Jason D. Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 This thread is for discussing the Rachel vs Tsubaki match-up in BB:CS. Battle of the low tiers shall commence.
Jason D. Posted July 30, 2010 Author Posted July 30, 2010 I haven't played many good Tsubakis, so there's bound to be more tricks here than what I'm aware of, but here's what I've learned so far. Your zoning game shuts down her charging up game. If she's going to jump back and charge up, that's practically a free hit for you. Even her super jumping and charging in the air can be stopped quite nicely by a Sword Iris call. She'll have to give it up and come forward, which is also good for you since she has no long range moves. She may try to do the ground charge forward move or the air dive to close distance, but both of these can be stopped quite nicely by any projectile. Once she is in, however, it can be a nightmare. Her ability to cancel her moves into a charge up and then quickly cancel out of that gives her some almost endless pressure strings. Especially given the really good speed and range of her 5B. I haven't played enough of the match-up to know where the good holes in her approach are, but here's some easy stuff. If she does her low sliding move she'll jump cancel it at the end, and you can also jump and intercept her in the air. If she does her charging tackle move you can punish the recovery. If she starts to charge up the unblockable move, hit her out of it with a good 2A or similar. When you're hitting her with a 5CDC combo, don't forget that she falls down very close to Rachel. This means that ending with a 236B will very often miss her. However, this also means you can use those mid-screen frog combos really easily. Just go with George instead of the B Lobelia when comboing her. She also has a DP move, and while I haven't seen much use of it so far, I'm assuming she can IB and then DP in the middle of your blockstrings like everyone else can. If so, be careful about doing any non-tight blockstrings.
Kiba Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) Your zoning game shuts down her charging up game. If she's going to jump back and charge up, that's practically a free hit for you. Even her super jumping and charging in the air can be stopped quite nicely by a Sword Iris call. She'll have to give it up and come forward, which is also good for you since she has no long range moves. She may try to do the ground charge forward move or the air dive to close distance, but both of these can be stopped quite nicely by any projectile. Tsubaki's 22B beats Rachel's projectiles, and can be used as a counter attack too if you're close enough. If the Tsubaki is really good with timing she can even catch you with a 214B/236B if you're in range. This may mean that YOU may have rushdown onto her. This being said, you can bait it, then iris. Also use George, it's helpful, although she can very easily get rid of it with 3C which is jump cancellable on hit. Once she is in, however, it can be a nightmare. Her ability to cancel her moves into a charge up and then quickly cancel out of that gives her some almost endless pressure strings. Especially given the really good speed and range of her 5B. I haven't played enough of the match-up to know where the good holes in her approach are, but here's some easy stuff. If she does her low sliding move she'll jump cancel it at the end, and you can also jump and intercept her in the air. If she does her charging tackle move you can punish the recovery. If she starts to charge up the unblockable move, hit her out of it with a good 2A or similar. Not really. IB her block strings and punish with 2C. Tsubaki's blockstrings unfortunately are not that great. Tsubaki's OH can be punished with 2C or even 2/5a. But please, I strongly urge you not to mash out the move. It can be baited so easily and you will be severely punished for it if she has Meter and you're in the corner. Tsubaki can even get a Fatal counter combo from it, and although Tsubaki's FCC is not useful, because of Rachel's hitbox the result can usually end up with big damage. The sliding move (3CC) it may not always end with a jump cancel. She may go for a frame trap and hit you with a following 2CC with usually resorts in a CH, although she can't combo from it. The charging tackle move (236d) is +3 on block but I feel using that can be disadvantageous at times. DP's will beat whatever she does next, and usually doing that move will make it easier to apply pressure on her. However, with Rachel the best thing to do is to block. If you can see an unblockable followup, 6B. If she goes for the unblockable 6B would be better to use as it'll get you a CH, followed up by a free combo. Good Tsubaki's will usually distance themselves for the setup, so it's better to jump. She also has a DP move, and while I haven't seen much use of it so far, I'm assuming she can IB and then DP in the middle of your blockstrings like everyone else can. If so, be careful about doing any non-tight blockstrings. It can. Also because Rachel has a big hitbox this means Tsubaki can get more damage off you by adding more things to her combos. This means something like J214a CC into J214D, and possibly into a distortion. Edited October 31, 2010 by Kiba
Alex073088 Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 6b using rachel will in most situations, not land you a free combo, not even really free pressure. And from my experinces the unblockable move is not only out of 6b range. but also is invincble or has a guard point on it when done.
Kiba Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) 6b using rachel will in most situations, not land you a free combo, not even really free pressure. And from my experinces the unblockable move is not only out of 6b range. but also is invincble or has a guard point on it when done. Then in that case jump. If the 6B is not in range, it's the only safe manouver out. It's useless, but it's still something, and that's better than nothing. 22D doesn't have guard point invincibility btw. Actually I don't think it has any invincibility at all. Edited October 31, 2010 by Kiba
Alex073088 Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Then in that case jump. If the 6B is not in range, it's the only safe manouver out. It's useless, but it's still something, and that's better than nothing. 22D doesn't have guard point invincibility btw. Actually I don't think it has any invincibility at all. im positive it has some kinda of defensive attack or invincibility because me and my friend was talking about it once. I even cat chaired right beside her and she some how when unshocked and i got hit by the unblockable. The only real bothersome thing about this match-up is infact catching her, rushing tsubaki is a little bit better then allowing her to harass you with her 5b, and 2a. and go through your zoning with her full screen dash. If you allow her to charge all 5 bars your in alot of trouble she can easyly out damage you, or just force you to block a long while. the dash with charge added is frame advantage and when she has the option available you have to respect it.
Jason D. Posted November 1, 2010 Author Posted November 1, 2010 Well I don't know about any invincibility on her unblockable (and the frame data here doesn't mention it), but I do know that the cat chair's guard point will NOT stop any unblockable, so maybe that's what happened to you. Also, I'd honestly never recommend 6B to stop her unblockable. It can be done, but just in general that 6B is pretty slow, so unless you're REALLY ready for that unblockable, you're probably just going to get hit if you try to stuff it with 6B on reaction. Jumping away (or backdash) is definitely better.
Alex073088 Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i was playing against tsubaki today and she did the unblockable move( i jumped away everytime.) and she was sitting on top of 3 rods when doing it, i activated them and she guard pointed them and took no damage or even recognition of the shock. Also throw tempest dailha at her, and she guard pointed through most of it. So as i said before it had some kinda of defensive resistance, and that resistance is that its invunerable to projectiles. They will simply be guard pointed like bands d moves.
iamkitkatbar Posted November 4, 2010 Posted November 4, 2010 Her B moves have projectile guardpoint 22B has the best out of them all, the others will land you counter hit more likely than 22B Only 22D charged is unblockable You can tell which one she is using by the color
Alex073088 Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 OHHHHHHH god i cannot stand chasing this air chargging jack rabbit bitch!. All tsubakis runn all over the place, and then jump in the sky to charge then come down with the dive move. Sure on block your okay, but if it misses you they are full screen yet again. and you dont want to let tsubaki charge, if you do you can and will be blocking a long time. One miss read move could lead to almost 5k and you definitley dont want to compete with that. after more running and charging this bitch is annoying!
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