Nov Ganon Posted March 20, 2010 Posted March 20, 2010 ok can someone help me with this match-up. seriously this guys is like a wild beast on the loose any advice is welcomed. 5B stops alot of my moves, baiting ID is easy but most high level ragnas will IB ID then im eating and nice combo. also what moves are good to instant block and DP? one more question is it safe to 2A while he overheads?(i think 6B) bcuz if he catches you with that another fat 3k-4K combo in your face smh
ShoryuSwordsman Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 i'm not too keen on this matchup myself, i think first part of hell's fang should be the same, so instant block then 5/2a>combo for punish. i know for a fact u can stop his overhead with damn near anything as long as u know its coming. quite sure 5c>6c>combo should be fine, not sure about 2c. i wouldnt really rely too heavily on 2a tho, seeing as ragna's 6b has more range, so ur likely to eat it if u try to stuff w/ 2a unless he's right up in ur face. other than that, its much of a guessing game with him for me as well, i do okay against ragna w/ jin, tho still have many issues with him, so i would also appreciate the help
Yuushiro Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 I think reflexively you can only do 2A in case of the overhead. you really need a superhuman reflex or yomi to do 5C. and what if it's not an overhead..., 5C will lose to 5B or ragna's 2A/5A if the range is too close. make them afraid of your dragon punch too, so do that from time to time if you see your enemy is too aggressive to keep them honest. don't DP if they start baiting it though. use 5D, 2D, DP B/D if they air dash at you. use DP A whenever they jump away or jump at you during block strings. at close distance if they do a FA Block string ender like dead spike and they thought they are safe you can do dragon punch if they are jumping at you or dashing at you. just be unpredictable too with your block string so it's harder for them to IB. and most people will do ID only on long recovery move like 5C or 6C. so plan accordingly.
Yuushiro Posted March 21, 2010 Posted March 21, 2010 btw, if they are going to jump at you 2C works really well too. but you have to time it really right. and it does beat ragna's JC because jin is ducking a little bit and it's more comboable than DP A or DP D. you can do 2C-6C air combo, while if you do DP A you can only follow up with EX ice ride
Yuushiro Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 if you said you have time for 623B why not do 623C. it's more comboable after ward and you might get oki instead of just send them flying across the screen with 623B.
Moy_X7 Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 Hell's fang if you instant block the first part you can 623B before the follow up. but you gotta be on your feet... beyond that I'm not sure. the only other thing I know is that BELIAL EDGE>ICE CAR (in terms of combos), and that if he touches you you're screwed. His damage is also higher than yours (and your's is less now) so you can no longer destroy him in like 3 combos. No one in their right mind would use the Hell's Fang follow-up without 50 Heat and even that is a rare sight. What the hell does "BELIAL EDGE>ICE CAR (in terms of combos)" even mean? Giving advice without having actual match-up experience is not a smart thing to so I won't even talk like I know what I'm talking about. Just know that 6B will most likely come after his 2A or 2B, try to IB Hell's Fang and bait a possible DP afterwards.
smooshman Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 No one in their right mind would use the Hell's Fang follow-up without 50 Heat and even that is a rare sight. What the hell does "BELIAL EDGE>ICE CAR (in terms of combos)" even mean? Giving advice without having actual match-up experience is not a smart thing to so I won't even talk like I know what I'm talking about. Just know that 6B will most likely come after his 2A or 2B, try to IB Hell's Fang and bait a possible DP afterwards. shit sorry, was barely paying attention. I'll get rid of them in a second. but what I meant is that Belial edge as a combo ender has more advantages than Ice car. not really something to consider. but I also meant that you can beat out the follow up, it doesn't have to happen.
Moy_X7 Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 shit sorry, was barely paying attention. I'll get rid of them in a second. but what I meant is that Belial edge as a combo ender has more advantages than Ice car. not really something to consider. but I also meant that you can beat out the follow up, it doesn't have to happen. I'm not asking you to remove anything, just to think a bit before posting. Besides, how does knowing that Belial Edge is a better combo ender (Belial Edge is more of a combo filler than an ender as most people use 5D > 22C/Hell's Fang as their combo enders) than Ice Car help with this match up? How does knowing that "if he touches you, you're dead" help? If the Ragna does decide to go for the follow up then just IB that and punish it or get ready for an RC if he has 50 Heat.
smooshman Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 I'm not asking you to remove anything, just to think a bit before posting. Besides, how does knowing that Belial Edge is a better combo ender (Belial Edge is more of a combo filler than an ender as most people use 5D > 22C/Hell's Fang as their combo enders) than Ice Car help with this match up? How does knowing that "if he touches you, you're dead" help? If the Ragna does decide to go for the follow up then just IB that and punish it or get ready for an RC if he has 50 Heat. sorry for the hyperbole:vbang: but to simplify Ragna's greatest advantage is his damage and over all offensensive game. Just play it safe. that's all I can think of.
Nov Ganon Posted March 22, 2010 Author Posted March 22, 2010 Just know that 6B will most likely come after his 2A or 2B, try to IB Hell's Fang and bait a possible DP afterwards. the kind of advice i was looing for sir o i have another question. i have a situation, ok i do jB and the ragna is in the air also and he IB and ID in the air is there anyway i can block it? would a JC block (jumpcancel) work? like when see a burst coming?
Yuushiro Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 ID is air unblockable so dont forget to do barrier and yea you can jump cancel and then barrier block
BANGER Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 Ragna j.623C (aerial ID) isn't air unblockable though right. I think I tried doing that a long time ago. For 6B overhead, you can sneak a 3C in there into a full combo. Did it by accident once trying to DP, I'd say it works well since 3C startup is fast. Recovery sucks, but obviously you only do it when he really does 6B and you see it coming. If you block a 6B, expect a 3C > 5D next. After his 5D DC are one of those 50/50 moments. Do whatever you think is right depending on what kind of player he is. So far, I think this is a defensive matchup for Jin (seemingly like the rest). Utilize your jC's defensively/play good footsies, be on a look out for counter opportunities, and catch them off guard with 2Ds or do j.236D when they try to reset you with 6A. To me, I think Jin's worst matchups are those with fast moves (long range is a plus, i.e. Litchi) ala Tao and Tsubaki. But I'm no pro. I honestly think I'd fair better against a Ragna with my Jin than I would against a Tao or Tsubaki. Then again maybe it's because I play with a friend, who's a Ragna main, a ton.
Nov Ganon Posted March 22, 2010 Author Posted March 22, 2010 ID is air unblockable so dont forget to do barrier and yea you can jump cancel and then barrier block Thanks im Def work on that later today lol
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted March 22, 2010 Posted March 22, 2010 Thanks im Def work on that later today lol wait wait you were that jin player from when i was getting mah winstreak on right? Try not to be so repetitive and use j236D to beat out 6A then again i dont go for 6A resets that often or use GH as a finisher either way n_n
Nov Ganon Posted March 24, 2010 Author Posted March 24, 2010 wait wait you were that jin player from when i was getting mah winstreak on right? Try not to be so repetitive and use j236D to beat out 6A then again i dont go for 6A resets that often or use GH as a finisher either way n_n yes yes that was me lolol u have to give me some pointers man im not jumping ship on the jin ship just yet lol btwn your ragna was a pain
-Ladon- Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 Ragna j.623C (aerial ID) isn't air unblockable though right. I think I tried doing that a long time ago.. loses Air unblockable properties when performed in the air, yes
Nov Ganon Posted March 24, 2010 Author Posted March 24, 2010 loses Air unblockable properties when performed in the air, yes so if im already in the air with him i can just JC (jump cancel) and block no barrier?
Yuushiro Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 oh yea I forgot about that..., but just to be safe I always use the barrier...
Yuushiro Posted May 29, 2010 Posted May 29, 2010 let me translate most of japanese wiki stuff...about this matchup... basic: ragna's strongest point is mid-range, so you want to stay faraway or really close with jin... bait his DP at all times, and see when the specific player like to throw the DP. don't keep him in the mid-range where he can do dash->5B. his best poke.... note: jin 5B will beat ragna 5B but jin's 5B has much less range... wait and see on how they react when you approach them whether from the air or from the ground... long-distance: try throwing safe-fireball, 2D and j.C poke is really good, try to get j.C counter hit mostly if the ragna is jump-happy. jin's j.C has more range than ragna's j.C, be careful because j.C and fireball has some landing recovery too, so make sure you'll be safe or special cancel it before you land. you can throw 5D once in a while too , but be careful because of the long startup and recovery 5D has now, that's why only use it on long-distance condition. mid range: if you think they gonna do dash-in 5B, just stand there and do 5C and it will be a CH from 5C and you can do a good combo out of it. you can also do 3C and you'll lay low avoiding the 5B but it's riskier... but if they block it you can cancel to B uppercut if you think they gonna jump, or A/B fireball. short range: again, always bait for his IB>DP.... don't throw a lot of non-CH or non-comboable 5C-6C because even on normal block he can DP out of it. 5C>2C>6C for jin is a bit better, but have the same problem from 2C>6C... so be careful... be careful of his high/low mixup... ragna's crossup is kind of suck so you don't have to worry much about that. on short range be careful of his 6B. on medium range he can do either GH or 2D..... which is tricky...., you can counter his GH with 5B or 5C or some other stuff though, but 2D is harder if you don't instant block before hand. others: ragna is top tier in this game and pretty dangerous overall... he will get a pretty good oki after his 22C....., be wary of 6B or sweep after his 22C hits you. dash->5C of jin is really good against him, but use it on long-mid range.. because ragna 5B almost has the same range as jin 5C be wary of his wakeup DP too, and sometimes he will do wakeup throw if you are really close, so the key is too bait his DP only and don't be too close when he wakes up, that's why actually try to get a knockdown with 3C instead of ice car, or just keep him at reset/frozen if possible.... ragna corner pressure is too good..., and his combo is long too, so dont hesitate to use CA, it's worth the meter, or maybe just EX ice car away from the corner. jA, fubuki, and jump throw is a good anti air to use against him... watch out for his 6A whenever you jump at him..., j.2C will beat that 6A if done correctly, but still need to be careful. that's why if you think you gonna be hit by 6A, do j2C instead of jB be careful of throw or DP after he ends his mixup with 214A/hell's fang
Yuushiro Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 one more thing, jin 6B will beat death spike or dead spike whatever ragna's 214D is if done almost at the same time so if you IB something and you know they gonna follow up with 214D do 6B and it'll be a CH and big combo from there
trini1212 Posted June 15, 2010 Posted June 15, 2010 one more thing, jin 6B will beat death spike or dead spike whatever ragna's 214D is if done almost at the same time so if you IB something and you know they gonna follow up with 214D do 6B and it'll be a CH and big combo from there this works real good , don't even think u need to ib last attack before death spike just leap right over it for a counter combo..p.s did it yesterday
Yuushiro Posted June 15, 2010 Posted June 15, 2010 yup, just confirmed it too... you can do it for ragna's 6C too... when ragna try to do that low attack, 6B will go over that..... won a match against hsien chang because of that
Yuushiro Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 be careful of the distance though, if they are too far away 6B wont hit so pay attn of the distance of the dead spike too
Nov Ganon Posted July 23, 2010 Author Posted July 23, 2010 hey what are some good moves to IB n punish against ragna?
Yuushiro Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 depends... pretty much anything that will have slow recovery... but good players will also bait it so, it's hard to say
Recommended Posts