Yuai367 Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 Discuss the Ragna vs. Makoto matchup here. I'm generally confused about this one seeing as how she has the epic low attack and the ability to appear in one of 3 places at a given time. I'm thinking its a fairly even match leaning toward Ragna's favor...Anybody who knows what they're talking about help me XD
Kain Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 Nah, keep it up here. It'll be useful for discussing the matchup on Ragna's side.
Blade Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 My experience: May be different for others...(pardon my terminology, I don't know all her move names yet) Makoto's 3C is either going to come out or it's not, 2B, 5C deal with it, and 6C if you're fast to react (she can do similar things to your 5B that Noel can, so if she does get inside, get 2C out). You really have to think about what it is she's trying to do. Obviously the main goal is to get inside, where her punches are faster than Ragna's. But a good Makoto player can actually use her D punches to get inside safely. And unless they're really good at doing the Acorn Shadow Clone thing and mixing it up, 5D will deal with most of that. She may try Bandit Bringer or the 2-hit Chun-Li jump-in combo, if only to start her Space Counter Loop. She WILL use her DP if she thinks it's safe. Space Counter Loop only works so many reps on Ragna, if they do too many and she gets caught in the air on a mistimed jump cancel, you get a free hit. The hardest thing I tend to deal with are her mixups into her Pilebunker move. That's where Ragna has to learn how to fight at "max range" so that she can't get inside and mix you up. One of my means is 5D dash cancel 5B ID. Only dash cancel if you hit confirm the tip of 5D, also, using 6A for jump-ins, 5C for other aerial stuff. Having a projectile means she can keep you from doing your usual pressure, so j.C is useful and Gauntlet Hades. Getting a counterhit on Gauntlet Hades (2nd part) is do-able, I think, but like I said, being familiar with max-range combos helps (combos that only use the tips of Ragna's hitboxes). I have yet to see Makoto players actually use Space Counter for what it's for...even when they're cornered.
Kain Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 I don't know much of this matchup, as I'm unable to play the game right now, but... Makoto's 3C is either going to come out or it's not, 2B, 5C deal with it, and 6C if you're fast to react Using 6C to beat her 3C out, or any move in general, is never a good idea. And from what it looks like, no self-respecting Makoto is ever going to do 3C for any reason when her 2B does the job way better. The hardest thing I tend to deal with are her mixups into her Pilebunker move. That's where Ragna has to learn how to fight at "max range" so that she can't get inside and mix you up. You have a DP for that, don't you? I hear Makoto's blockstrings are shitty (ie: full of holes), so that might help. One of my means is 5D>6A>j.C>j.D>j.C>BE>3C>5D(1)>214A-D. Everything should go into a BE BnB, no questions asked. Having a projectile means she can keep you from doing your usual pressure Isn't her projectile just a gimmicky way to get in? It's certainly not going to be a real threat in any case. Getting a counterhit on Gauntlet Hades (2nd part) is do-able, I think, but like I said, being familiar with max-range combos helps (combos that only use the tips of Ragna's hitboxes). In what situation is getting a CH on the GH followup practical? Assuming you're serious about that, GH's followup is a bit too slow to CH anything, and I believe someone would've been blocking anyway when they saw GH in the first place. I have yet to see Makoto players actually use Space Counter for what it's for...even when they're cornered. Maybe because they have a DP and the parry loop makes actual parrying obsolete, I guess.
Yuai367 Posted August 31, 2010 Author Posted August 31, 2010 I've found out something fairly interesting. When makoto does that move where she splits into 3 and can teleport to either of the 3, 5C can apparantly hit her and you can score a counter hit and possibly a free combo. I haven't bought Makoto yet so i have no real way of testing this out, so can anybody give this a try and see if it works? Edit: Apparantly 5B can hit her out as well, but i only know this is true for her A version of the move. I'm thinking for maybe the B version you can 5B or 5C and then gauntlet hades which could lead into something, but i'm not entirely sure
Arvoyea Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Please don't tell me that this is all we have so far. I'd like some more knowledge on this matchup. Got beat by a Makoto player last Norcal Install.
LuminAbyss Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Please don't tell me that this is all we have so far. I'd like some more knowledge on this matchup. Got beat by a Makoto player last Norcal Install. Same here. All I know is that spacing Makoto on the ground is easy with his 5B and 5C. You know what was beating you out that match?
KayEff Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Protip: don't be afraid to use 5D. It catches asteroid vision and 3C (latter which I honestly don't get, but oh well :v)
Arvoyea Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Protip: don't be afraid to use 5D. It catches asteroid vision and 3C (latter which I honestly don't get, but oh well :v) Not sure I'd wanna do that, I only use 5D in combos lol. I lost to Makoto's overhead a lot somehow in my NCI match with the Makoto player. He kept doing the same shit too, I should have been able to download his strategy at least after the first match...
OmniSScythe Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I'm guessing you was playing Crosell. lol In any case I've done a small write up for Makoto versus Ragna which you can probably pick apart to help better yourself: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9591-CS-Makoto-vs.-Ragna&p=889834&viewfull=1#post889834
Yggjrasil Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 This match-up is very spacing and momentum based. You've got tools to keep her out and she's got tools to get in and stay in if you're not careful. What you want to focus on is not being so predictable about your approach. Comet Cannon, 6A, and a well placed Corona Upper will stuff it. Try your best to mix-up your spacing pokes. If you use 5B too much, they'll 3C under it and punish you with a combo leading into 4-5k+ and Corner oki. Use 5C sparingly, if you get a counter hit you can follow up with Hell's Fang and have her stuck in the corner right where you want to keep her. 6A clashes with her j.2c so don't go relying on that to AA her every time. If you see that bushy tail coming down, use C Inferno Divider and if it hits once, then try to follow up with dash 5B to double BE combo since opponents can't tech out of CH C ID till they hit the ground. Don't approach from the air predictably. Space Counter Fatals go up to 9k (I may be exaggerating but I heard that they go past 5k), need I say anymore?
OmniSScythe Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 Makoto can't punish 5B with 3C unless you whiffed it over an already active 3C (should also lead to 7-8k dmg...). Don't be afraid to zone with long range j.C as her 6A and parry's effect doesn't reach that far. Seriously don't attempt to 5D or 2C(unless it's within the first 12 frames) to punish her roll.
Recommended Posts