[CS1] Makoto vs. Valkenhayn

[HiagoX]

I'll make this in case people who actually played him get a chance to discuss something, even if only a few people are able to play him at all.

Just don't fuck this up.

[seyu]

i played some valks in ranked. nothing great, but got some first impressions.

first of: my move to win all ranked matches, 3C wont work cus his poke(5B) also hits low, so ull get CHed and eat a combo if you throw out 3C recklessly. it goes under his 6C though(the dropkick)

his 2C is a good anti-air, but to slow for doing on reaction. jumping in with j2C is okay, but if predicted with 2Cyou eat a Ch. could be my positioning though so no 100% on this.

makotos better in the air i believe. at least shes faster. id like to know how her j.B is against his downward kick(j.C was it?) though.

wolf form doesnt seem dangerous outside of combos, since you can just jab him out of it.

overall his normals are slower then yours. his pokes are good to keep you at a distance, but even i could parry them or at least one of them.

other then his human form, wolf form is fast, but very fragile. i dont see a reason not to jab or DP him out of it if he can even apply pressure(wolf form has command throw, low and overhead).

also look out for his valkfunka DD that continues even if he misses the forst hit.

[Blade]

Just sayin'...3C beats Sturm Wolf (A thousand Wolves' Howl) for hilarious results.

[StarryShade]

I have insane troubles dealing with his 5C pokes, they CH almost everything I can do, Comet Cannon isn't helping much and the only I can seem to get in is to use Asteroid Vision A with a B cancel...but that gets predictable.

Brokenhayn so broken ;~;

[seyu]

ya hes really a bitch to get in on. dashing 2A works fine most of the time if its not to predictable. u can try to bait his 5C by staying out of 5B range and then 3C it. works surprisingly well, but its not something to apply in general situations.

valks doesnt have a reversal, so you can pressure im pretty well as long as you dont get predictable. if he jumos out of asteroid vision A into anything get him with an air throw.

i think hes got the advantage, but theres so much stuff the valks rely on and you can take advantage of that.

also a last point: remember to 2A him out of his wolf form. he can hardly get in if you condition him not to use it:3

[OmniSScythe]

I honesty haven't played against a Valk (though I did mash buttons with him :3) but try testing how well 6C works against him, it works wonders against Tager and Haku.

[HiagoX]

Valkhenhayn is not a difficult matchup, really.

If he goes wolf form at you, just 5/2A out of it. His human form blockstrings aren't really amazing, so it should be pretty easy to block. His 6C is really slow, parry or 5A whenever you see it coming. Asteroid Vision B/C with Barrier Cancel should be enough for you to get in, you can also use 3C as long as you don't get predictable. I don't quite remember, but j.B may be able to beat his j.C, I don't know.

If he uses his multihit DD on you, be aware that you can just mash 4 while blocking it to IB everything, getting a LOT of meter.

BBS also works as a punisher for Wolf Form.

[StarryShade]

I will try and use 6C more, thanks Omni. Though 6C seems to be just a way to push people into the corner, I haven't seen any combos off it. Because 6C 214A~C seems to blackbeat X|

EDIT: I actually have knocked Valk out of Sturm Wolf on block with BBS before. And I can't parry on reaction...atleast not with pad. Maybe once I get my stick X|. I still think his human form blockstrings are insane because his 2A catches me even if I IB>2A his Naght Jager

Edited November 15, 2010 by StarryShade

[HiagoX]

I haven't seen any combos off it. Because 6C 214A~C seems to blackbeat X|

6C > 214A~C~A doesn't blue beat.

[StarryShade]

214A~C~A??? Don't you mean D? I'm confused

[HiagoX]

214A~C~A??? Don't you mean D? I'm confused

I mean that if you do 6C > 214A~C~A, it works fine.

[Ronove]

Playing both, I'd say this matchup depends mostly on the Valk player.

In terms of movement Valk > Makoto and given Makoto's hard time at getting in it's better to play this matchup passive until you force Valk to pick a risky option, once you get in always end for oki and consequently stay on his arse the whole time, he has no solid reversals untile he gets his 50% (though I have yet to see a Valk player using a CA, most of the times it's spent for RC/or combo ender with his KoF super), and your 2A > his 2A. Cornered Valk = hopeless Valk

Valk's blockstrings can be easily IB'ed however keep in mind that 5B from almost max range can be staggered and they will do it knowing Makoto has no way to punish these pokes from that distance (unless you IB>parry), specially since Valk's blockstrings tend to push him away real quick. His 6C will dodge your lows so even if it's slow they can still catch you off guard. If they're using it at the end of a blockstring you can IB the previous hit > parry overhead and make them afraid of using it. Don't just block the overhead though, it's freaking +6 on block, and be aware that he can kara-wolf cancel the move as well: if your parry "whiffs" because of that and he's getting in with the wolf fakeout get ready to block or DP (depending on the timing/distance).

If Valk resets his pressure with a fakeout (4D/7D) get ready to block a [w]j.B and be ready for mixup as he lands (it's either [w]5A>[w]5B > crossup [w]j.B, or the command grab). Wolf mode pressure can be slight of a pain in the butt you'll have to patiently block (not easy to IB wolf 5A) and wait until he resets, then parry as he gets back in. He could also try to get away with his wolf 236A/B (kinda like Bison does with the psycho crusher), parry that shit. But if he uses 7D he'll end up falling diagonally there's enough time to use 6A/DP. Just be aware that after his shoulder special he will wolf cancel away (if you IB'd, that is. If you just blocked he might keep pressuring with [h]2A but you can IB all the stuff that comes after).

If Valk hitconfirms a poke from max/medium range he'll go for the shoulder special unless he's within range for 3C > walk 2B. If he ends the combo with 236A (and he still doesn't have 50% meter) he can still bait your reversal DP (however most Valk's will be eager to keep pressuring or wolf cancel).

Also, watch the hell out for his 2C. Bait it, use j.2C/double jump whatever just make that move whiff because even if it trades it's in his favor.

As for air vs air, his j.C is good but Makoto's j.B has a good vertical hitbox (and it's faster) if you see Valk approaching from fullscreen with his wolf cancel'd dash don't be afraid to jump and j.B. His human form j.B is a pretty good antiair but doesn't seem to have a huge vertical hitbox (but it hits behind as well, so be careful for that), meaning that if you're above him you're almost safe since his only option it's his j.214B. If you happen to block his j.B in the air be ready for j.214B (if they attempt that it's a free air IB for you).

Overall this is a matchup that requires a little patience, though you can't let the Valk player take the initiative it's not easy to get in, so basically it all boils down to patiently wait/create the opportunity to turn the momentum and RTSD. Though remember the more the game drags, the more it turns in Valk's favour, he can gain meter as fast as Makoto and move/fool around as he likes. It may also occur a situation where Valk is just sitting around and just pokin and playing footsies until he has 50% meter for easy hitconfirm > RC combos. When things become like that just be careful and IB/parry as much as possible. Once you get a knockdown it's your turn to make him feel sorry for not having chosen to be aggressive right from the start.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Ronove