Saying he's worse is easy, and pointing out a small cs1-cs2 changes list isn't helping your argument but rather making it seem like you know very little outside what can be copy/pasted from other threads. He also got buffed, and gained new tools. His A moves going up a level allowed them to be gatlinged, giving him better pressure and mixup. Not only that, but he can hitconfirm a low attack like 2a, into 5a, into 6b, into f of g. Btw, f of g is his distortion that is homing, hits low, and puts the opponent into full curse. There's a reason people put him as S tier when the game came out, these two buffs alone were HUGE. Not only did it open up reset and tech trap options, but you had to respect arakune more. Also nerfs such as his backdash teleport and jump were necessary, they were pretty OP. Arakune got out of tager gadget finger for free, could get out of the corner easily, and could jump out and chicken block all day. Now Arakune actually has to be SMART, rather than turtle all day. The reason he's gone down in tiers is similar to Tager, or lambda, etc. It's because on paper he could do it all, but in practice you have to be VERY solid and cannot afford to mess up as much as the rest of the cast. That's why characters like Makoto or Jin or Hazama are top tier, it's because they have solid gameplay and can afford to be sloppier in general. Makoto can confirm into huge damage easily, has strong pressure, tools, and a DP for getting out of pressure. If an Arakune could block perfectly 100% of the time it would be a completely different basing in how 'bad' he is. A makoto is not forced to block 100% of the time, she has more options, and thus she's stronger. You haven't change since gamefaqs, and unless you do you're always going to be the "Wannabe DividedXZero". Those aren't even my own words, you got a rep Spectre, might want to tone it down. I kid, you're alright.
LordSpectreX Posted June 30, 2011 Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) Long post. I won't lie to you, I didn't read most it, just some of the beginning and the end. Maybe you don't understand my post either. Let me repeat it for you. "This isn't the place to discuss it." I love how you just want to believe that when I said his tools have changed, they had gotten worse. I never said that his tools changing makes him a worse character. The point about the tools changing was a point meaning that the Noel matchup may have to play in different ways. For example, in CS1, you can get away with quite a bit of zoning. However, now that the clouds are faster but don't last as long, they'd be better for cover while attacking. Likewise, the new Bell Bug position may encourage keeping Noel fullscreen so you can move in safely, instead of using it as a defensive tool. And how exactly have I not changed since Gamefaqs? All I basically do on this forum is ask general positions. Better than trying to argue with people over stuff they didn't say. I rarely then give my own opinion outside my experiences with a matchup or giving some advice. "Wannabe DividedXZero". Well, let's see at EVO, shall we? Like I care about what the Gamefaqs community thinks about me anyway. Now, are you actually going to make a post in this thread about the Noel matchup or are you going to continue bugging me over the semantics about Arakune being worse or not? Cause if it's the latter, PM me, or just don't bother at all, cause I won't be reading it. Edit: Sorry, Skye, didn't see your post before I started writing. Edited June 30, 2011 by LordSpectreX
Robokune Posted July 27, 2011 Posted July 27, 2011 So yea I came here to see how Arakune was looking against Noel in the CS2 days. Enough of this ^, back to buisness.
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