Slayer AC strats

[Esayah]

Ok new questions. I got to play against Ken I's pot the other day and I was doing fairly well. Well, the first time I played against him he was hella jump happy and I just anti-aired him the whole time into short KD combos. Unfortunately, I dropped a few of these and it cost me the game. I was also using dandy K against his dash/fist-crush thing, since it's invincible and breaks the super-armor into a free aircombo. The second time I got to play against him it was different. He played more defensively and relied on pokes, airthrow, tick throws to slowly corner me. Once I'm in the corner...it's really hard to get out without taking 50% or more from making just one tiny mistake. I've also been watching japanese videos, and it seems the Slayers that do better against pot are the ones that constantly dodge and barrage him. Any comments as far as pokes, what moves are safe, and what to watch out for (especially what moves I can punish) against pot?

[eien_tsubasa XD]

I TRY to avoid using dandy too much since it is pretty easy to punish but it does have some good uses. Dand S vs an air born opponent nets good combos and if you can condition them to thinking you'll delay the it's late, you can get a nice CH and that shit HURTS. Don't use it too much though. Generally I only use dandy if I expect apoke, such as at the start of the round. Immediately do P dandy, if they swing, free pile bunker. If they don't, you're generally safe at that distance if you just let it recover.

I also use dandy to give the illusion of doing something unsafe. PB or Crosswise to make them go for a punish and immediately RC into 5H or j.H in crosswises case. It either gets a CH or they block it and you can get a mixup. Use sparingly.

hmmm. i never thought of using dandy S on airborn opponents. i usuaally use it to close in on the opponent, but this way is far more effective.

This is random but Slayer's dandy step K beats out Dead on Time. I was doing dandy step and a guy activated DOT as I started dandy K and it beat it out. We were both like O_O

Ahh.....stupid slayer moments.

weird...but random at the same time...

[Villainous]

Both suck and you could do something better in most situations. But if you must...it depends on the character you're fighting. If it's someone like HOS who has shorter ranged pokes, dandy P is good enough for the job. I mainly use dandy to force a whiff and get a free punish, so basically use P if you think they'll use a short range poke and K if you think they'll do a wide one. If you wanna do dandy FRC 2H fakes, P dandy is the way to go. For feinting into throw, I'd imagine up close, P dandy is faster since it recovers and gives them less time to react. K dandy slides you forward more though so you could use it at range for a throw setup. But generally most dandy step stuff is pretty low level. I would avoid using it and opt for solid poking and defense into knockdowns and rush/mix-ups. I guess in certain matches it has it's place but it's generally not that great of a move and good players can punish it almost 100% of the time. BBU another slayer if they try to dandy step you. It's free.

[rtl42]

most characters just have to hit 2D on reaction and you'll lose, so yeah it's a bit poopy. it's mostly an ace up your sleeve that you use to punish a predictable (and unsafe) pressure string. like take Baiken, if she runs up to you and does 2K-c.S-2D xx tatami and doesn't FRC, you can D-step xx PB out of the tatami without even IBing the 2D. that sort of thing.

[Wirya]

Actually, d-steps can be quite scary if you can utilize it well. Think of them more as movements/maneuvers. Combine it with Slayer's dash (FDC and BDC). And use the FRCs. When Slayer moves around like a freak, he's quite scary.

[Zaido]

some people can punish it, other people are afraid to punishit, it really depends on how ur using it, most players dotn recommmend it, some players would say be tricky, blah blah... i would just say this, pretend ur opponent is super good, and can punish any shit you do, so you learn to just play it safe. then on the other hand if the opponent is some random new player, then i would still say play it safe? and just try not to build a habit... cause i played this one guy at school in Slash, and man, he dandy like dandy into itself, and all i did punish till i win :V... rofl... well overall, use Dandy to an extent to mind fuck people

[Ross]

Dandy should be mostly avoided at lower levels and then slowly incorporated into your game as you learn what its for. It's not the be all and end all of moves. It's useful for specific things, and for those things use it, and don't let it get predictable because everyone can retaliate on a Dandy if they expect it.

[Esayah]

It all depends on how scared your opponent is. If your opponent is scared, you can start using your d-step throw / bite mixups. If your opponent is well-seasoned and not scared, he'll probably punish you for d-stepping too much. If your opponent isn't so good, he'll probably eat d-step mixups. Honestly though, d-step should be avoided if possible. Even as an oki tool, it becomes quite predictable. However, using it in moderation is absolutely fine, whether it's to test the waters with dandy S, punish with pilebunker, or catch some airborne-happy folks with dandy K.

[Villainous]

Ok how the hell does Slayer beat May? Like here are my problems. May's air game. J.H beats out almost everything Slayer can do unless she's at the perfect position for 2S. j.H also beats out all of Slayer's air to air so there are very few options against it. Her j.2H is also impossible to AA it seems if she's directly overhead. How do you handle dolphins as well? Will any moves straight up beat the horizontal ones? And what's an answer for her whiffed short vertical dolphin into command grab? If I just block, it doesn't touch me, but if I try to poke it my hit box extends and I get hit. I can just jump away but this doesn't put me anywhere. Also, her jump is ridiculous. It's almost impossible to pressure her for long because she can jump so high and fast that using 2S and 6H to try too catch jumpers when pressuring usually just whiffs against her. I'm seriously at a loss for how to fight this bitch if she just dolphins and jumps around mashing heavy.

[Zaido]

you dont really fight her in the air... from what i remember, plus, i remember my 5P beating horizontal dolphin?? i dont remember... i know 6P obviously can beat it.. but its slow as fug... maybe 2S? i dont remember.. try 5P... overall, she jumps alot she does her pressure string blah blah if the may is jumpy, i guess you just have to keep a good eye out and 2S it accordingly? i personally have problem fighting may... so i am not the best person to give advice... maybe purrin can come in here and give some idea how may works :V... last time when i remember fighitng may was i just BBU her in the middle of her attack string as she was going for dash 5k :V... rofl...

[Yonasu]

Against May's j.HS you need to pick her out of the air with 2S whenever possible so that she either a, starts to position herself better with the j.HS which means she will need to position herself better = takes more time to get aggressive = you get more time to predict her and punish her for it. Or b, she will use j.HS less in fear of 2S. Against the short dolphins to command grab I belive 5P will CH her out of the dolphin. IIRC 5P also trades with the other horisontal dolphins so it might not be that good against those. Predict one dolphin with a 6P and she will have like 20% health left though so it is a good thing to do once in a while. And if shes not to close she will have a hard time doing something scary to punish a whiffed 6P. I don't have all that much matchup experience against May so some of these things might have better solutions, but these are things I feel are important to keep in mind when fighting her. Also it can be a good strategy in general to catch jumpers with a j.K into aircombo. j.K is an amazing air-to-air and if you do a slight pause when you would have used 2S or 6HS you can get used to react to their attempted escape and punish them for it. Since you can doublejump and still get a good combo of a j.K this gives you far more reach then a 6HS. Airgrab is also a nice option if you believe they will only defend while in the air.

[Boss]

How to deal with May

this is a battle slayer needs to fight on the ground. j.HS rapes slayer in the air so air battle is out of the picture. i say the best way to fight may is by takin a very cautious and defensive approach.....at first. may's r mainly jumpin around swingin the anchor, throwin out dolphins, and being annoyin. ur instinct will probably b "get back here bitch!!" so u go after her and catch a mean j.HS and lose lots of health. make her come 2 u, if may is chasin u then the battle is greatly in your favor IMO.

- counter her attempts 2 attack u from the air with 6p and 2S.

- counter ground attacks with 6p.

- block the hoop dolphins while payin close attention 2 what may is doin and prepare 2 block her follow up and or counter it with either 6p or 2S. depends on what may does.

- be very cautious of her command grab. that's the only advice i can give on it because she's so fast and it seems pretty easy for her 2 just run up and snatch u up when u least expect it:psyduck:

MOVES U SHOULD USE

6p - this move is absolutely great in this match-up. it beats horizontal dolphins ALWAYS, j.HS, 6p, 5k, 2S, and vertical dolphins with correct timing. try 6p'n may everytime u see her use a dolphin. if it hits mid screen u can try 2 carry her 2 the corner with 5k + mappas. if it hits near the corner, 5k + mappa then combo her for big damage.

2S - i pretty much use this move as soon as i see may jump. it will work as an AA against j.HS and j.2HS as well as all her air normals. the key 2 AA may with 2S is pretty much timing. u have 2 time it where it's like may is fallin on a spike if u get what i'm sayin. NEVER try 2 2S may when she's low 2 the ground because u WILL get countered and feel her wrath. the 2S only works if she's fairly high above u. when she's low 2 the ground use 6p.

MEATY 2D - this isn't essential to winnin this matchup but it's very useful. very meaty 2D can beat wake-up vertical dolphins. i only say can because i'm not 100% sure if it always works but i know it does for the most part. since may has crappy D when it comes 2 gettin out of pressure/mix-ups, USE MEATY 2D!!! from what i know it's really nothin she can do about it other than get hit or block.

6HS - this move as slow as it is, is freakin awesome. not only does it have hella priority but it can b used to move in and to catch may in her air dashes. i also think that it clashes with dolphins if it connects within the last few active frames.

J.HS AT THE PEAK OF UR JUMP - i do this a lot actually and it works:thumbu: after u land a knockdown, jump in and do a j.HS at the peak of ur jump and if may does a vertical dolphin it will either clash or give u a counter hit for a free combo. if it clashes, do a j.k after, land doin a c.S, and proceed 2 combo.

MOVES THAT SHOULD B USED SPARINGLY OR NOT AT ALL

P OR K DANDY STEP - dandy step isn't very good in this matchup because may can punish it 2 well. she can command grab u out of it, 2HS followed by the dolphin loop, and use dolphins 2 interrupt it just 2 name a few of her options. i would only use this move in ur OKI game followed by "under pressure" and or "it's late". i recommend "it's late" only because i think may can vertical dolphin u in between the 2 hits. try doin it as meaty as possible.

2HS - use this move to punish blocked 3k. u'll get a counter hit and free combo everytime. i say use this move sparingly because if may jumps over it.....COUNTER....dolphin loop....possible death.

MAPPAS AND MAPPA FEINTS - mappas can b countered by may's 6p so b cautious when randomly usin them to get a "quick hit" in. try 2 only use them in combos, to catch may in her backdashes, and if ur far away while she's gettin up. mappa feints r both good and bad in a way. i wouldn't recommend usin mappa feints at all when may is airborne because that's easily a COUNTER.....u know the rest. u should only use them in pressure, mix-ups, and to close distance when she is knocked down.

6K?! - although this move is essential to stupid slayer mix-ups, u should b very cautious when usin it because may can backdash 2 avoid it or vertical dolphin u for a stupid dolphin loop.....sux. i recommend that u use this move after makin may think that ur not gonna use it by repeatedly usin 2D and meaty "it"s late" so when u start usin it, it'll b guaranteed 2 hit.

alright folks there's my 25 cents on the may match-up. feel free 2 correct me on any errors i may have made about anything regardin this. hope it helps u guys out. NOW GO KICK MAY'S SORRY ASS!!!!!!

[Yonasu]

2S - i pretty much use this move as soon as i see may jump. it will work as an AA against j.HS and j.2HS as well as all her air normals. the key 2 AA may with 2S is pretty much timing. u have 2 time it where it's like may is fallin on a spike if u get what i'm sayin. NEVER try 2 2S may when she's low 2 the ground because u WILL get countered and feel her wrath. the 2S only works if she's fairly high above u. when she's low 2 the ground use 6p.

2S is probably the most important aspect of fighting May, but you cant use it whenever she is high up in the air as she can change the timing of her decent with j.D and if she is straight above you 2S will whiff and you will not be happy as she decends on you with j.2HS.

J.HS AT THE PEAK OF UR JUMP - i do this a lot actually and it works:thumbu: after u land a knockdown, jump in and do a j.HS at the peak of ur jump and if may does a vertical dolphin it will either clash or give u a counter hit for a free combo. if it clashes, do a j.k after, land doin a c.S, and proceed 2 combo.

I fail to see any good reason to do this against May, or anyone else for that matter. Doing j.HS at the peak of your jump makes it very obvious what your going to do and any decent opponent who knows how awesome Slayers j.HS is will do the reasonable thing: block. A good opponent will also know that if you block it and slayer lands right next to you it's a free throw attempt. And so you're forced to do footloose journey to get the additional knockback to avert the throw, and so you lost all momentum you gained from your knockdown. Also Mays dolphins have only lower body inv. which makes them a poor choice as a reversal attack anyway so you shouldnt really fear them as such.

6K?! - although this move is essential to stupid slayer mix-ups, u should b very cautious when usin it because may can backdash 2 avoid it or vertical dolphin u for a stupid dolphin loop.....sux. i recommend that u use this move after makin may think that ur not gonna use it by repeatedly usin 2D and meaty "it"s late" so when u start usin it, it'll b guaranteed 2 hit.

I disagree strongly concerning 6K being poor in this matchup. The threat of a reversal dolphin isnt something you need to consider as you can time the 6K meaty to prevent this. If you notice she uses reversal backdashes to avoid your 6K you can bait a backdash next time and punish with a nice combo, but this is true for almost all characters so it isnt something matchup specific.

When May summons her dolphin hoop you can react with a K mappa to interrupt her. Good to know when she has life advantage and wants to go turtle on your ass.

[Villainous]

Thanks for the advice guys, that pretty much covers most of my problems with her, I'll see how it works out next time I play. Good shit! Also, how do you guys punish backdash? I was having the problem of 6K on wakeup getting backdashed so I need a good punisher.

[Shazay]

May's 5K has throw invul. so watch out for that.

Also, how do you guys punish backdash?

If they back dash in the corner you can 6P-2P-5P~aircombo. Outside the corner you can mappa (sometimes into 5p-aircombo) or just uppa it.

[Ross]

Also Dead on time that shizz... I DOT people's backdashes, but usually it's off a guess that they are going to backdash, so make sure to have that frc ready.

[Zaido]

lol... guessing with DOT is one of those things i would think youwould do in casuals and not in a tourney environment unless ur one of those people who dont give a shit,or out of options XD... but then again i do it too so lol... haha i think 5P and 2P are decent against may? i ono... and those cross up vertical dolphins are pain in the ass when she is dolphin spamming around while ur grounded :/... dunno if you can IB the vertical dolphin and DOT her as she is recovering? if she doesnt FRC it.. anyhow... the match is like this, SHe can do massive dmg on you and you can do massive dmg on her, but you have a harder time since she is such a floaty little girl... so... got to nail those punishes good... and she can dizzy you easier then you dizzy her :/... what a pain... in conclusion i guess we agree that: -fighting her in the air is a no no... -2S is a good and needed to be used to punish her. -6P to guess her horiztonal is needed -watch out for her Jumping patterns incase 2S misses, watevers... -Dandy = no no -watch out for her Oki games with 5K etc.. -Watch out for OHK which will lead to your death -I woudl like to add that watch out for May wake up supering... since i ono.. i have seen it used before since you think she has no options then she goes Super! -i woudlnt recommend tryign to fight 6P cause you might fuck up an dget hit and die later... -2H sparringly... ok what else?

[Ross]

Well, it's not like that kind of guess... its more like a hypothesis or an educated guess or whatever... I know my opponent likes to backdash after certain strings or in certain situations and so I wait around a pressure them into doing it. You can react to a backdash and punish with DOT in certain situations against certain characters.... But its hard. Also yes, I DOT when I feel like I'm out of options and need that counter hit super to win the round. Not the best strategy but if it works:yaaay: Also as for the wake up super thing with may. Definitely watch out for that.. the one where she spins her anchor around in a circle is really fast and does lots of damage. I was watching some random casuals after evo and jamie hit some people with that like five times... ahah. Just remember its there.

[Boss]

2S is probably the most important aspect of fighting May, but you cant use it whenever she is high up in the air as she can change the timing of her decent with j.D and if she is straight above you 2S will whiff and you will not be happy as she decends on you with j.2HS. that's true about the j.D but that is also why u pay close attention to her movements before u attack. i also did say to b very cautious in this match-up.

I fail to see any good reason to do this against May, or anyone else for that matter. Doing j.HS at the peak of your jump makes it very obvious what your going to do and any decent opponent who knows how awesome Slayers j.HS is will do the reasonable thing: block. A good opponent will also know that if you block it and slayer lands right next to you it's a free throw attempt. And so you're forced to do footloose journey to get the additional knockback to avert the throw, and so you lost all momentum you gained from your knockdown. Also Mays dolphins have only lower body inv. which makes them a poor choice as a reversal attack anyway so you shouldnt really fear them as such. i believe u misunderstand the way i'm discribing this tactic and it does work against any1 with an uppercut. the timing is that u hit j.HS as soon as u jump and u can drop down with a j.k if they just sit there. u should go into trainin mode and try it.

I disagree strongly concerning 6K being poor in this matchup. The threat of a reversal dolphin isnt something you need to consider as you can time the 6K meaty to prevent this. If you notice she uses reversal backdashes to avoid your 6K you can bait a backdash next time and punish with a nice combo, but this is true for almost all characters so it isnt something matchup specific. wow, i can't believe i forgot about doin this move meaty. i actually use that but when i was typin my tactics i was thinkin about when ur pressurin her. sorry, thanx 4 pointin that out.

When May summons her dolphin hoop you can react with a K mappa to interrupt her. Good to know when she has life advantage and wants to go turtle on your ass. i do this all the time and forgot about this as well. good job pointin that out.

there we go:keke:

[Zaido]

the only thing i see about that jH thign at high point is, yea if they DP it works? but.. what if they just go for air throw? like sometimes i do liek lets say jH down, they wake up and bam i get airthrown :V... and the other question i had was, how do people do it so fast and so low off the ground? liek i did it before, but i only did it on accident :/... what motion used to do such a fast airthrow?

[Villainous]

the only thing i see about that jH thign at high point is, yea if they DP it works? but.. what if they just go for air throw? like sometimes i do liek lets say jH down, they wake up and bam i get airthrown :V...

and the other question i had was, how do people do it so fast and so low off the ground? liek i did it before, but i only did it on accident :/... what motion used to do such a fast airthrow?

I always wondered about that too. If I air throw it's usually because I got lucky, lol. >_<

[Pinion]

and the other question i had was, how do people do it so fast and so low off the ground? liek i did it before, but i only did it on accident :/... what motion used to do such a fast airthrow?

I don't know if there's a universal method, but I remember Jeff (Heidern98) showing me how to do low air throws via super jump motion back in GGXX/ and that's how I still go about doing them in AC.

[Boss]

the only thing i see about that jH thign at high point is, yea if they DP it works? but.. what if they just go for air throw? like sometimes i do liek lets say jH down, they wake up and bam i get airthrown :V...

and the other question i had was, how do people do it so fast and so low off the ground? liek i did it before, but i only did it on accident :/... what motion used to do such a fast airthrow?

well, u c ur jumpin as soon as they get up so unless they're another slayer player, they can't air throw u because if they try they'll just b jumpin straight into ur j.HS. as soon as the j.HS animation ends press k so u'll b droppin down with j.k.

the fast air throw thing? i know with slayer u can just BDC jumpin forward while pressin HS.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Boss: The thing is, j.HS still has a recovery frame before you return to neutral and can attack again. If the opponent has time to jump up and get hit by the HS, they can always wait a little bit and then jump up to throw you during j.HS's recovery. Plus you still have to factor in the startup of j.K, so there's an even bigger window. As a sidenote, when you say "the peak" of your jump, that sounds like you jump and wait for Slayer to reach his maximum height and THEN hit j.HS. It's not the same as j.HS immediately when you jump, thus why your statement confused people.

[Boss]

Boss: The thing is, j.HS still has a recovery frame before you return to neutral and can attack again. If the opponent has time to jump up and get hit by the HS, they can always wait a little bit and then jump up to throw you during j.HS's recovery. Plus you still have to factor in the startup of j.K, so there's an even bigger window.

As a sidenote, when you say "the peak" of your jump, that sounds like you jump and wait for Slayer to reach his maximum height and THEN hit j.HS. It's not the same as j.HS immediately when you jump, thus why your statement confused people.

yeah, sorry i confused u guys. the j.HS strategy isn't an all the time thing at all though. just another option when dealin with an anticipated uppercut;)