JG Posted December 11, 2010 Posted December 11, 2010 Hahaha. I personally just don't want him to suck. He'll definitely get better though, hopefully. It's just an initial couple of days impresseion list, so it doesn't really mean much in the long run, unless you're ara who will most likely still be SS down the road. Are you sure that Arakune is overpowered? or it just the first imprecions.
soujiro seta Posted December 11, 2010 Posted December 11, 2010 Are you sure that Arakune is overpowered? or it just the first imprecions. I didn't say overpowered, just I think he'll still remain top. He has his rediculous damage (which isn't dependent on screen placement), and he's only going to get better.
JG Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCYDr6LsRu8 Well that Carl was just.. destroyed, hard to notice the new chages, BUT The only thing that i can tell for sure after seeing that match is that the new 3c SUCK!!! MONKEY CO@K. IT AWFULL AS HELL!!!!!!!!!! SAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also 3]D[ dosnĀ“t look to great. Plz! pretty plz!! Carl mus be A tier.
soujiro seta Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCYDr6LsRu8 Well that Carl was just.. destroyed, hard to notice the new chages, BUT The only thing that i can tell for sure after seeing that match is that the new 3c SUCK!!! MONKEY CO@K. IT AWFULL AS HELL!!!!!!!!!! SAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also 3]D[ dosnĀ“t look to great. Plz! pretty plz!! Carl mus be A tier. LMAO. that vid doesn't show anything since the carl got bodied and really couldn't do anything. No need to jump the gun. It does confirm that nirvana dies quickly though.
JG Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) LMAO. that vid doesn't show anything since the carl got bodied and really couldn't do anything. No need to jump the gun. It does confirm that nirvana dies quickly though. Im not so sure about that, but did you check Nirvana regen speed? is AWESOME, speed of ligtht and stuff. I suppose that when Nirvana dies, the regen speed is slow as hell. Edited December 12, 2010 by JG
Mascarpone Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) He has his rediculous damage If he can still play keep away and zone you into that ridiculous damage i would say he'll be pretty over-the top. Sorry but nothing should do 8k+... I didnt like clap trapping in CT so idk why this is okay. But enough bitching about arakune. speaking of CT tho, why do i feel like we may be going back to the days of lame-carl. And yay that we still seem to get beat out by mashing. Edited December 12, 2010 by Mascarpone
JG Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) If he can still play keep away and zone you into that ridiculous damage i would say he'll be pretty over-the top. Sorry but nothing should do 8k+... I didnt like clap trapping in CT so idk why this is okay. But enough bitching about arakune. speaking of CT tho, why do i feel like we may be going back to the days of lame-carl. And yay that we still seem to get beat out by mashing. Well.. we still donĀ“t know if arakune can do 8k dmg. Triying to think it more deaaply. If arakune max dmg with full curse is like 6k or 7k at top, that mean that he will most do combos aroun 4K or 5K because he have to use his curse meter to get an oppening and that cant take a little while. That why on Cs you donĀ“t see too much 10k full combos, etc,etc. Im pretty sure that i read something similar that this example but with CS arakune some weeks ago. Arakune player bitching that is not so true that is guarantee 10 k or 8 k combos. About the second thing that you said.. why im starting to belive that. That Carl now is going to be lame. I hope that im WAY wrong, seriusly Carl need to be a good char because if not... what is the motive to pick the hardest of the harderst awesome char in the game xD. What i was wondering after seeing that vid, if 3c is full techable. And is that true, 3]D[ wouldnĀ“t be some kind of useless? because what will be our option to knock down the rival and effectivity be able to forece stading him with 3]D[?. We also have to remmeber that Carl learning curve is atrocious, meaning that using Carl with full extencion will take a matter of time... LONG time. Who know, maybe we can still do 5k or 6k combo after some reset or unblockeable. If i recall correctly, Volante combos were discovered about 6 month after CS 1 was released. And 4]D[ a took a little bit more. The problem for me, if that know i canĀ“t imagine a new loop especially if Nirvana dosnt have any new move and Carl loose some of his options to do combos. In the end, time will tell if Carl is a A tier or just a low tier. Edited December 12, 2010 by JG
ansem Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 So they nerf his damage, took out some of his defensive options, remove some of his combo loops, and made Ada die quicker. All for what? a new 3d and super armor on a useless command grab? They gave him too many nerfs and other characters are looking way stronger in comparison. So from the looks of it Carl is gonna be low tier, but that's just my opinion for now. Hopefully things will change for the better.
Akanishi Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 He seems to have more unfavourable match-ups this time around. Still he got a few new unblockable setups with 3D and something with 4D(not really damage related, just a method that assures that the opponents get to the end of the screen from a certain combo). Anima having superarmor is pretty pointless, since skilled people would just tech it anyway or just massacre nirvana because of her lower health... don't understand why they made his only command grab techable. Carl's most annoying match-up at moment is makoto from usidon's few notes. Other characters like Jin, Tsubaki, Hakumen and Noel seem to be pretty hard to deal with too. Dunno how badly the IB system affects Carl's defense, but for now we can just wait for new combos/Tactics to pop-up.
soujiro seta Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) Im not so sure about that, but did you check Nirvana regen speed? is AWESOME, speed of ligtht and stuff. I suppose that when Nirvana dies, the regen speed is slow as hell. Faster regen speed doesn't help him if nirvana dies so quickly. How can you approach, keep your opponent from running away, sandwich, pressure, hitconfirm into resets/juggles when she dies so fast? All the while the process of getting to that point requires that nirvana take a lot of hits, and you would have spend a lot of meter. So what meter are you going to have left to pressure? Talk less of actually attempting resets or getting a decent combo assuming she isn't dead by then. Now I see why stunedge said he's a lot less scary and put him so low. Nivana doesn't have enough health for him to do anything worthwhile. He seems to have more unfavourable match-ups this time around. Still he got a few new unblockable setups with 3D and something with 4D(not really damage related, just a method that assures that the opponents get to the end of the screen from a certain combo). Anima having superarmor is pretty pointless, since skilled people would just tech it anyway or just massacre nirvana because of her lower health... don't understand why they made his only command grab techable. Carl's most annoying match-up at moment is makoto from usidon's few notes. Other characters like Jin, Tsubaki, Hakumen and Noel seem to be pretty hard to deal with too. Dunno how badly the IB system affects Carl's defense, but for now we can just wait for new combos/Tactics to pop-up. Those noticable bad matchups at the moment make a lot of sense. Jin/tsu/noel/mak in CS2 deal braindead easy damage, and they are rushdown characters. Since she dies so quickly carl can't defend himself. So they get in so easily and rush him down for free. Hakumen is probably more annoying than anything, cause now he's more zoner oriented. Lol, just what carl wanted. I won't be surprised if Mu vs Carl turns out to be like 8-2. Edited December 12, 2010 by soujiro seta
Dream Maker Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 Dude, i really appreciate the work that you have done to inform us about CS 2 Carl changes. Iām really thankfully to you. Quick question, is Carl your main? If that so, what do you think about Carl in Cs2? Do you think that he is going to be a strong character? Also, can we still do Volante and 4]D[ combo? Anyway, thank for your support = ) You're welcome. About Carl being my main I'd say yes and no, in fact I've always tried to play him since CT but the lack of training mode (I don't have the game) and me sucking at certain commands make the execution barrier to difficult for me. So in CS I ended playing Hakumen way more than Carl. In fact I was hoping that in CS2 he would lose his difficult juggle combos and have some other ways to do max damage instead, but seems for now that his old combos are still here and are still are the best way to deal the most damage, so I'm screwed. Also regarding Carl placement this time I can't really say but my personal feeling is that he should end up being mid or something like that. He has without few doubts been nerfed has a whole and his new plus things are not really likely to make up for the nerfs IMO but the character's concept is such as he has one of the best pressure in the game and has plenty of room to grow so I can hardly see him become low tier. Regarding his loops I haven't tried but I see no reason why they would not be possible anymore, they just do far less damage and the new proration values on the moves may also change his optimal combo patterns.
Marisa Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 This is what I fear, a Carl with no combos, no damage, and no Nee-san to make up for it. Few play him as it is, if his learning curve isn't rewarded with a decent character, nobody will bother at all. His character design doesn't really allow for him to be very mid-tier, he's either got to be good or he'll be bad. I know it's still rather early to call doom and gloom for Carl, but it's certainly not looking very good at the moment. Here's hoping we don't end up with Rachel's hand-me-down wheelchair.
JG Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 This is what I fear, a Carl with no combos, no damage, and no Nee-san to make up for it. Few play him as it is, if his learning curve isn't rewarded with a decent character, nobody will bother at all. His character design doesn't really allow for him to be very mid-tier, he's either got to be good or he'll be bad. I know it's still rather early to call doom and gloom for Carl, but it's certainly not looking very good at the moment. Here's hoping we don't end up with Rachel's hand-me-down wheelchair. I totally agree with you. We just have to wait and see what happen. Rigth now, Carl just look sad. Time will show the real Carl True.
Mascarpone Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 I'm really starting to see CS Rachle honestly. What happened to rachle in CS? they took away everything and gave her like.. what one new trick. CS2 Carl, they've taken away his damage, his footsie tit for tat, his human shield, he lost his air reverse Gatling, and we get 3D pick up. lose almost everything, get 1 parlor trick. and Struggling for 4K with a Super was Rachel's bag in CS. and she could at least run away. We can't. I'm really legit worried..
JG Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) I'm really starting to see CS Rachle honestly. What happened to rachle in CS? they took away everything and gave her like.. what one new trick. CS2 Carl, they've taken away his damage, his footsie tit for tat, his human shield, he lost his air reverse Gatling, and we get 3D pick up. lose almost everything, get 1 parlor trick. and Struggling for 4K with a Super was Rachel's bag in CS. and she could at least run away. We can't. I'm really legit worried.. Like you im also worried about Cs2 Carl. But seeing the other character i notice that the max dmg overall was drastically lowered. With luck Arakune can get almos 5K with a curse combo and that is sad because Noel can do 4k without the necesity to curse XD. Still, the other chars dosnt seem to deal above 5k dmg. So maybe Carl doing 5k with super isnĀ“t so bad at all. I agree in the stuff that we loose. Seriusly? no footsiee, no human shield? not being able to do reversal? vivance A without invul frames?... Im starting to belive that the sad thing about CS2 being a new game is, its like playing with CS1 character but way more limited. Also Noel seem to be really strong. Edited December 12, 2010 by JG
Akanishi Posted December 12, 2010 Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) āć«ć«ć« é¢ē½ćććØćÆé¢ē½ććć ćć©ććęŖę„ćč¦ććŖć - He's interesting to play, but I don't see the future ćØć«ćććć«ćå§ć²ć¼ćøćč¶³ććŖćć»ć»ć» - anyway, nirvana meter isn't enough å§ć²ć¼ćøććŖććØē«åćåŗćŖćć»ć»ć» - Without meter, there's no damage å§ć²ć¼ćøććŖććØéććć£ć©ć«åƾćć¦ęćč¶³ćåŗćŖćć»ć»ć» - Without meter, as runaway character he fails é¢ē½ććć ćć©ććć£ć±ćåć¦ćŖććØć¤ćććć®ćććć¾ć - He's interesting but not winning is not interesting ē¾ē¶ćććĪ¼č¾ŗćć«éćåććć¦å§ććęÆåććć¦č©¦åć«ćŖććŖć - At present, characters like Tsubaki, Mu just move without problem, eventually nirvana stops functioning and it stops being a fair match äøęćäŗŗć®åē»ćØćč¦ćććć - I want to watch a really good player's videos... Just translated, a bit rough. It's just usidon's/gyuudon's opinion on Carl at the moment. Hopefully it's just a first bad impression and not a CS rachel type character... Edited December 12, 2010 by Akanishi
JG Posted December 13, 2010 Posted December 13, 2010 (edited) Is this the end for Carl in Cs2? Is Carl a character that can do hight dmg combos in CS2? Is Carl going to be low tier? OR! is Carl to be top tier?! Tune in tomorrow ā same Carl-time, same Carl-channel!" xD Edited December 13, 2010 by JG
soujiro seta Posted December 13, 2010 Posted December 13, 2010 āć«ć«ć« é¢ē½ćććØćÆé¢ē½ććć ćć©ććęŖę„ćč¦ććŖć - He's interesting to play, but I don't see the future ćØć«ćććć«ćå§ć²ć¼ćøćč¶³ććŖćć»ć»ć» - anyway, nirvana meter isn't enough å§ć²ć¼ćøććŖććØē«åćåŗćŖćć»ć»ć» - Without meter, there's no damage å§ć²ć¼ćøććŖććØéććć£ć©ć«åƾćć¦ęćč¶³ćåŗćŖćć»ć»ć» - Without meter, as runaway character he fails é¢ē½ććć ćć©ććć£ć±ćåć¦ćŖććØć¤ćććć®ćććć¾ć - He's interesting but not winning is not interesting ē¾ē¶ćććĪ¼č¾ŗćć«éćåććć¦å§ććęÆåććć¦č©¦åć«ćŖććŖć - At present, characters like Tsubaki, Mu just move without problem, eventually nirvana stops functioning and it stops being a fair match äøęćäŗŗć®åē»ćØćč¦ćććć - I want to watch a really good player's videos... Just translated, a bit rough. It's just usidon's/gyuudon's opinion on Carl at the moment. Hopefully it's just a first bad impression and not a CS rachel type character... Just like i said earlier How can you approach, keep your opponent from running away, sandwich, pressure, hitconfirm into resets/juggles when she dies so fast? All the while the process of getting to that point requires that nirvana take a lot of hits, and you would have spend a lot of meter. So what meter are you going to have left to pressure? Talk less of actually attempting resets or getting a decent combo assuming she isn't dead by then. Now I see why stunedge said he's a lot less scary and put him so low. Nivana doesn't have enough health for him to do anything worthwhile. Since she dies so quickly carl can't defend himself. So they get in so easily and rush him down for free. I won't be surprised if Mu vs Carl turns out to be like 8-2. Is this the end for Carl in Cs2? Is Carl a character that can do hight dmg combos in CS2? Is Carl going to be low tier? OR! is Carl to be top tier?! Tune in tomorrow ā same Carl-time, same Carl-channel!" xD Lol, I'm not even worrying about damage right now. Nirvana will die before you can get in and hitconfirm. We need vids, but if he's as bad as he's sounding right now, then I don't know who'll be brave enough to show themselves getting blown up just so we can examine his problems.
ZONG_one Posted December 13, 2010 Posted December 13, 2010 I was noticing that.. I couldn't find a single Carl vid. :[
soujiro seta Posted December 13, 2010 Posted December 13, 2010 (edited) Btw Akanishi thanks for all your translations so far. They've really helped I was noticing that.. I couldn't find a single Carl vid. :[ There's 1, but....hahahahaha. It doesn't show anything except carl ... . Edited December 13, 2010 by soujiro seta
ZONG_one Posted December 13, 2010 Posted December 13, 2010 Lol awesome vid. :[ we won't know if he's actually that bad for probably a month.. but it's not looking so great I guess. I dunno.
soujiro seta Posted December 13, 2010 Posted December 13, 2010 Lol awesome vid. :[ we won't know if he's actually that bad for probably a month.. but it's not looking so great I guess. I dunno. What I find funny is that in the first round after his burst, all he did was burst 8D 3D 6D. 1 more move and she would have broken. Lol so 3 moves at a time huh. What was arc thinking?
ZONG_one Posted December 13, 2010 Posted December 13, 2010 I don't know, I always think their changes are random. Like they don't know what they want to do. And the game seems unplayable with Ara in it the way he is. :[
Mascarpone Posted December 13, 2010 Posted December 13, 2010 the combo after the burst started with about 20% of her life already gone but yes. She was dying way too fast. I did notice that it looks like 3C starts up faster and maybe even recovers a little faster. yay? And when he does it a second time in round 2 3C doesn't even put enough hit/block stun to protect him from makoto mashing out. p.s. Arakune has always made the game unplayable. I'm a firm believer that he is unfixable.
soujiro seta Posted December 13, 2010 Posted December 13, 2010 I don't know, I always think their changes are random. Like they don't know what they want to do. And the game seems unplayable with Ara in it the way he is. :[ The problem is arc tried to make CS2 faster. That's why they shortened combos and lessened the hitstop. They tried to put that faster gameplay in Carl. So they went "Why don't we reduce nirvana's meter to lessens how long he can pressure, how long he can hold a strong defense, his combos, etc. By doing this he'll have to pressure in short burst, and he can't hold a good defense for too long so others can get in on him easier and faster. In turn making fights vs carl appear faster. Yeah that's a good idea lets do that." Problem is if they actually played carl, they would know that there is no such thing as a faster/speedier carl. You can't speed up his gameplay as easily as you can the other characters. There's really no such thing as a mid tier carl. Carl by design is a zoner, has a strong defensive/turtlish game, and can apply strong pressure. When a character plays so many roles it's hard for them to be mid. He's either really solid (CS1) or gutter trash (CT carl without throw loop and most likely CS2 carl.).
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