Kakimori Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 I main Lambda, but play Valkenhayn pretty seriously too. Now that CS:EX is coming out, I'm planning on getting back into the game again, but I'm not sure if I should continue with Valk or not. I like his human form more than his wolf form (blasphemous, I know). I play him as a pretty defensive character and use the ridiculous hitboxes on his 5C and jC to zone a lot, mixing in blockstrings off 2C -> 6B when I get a chance. I have good yomi and spacing, but not the best execution, so I'm completely unable to do anything more than simple combos (i.e. jC -> 236B~B). Still, I'm pretty successful with him even as a more human-based Valk (I switch to wolf after knockdowns to get in quickly and apply mixups, but can't combo off of hitconfirms). It seems like most of his BnB's have 1-3 frame windows for changing from wolf into human in the air and continuing the combo, and I've never been able to do it at will. Is it worth continuing on with Valk even if I can't do his combos? Is there some trick to them that I'm missing, or are his BnB's just really, really hard? I love him a lot but I'm just not sure I'll be able to develop the character as much as he deserves to be developed.
Sahgren Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 If you want to keep playing Valk, keep playing him. If your problem is execution, you can just sit in training mode and practice until you get the combos down. No reason to stop playing a character you want to play because you have yet to get down his combos. Don't be afraid to ask here for help or flip through the backlog of the General and Technical Discussion threads if you're truly stumped on how to do it. On practicing combos: A good suggestion is to isolate the section that's giving you trouble and practice it until it becomes easier. For example, if you're having trouble with his [w]5B > j.D~B > dj.B > dj.C, practice just that without the combo leading up to it to help get it down.
Kakimori Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 Well, the trouble is not that I don't yet have his combos down, it's that I'm not sure I'll ever get his combos down no matter how hard I work. I think I practiced that loop that you mentioned above for over 2 hours with ZERO signs of success...most of the time I can't even transform into human form in the air, and when I do it's more accident than anything else. My execution is just really, really bad. I guess I'll give it another shot, though.
Sahgren Posted January 29, 2012 Posted January 29, 2012 Practice rarely goes to waste. It might not seem like you're getting any better immediately, but it'll pay off later if you just keep thinking about what you're doing wrong and keep trying to correct it. Even if it isn't working, try to limit it down to one problem at a time. If you can't get back into human for [w]5B > j.D~B, try to consistently make it so that you get back into human after jumping without worrying about the j.B. After that, try to consistently get into human and having the j.B come out without worrying about it hitting, and so on and so forth. Basically, make a process out of it rather than trying to tackle everything that's going wrong in one go.
DJ_Blactricity Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Does anyone know of a way to take advantage of 236B's bonus proration without using meter?
Sahgren Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Does anyone know of a way to take advantage of 236B's bonus proration without using meter? To my knowledge, there isn't. You could do 236B~236B in the corner by comboing into from 2C or just landing it by itself, but there are much better things you could be doing with a 2C starter in the corner and 236B is unlikely to land by itself. Edited February 3, 2012 by Sahgren Grammar and spelling
OrionXElite Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Only way to combo off of 236B meterless is on CH as far as I know. CH 236B>5D>[w]j.A>Land D>[h]2C should work. Might not even need that depending on how hard they get knocked into the air from it.
DJ_Blactricity Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 To my knowledge, there isn't. You could do 236B~236B in the corner by comboing into from 2C or just landing it by itself, but there are much better things you could be doing with a 2C starter in the corner and 236B is unlikely to land by itself. Actually after a little testing 2C into 236B~236B is one of the better options on normal hit if you don't have meter to RC. You sacrifice 200-300 damage for more meter. Only way to combo off of 236B meterless is on CH as far as I know. CH 236B>5D>[w]j.A>Land D>[h]2C should work. Might not even need that depending on how hard they get knocked into the air from it. 236B CH requires you to do CH 236B>5D/3D>[w5C-j.A] >5D>2C etc for 6.2k. That link is difficult on pad so I just follow-up with 236B and do 236B~236B>5D>5D>2C etc for 5K
Kurushii Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Update to that old palette images: http://kurushii.tv/Dustloop/BBCSEX_Character_Colors/BBCSEX_Valkenhayn_Colors.png
goldenxservbot Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Update to that old palette images: http://kurushii.tv/Dustloop/BBCSEX_Character_Colors/BBCSEX_Valkenhayn_Colors.png Damn forgot how some of the Wulf palettes were ruined by the Human ones
DJ_Blactricity Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Does anyone know the benefits of using 5B>2C>w[hj.B>j.B] as an ender? It looks like a wolf variant of the falling j.C ender. The valk in the following vid uses it a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dt3lmvtMhY&list=UUwKPd_Yckb2AJsuO8zT_PMg&index=7&feature=plcp Has anyone considered using 5D as a defensive option? It is head and throw invulnerable for the first 6 frames so it may be possible to avoid safe jump setups, jump-ins that are not active for a long time, or certain mixups. It also may allow us to avoid 720 when using Joker's ender on Tager. Will test when I get the chance.
goldenxservbot Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 Does anyone know the benefits of using 5B>2C>w[hj.B>j.B] as an ender? It looks like a wolf variant of the falling j.C ender. The valk in the following vid uses it a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dt3lmvtMhY&list=UUwKPd_Yckb2AJsuO8zT_PMg&index=7&feature=plcp Has anyone considered using 5D as a defensive option? It is head and throw invulnerable for the first 6 frames so it may be possible to avoid safe jump setups, jump-ins that are not active for a long time, or certain mixups. It also may allow us to avoid 720 when using Joker's ender on Tager. Will test when I get the chance. 5D? you sure you got that right
Sahgren Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 Does anyone know the benefits of using 5B>2C>w[hj.B>j.B] as an ender? It looks like a wolf variant of the falling j.C ender. The valk in the following vid uses it a lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dt3lmvtMhY&list=UUwKPd_Yckb2AJsuO8zT_PMg&index=7&feature=plcp It's probably a combination of serving the same purpose as the falling j.C ender and keeping him in wolf form for oki. [w]5A is good for picking them up off the ground if they don't tech the second [w]j.B, so it's difficult for them to try to mess with you with delay techs. He also seemed to avoid adding wolf cannons to the corner combos in order to keep his wolf meter high. Has anyone considered using 5D as a defensive option? It is head and throw invulnerable for the first 6 frames so it may be possible to avoid safe jump setups, jump-ins that are not active for a long time, or certain mixups. It also may allow us to avoid 720 when using Joker's ender on Tager. Will test when I get the chance. Never tried it. 6 frames isn't a heck of a lot of time, so I was never willing to take the risk.
DJ_Blactricity Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Never tried it. 6 frames isn't a heck of a lot of time, so I was never willing to take the risk. Some attacks aren't even active for half the time and against certain attacks the reward is worth it. Ragna's 6D is only active for 3 frames and gauntlet hades though active for 7 frames is easily avoidable with 5D. If you use 5D to avoid 6D you can transform back and get a 2C starter. Against gauntlet hades you can do the same, but it is safer to do w[5B] in this situation in case he does the follow-up on whiff. Edited February 5, 2012 by DJ_Blactricity
Kiba Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 That's what happened when I used 5D, and I think I also avoided Valk's 6C that way. Unfortunately I didn't capatalise of it because it was unintentional as I intended to go for a reversal instead. It was a misinput. Though I may experiment with it even more, but I agree it is risky seeing it's only throw and head invulnerable.
Leo7 Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 Has anyone considered using 5D as a defensive option? It is head and throw invulnerable for the first 6 frames so it may be possible to avoid safe jump setups, jump-ins that are not active for a long time, or certain mixups. It also may allow us to avoid 720 when using Joker's ender on Tager. Will test when I get the chance. Every time I try using 5D as an option to get out of throws, I usually end up mistiming it and getting blown up. As for 720 ... You can try it if they don't hold it down (same with 360B really), but you literally have a 2 frame window to dodge it with 5D (6 frame throw invin, 720 has 5 active frames if unheld). I've used it to dodge 360s a few times, but that's it. Against Tager now, I pretty much just end every combo with jB > mondlicht or wolf j.A > purple command grab when he has 50%. Too risky otherwise. Can't even do rising jC falling jC against him cause if they tech the first jC and immediately do a 720 and hold it and I'm doing the second jC, I die. That's why I'm wondering why Joker always ends every combo with Sturm > 6B whiff against Tager. I'm just going to guess it's because it leaves him at the perfect distance to do safe oki against Tager.
DJ_Blactricity Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 Every time I try using 5D as an option to get out of throws, I usually end up mistiming it and getting blown up. As for 720 ... You can try it if they don't hold it down (same with 360B really), but you literally have a 2 frame window to dodge it with 5D (6 frame throw invin, 720 has 5 active frames if unheld). I've used it to dodge 360s a few times, but that's it. Against Tager now, I pretty much just end every combo with jB > mondlicht or wolf j.A > purple command grab when he has 50%. Too risky otherwise. Can't even do rising jC falling jC against him cause if they tech the first jC and immediately do a 720 and hold it and I'm doing the second jC, I die. That's why I'm wondering why Joker always ends every combo with Sturm > 6B whiff against Tager. I'm just going to guess it's because it leaves him at the perfect distance to do safe oki against Tager. I am more focused on using 5D for its head invulnerability. So far from what I tested you can use it to avoid valk and jin's safe jump setups and ragna's 6D and gauntlet hades.
Kiba Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 Against Tager now, I pretty much just end every combo with jB > mondlicht or wolf j.A > purple command grab when he has 50%. Too risky otherwise. Can't even do rising jC falling jC against him cause if they tech the first jC and immediately do a 720 and hold it and I'm doing the second jC, I die. Honestly I was not aware about this. I'm just glad the Tagers I play don't usually tech the first j.C hit. Guess I'll end my combos with j.214B then. Genowhirl thanks for a visual insight. Unless the player likes spamming throws, using 5D to evade throws seems less practical. On the other hand, knowing about 5D avoiding gauntlet Hades is good stuff. Thank you too DJ.
DJ_Blactricity Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 After some more testing 5D can be used to avoid Litchi's 4D and all version's of chun, Tao's 6B, Bang's 6B, Jin's 6B, and Hazama's 214D~A. It can be used to avoid most jump-ins but the timing varies depending on your opponents timing.
GenoWhirl Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 Hazama's 214D~A. I got this tourney in the bag
Kiba Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 After some more testing 5D can be used to avoid Litchi's 4D and all version's of chun, Tao's 6B, Bang's 6B, Jin's 6B, and Hazama's 214D~A. It can be used to avoid most jump-ins but the timing varies depending on your opponents timing. I added that to the wiki if you don't mind because I figured it's still something to be aware of. Thanks dude. Ima see if I can add the video Geno used to give a visual demonstration.
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