bbq sauce Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I hate this match. It seems honestly like all his buttons beat all of Jin's buttons. If he makes you block a chain, there's no real reliable way to stop him from pulling in and pressuring/mixing up. Bar blocking a long recovery normal and DAA'ing out.. which isn't always avaiable considering we need meter for damage/oki off air combos. When he has 50 tension, walk on egg shells almost any IB = FC hotenjin unless you jump cancel.. Moves slower moves like 6B and 6D get shut down. His overheads are slow, but safe on normal block (6A is -5, Jin's faster ground normal is 6f, and 214D~A is +1 or 2 I believe) 6A only seems cancellable to supers, not sure if they come out on block or not.. Somebody confirm? I don't think it has a long enough cancel window to confirm on hit, could be wrong, though. 214D~A is probably still safe on IB.. slow though, depending on how it's set up 5C might interupt it for a combo.. DP'able at the very least.. super counter seems feasable. His command grab beats C DP and D DP.. don't be predictable.. the damage is low, but, it's feeding him free meter, and it's a knockdown. To me, it feels like the only way to win is to get in his ass, before his has meter and never let him go. Which, is way harder than it sounds, as, he controls the neutral game in this match almost completely.
xlolxlolx Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 no hazama with a brain would throw out 6A unless they want to jayoku, but in ways it sorta works as an AA o_O 214D itself has 6 frames before you can cancel into A/B/C/D so you could throw a 5A if you're that close anyways hazama can do j.214B# from 236C hazama is taking a bigger risk by getting closer to you since he's pretty wide open after a blocked 3C
smooshman Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 I find that you're always at one of two ranges: point blank (his advantage) and long range (his), and you can't get far enough away to effectively use 5C and 2D without getting CH'd.... it's so annoying.
ZhePrime Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 hazama is taking a bigger risk by getting closer to you since he's pretty wide open after a blocked 3C After a blocked 3C a Venom Sword (236D) should come out.
xlolxlolx Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 oh yeah, that slipped my mind, but not many followups since 236D pushes jin back
Ice Cube Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 5B is safe to throw out to interrupt 214D~A (25 frame startup fastest) even after normally blocking a lv4 normal. Airdashing while Hazama is on the ground is suicide. Try to get underneath him when he's in the air. He has no chain that reach there, and his air normals (without aid of chains) all suck. Expect to punish jumps a lot.
bbq sauce Posted August 10, 2010 Author Posted August 10, 2010 no hazama with a brain would throw out 6A unless they want to jayoku, but in ways it sorta works as an AA o_O This doesn't make any sense. obv by what I wrote, you should gather that in situations where he's use 6A he's looking for hotenjin follow up. Info I'm lacking here is whether hotenjin comes out on block, and is the cancel window long enough for a hit confirm.. How 6A works as anti air.. I am lost... 214D itself has 6 frames before you can cancel into A/B/C/D so you could throw a 5A if you're that close anyways If you can see the 6 frames start up of his stance special, and 5A it on reaction, you need to be in Guiness books. hazama can do j.214B# from 236C I donno what this is supposed to mean, but, when I wrote that his commagra combo leads to knock down, I assumed people knew that's what I meant. hazama is taking a bigger risk by getting closer to you since he's pretty wide open after a blocked 3C Nobody would just throw out 3C on block with no follow up.. expect 236D on block. Not sure what you were trying to contribute with this post? @ Smooshman, point blank depends on who's momentum is going, if he did something like chain pull in > j2C>stuff, generally, you will have to just block your way out.. but, if say you got him to block a jump in, or blocked something safe, but with disadvantage to turn things around, point blank is Jin's advantage, since he lacks a good pressure escape with out meter. 5B is safe to throw out to interrupt 214D~A (25 frame startup fastest) even after normally blocking a lv4 normal. Airdashing while Hazama is on the ground is suicide. Try to get underneath him when he's in the air. He has no chain that reach there, and his air normals (without aid of chains) all suck. Expect to punish jumps a lot. Good input, thank you.
xlolxlolx Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 sorry some of the stuff i put down earlier was based off experience and other posts ive seen around forum. 6A is slow and easy to hit confirm, cancels into jayoku even on block so you have plenty of time to punish it the 214D 6 frames thing i saw in a post so i was just assuming and apparently that was wrong all you typed for command grab was that damage is low, gives him meter, and knockdown so you can take it that i'm clarifying what you typed since anything hazama ends with j.214B is a knockdown the last one i corrected myself and 3C>236D gives hazama +1 on block so you can't really do much after that hazama's j.2D goes straight below so running under him isn't completely safe but it's safer his j.B has pretty good reach but not good enough to beat j.C, it can also be used as part of his mix up of from high to low, expect this to follow from a chain in hazama's 5C on block can go either way, he can JC in j.2C for a overhead hit or 3C for a low hit, most won't go for the j.2C, but it becomes a guessing game if they do use it.
flytai45 Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 anyway to counter hazama's chain? like if he's spamming it or if he just keeps usin his chain and comin after you for followup
smooshman Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 anyway to counter hazama's chain? like if he's spamming it or if he just keeps usin his chain and comin after you for followup dodge it, bait it, null it with drive/swords. JC to counter approach.
flytai45 Posted August 28, 2010 Posted August 28, 2010 dodge it, bait it, null it with drive/swords. JC to counter approach. k ty ima try this out right now
Jin and Juice Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 dodge it, bait it, null it with drive/swords. JC to counter approach. Turtling, chain-tossing Hazama is hell. You can dodge it a bit, but he's got options from virtually every area of the screen, and he's insanely mobile. You can't really bait it cuz he can just cancel the chain with A. Chains > Museo, if you C/B Fubaki he has the option of pulling himself along the chain without connecting on a hit or block. 5D and 2D are unreliable, but it'll work. Swords work, but if he connects with the chain on a sword he can use THAT to pull on too. I think his JB outranges our JC too. I personally just wait for gaps and errors, or for him to advance and eat a Fubaki.
bbq sauce Posted September 16, 2010 Author Posted September 16, 2010 dodge it, bait it, null it with drive/swords. JC to counter approach. Dodge it is ok, but, it doesn't gain you that much, considering he can cancel it's recovery. Define "bait it". Because I mean, really, you "bait" him into doing it and then what? Punish it? lololol Unless you have 50 meter and can wave super it on reaction, hfgl with punishing a "baited" chain. Nulling it with drives is terrible. If he fakes a chain and you do any drive you've got 20f+ recovery, for him to easily do CH chain > pull in > combo Clashing with swords isn't as bad, as you can control a small amount of the screen with it preemptively.. But, still, it really doesn't give you any advantage.
Yuushiro Posted September 16, 2010 Posted September 16, 2010 move unpredictably , from the air or ground to get into midrange.., and then go from there
Locke Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 I really hate Hazama. I never get to fight anyone else either. It's always Hazama fags, or an Arakune who does 9K damage. Anyway Jin's Yukikaze would counter, but Hazama could just SJ out of the way cuz his chain is a projectile. I haven't been able to do it, but I think IB the chain and then do...something...when he comes in... I can't think of what would work right now.
smooshman Posted October 4, 2010 Posted October 4, 2010 I really hate Hazama. I never get to fight anyone else either. It's always Hazama fags, or an Arakune who does 9K damage. Anyway Jin's Yukikaze would counter, but Hazama could just SJ out of the way cuz his chain is a projectile. I haven't been able to do it, but I think IB the chain and then do...something...when he comes in... I can't think of what would work right now. actually he can't just jump out of the way of yuki off a chain.... not sure why, maybe something about hit stop, and how the the chain starts on hazama and is connected to him.
bbq sauce Posted October 8, 2010 Author Posted October 8, 2010 have yukikaze on que o.O? If you ahve 50 meter and he is on the ground, do wave super on reaction to chains. A cancel means you blew 50 meter for no reason, if you did yuki. Not worth it.
shtkn Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 not only that, but unless you are able to counter the chain on the very first active frame before superfreeze, they can just press A/B/C/D during the superfreeze to stop the chain and you just wasted 50% on a failed yukikaze. i know hazama's chains are a bit wierd in that you can clash with them with normal attacks (like j.C), so they're both physical and projectile attacks. I haven't tested this, but i'm pretty sure hazama is still free to move if you catch a chain with yukikaze.
Locke Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 I tested the Yukikaze vs Stupid Chain thing. Hazama just froze there with his hand in the air like an idiot. Haven't tried it against his chain while he's jumping though. By the way, my friend and I do this stuff in training mode. Just in case anyone wants to know.
Fireryda Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 If you catch chain with yukikaze, Hazama can't do anything.. not sure if he can RC the chain and get out of the way but since he can't retract it i'd assume you can't rc and escape.
shtkn Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 ic, guess i'm wrong on that part hten edit: RC shouldn't work since it definitely doesn't work for anyone else's physical attacks.
flytai45 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 what are some of the methods you guys use to bait chains?
flytai45 Posted December 30, 2010 Posted December 30, 2010 I hate this match. It seems honestly like all his buttons beat all of Jin's buttons. If he makes you block a chain, there's no real reliable way to stop him from pulling in and pressuring/mixing up. Bar blocking a long recovery normal and DAA'ing out.. which isn't always avaiable considering we need meter for damage/oki off air combos. When he has 50 tension, walk on egg shells almost any IB = FC hotenjin unless you jump cancel.. Moves slower moves like 6B and 6D get shut down. His overheads are slow, but safe on normal block (6A is -5, Jin's faster ground normal is 6f, and 214D~A is +1 or 2 I believe) 6A only seems cancellable to supers, not sure if they come out on block or not.. Somebody confirm? I don't think it has a long enough cancel window to confirm on hit, could be wrong, though. 214D~A is probably still safe on IB.. slow though, depending on how it's set up 5C might interupt it for a combo.. DP'able at the very least.. super counter seems feasable. His command grab beats C DP and D DP.. don't be predictable.. the damage is low, but, it's feeding him free meter, and it's a knockdown. To me, it feels like the only way to win is to get in his ass, before his has meter and never let him go. Which, is way harder than it sounds, as, he controls the neutral game in this match almost completely. This method right here worked for me, once i got in i stayed in and kept pressure up which made the match alot easier!
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