Raziul Posted November 29, 2014 Posted November 29, 2014 Why maining Hakumen then? Since CP he has that stuff and in CP2 he really needs it imo. Good luck getting a fully charged 6C counterhit in the corner with low health and 8 stars. Otherwise you're going to have to work pretty hard to break 7k with an OD combo. Your opponent would have to be asleep for you to really have a chance to do anything like that. 6k seems to be the average high mark for most of the cast when it comes to common OD combos, and that's generally fine, you're spending a lot of resources. I'd much rather have meter to spend in neutral through out a match, but instead, it looks like they neutered CP2 Hakumen's meter gain, and his only real skill now is to cheese his way through matches with ridiculously high OD damage off just about anything.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted November 29, 2014 Posted November 29, 2014 He's been doing that since CP1.0 tho, not that I disagree but it's always been a thing. I don't know why Arc are so determined to turn him into a one trick damage pony, I mean who on the development team thought "Hey, instead of giving more purpose to all of his specials and improve his game, let's just focus on giving him moar damage." Shit, even special cancel counters look useless considering nobody has even tried to use them since the update's dropped. I dunno, it feels like aside from having a few new combo routes, he hasn't really changed all that much 1.0.
Raziul Posted November 29, 2014 Posted November 29, 2014 Yeah, his OD damage is slightly higher than most of the cast, but if you don't do it off a good starter or activate with low stars, it ends up getting gimped really hard. Plus even though the potential for absurdity has always been there, the requirements for it made it feel like you'd have to win the lotto to get it off. It was just so rare that you didn't have to worry about it. I like that they gave CP2 Haku some good moves like a faster 6A and 4C among others, but other things like barely any new combo routes (you can pretty much do all of CP2 Haku's BnB's in 1.1 right now) and making agito oki cost prohibitive in many cases, just don't seem to be doing the character any favors.
entnervt Posted November 30, 2014 Posted November 30, 2014 @ Raziul: You said: I just hate any idea of the possibility of 0-100% combos. There's no place in a competitive environment for that sort of nonsense. My answer was: Why maining Hakumen then? Since CP he has that stuff and in CP2 he really needs it imo. You said: Good luck getting a fully charged 6C counterhit in the corner with low health and 8 stars. Otherwise you're going to have to work pretty hard to break 7k with an OD combo. Your opponent would have to be asleep for you to really have a chance to do anything like that. I can't follow you. First you say, that you don't like killcombos. Than you grouse about them beeing to hard to really perform them in a match? And since when do you need a full charged 6C to deal a hard hitting combo with Hakumen?
Raziul Posted November 30, 2014 Posted November 30, 2014 I can't follow you. First you say, that you don't like killcombos. Than you grouse about them beeing to hard to really perform them in a match? And since when do you need a full charged 6C to deal a hard hitting combo with Hakumen? I assume you're talking about 0-100 kill combos, in which case, yes. That crap is dumb. My point was, yes, the POTENTIAL is there to do upwards of 12k damage combos with Hakumen, but when was the last time you've gotten that off in a regular match? Honestly, the answer should be never. The requirements of that outcome are too unlikely. Because the probability is so low, you can pretty much rule it out, even if it's a possibility. A 6k damage OD combo to win the round isn't a big deal. The entire cast can do that in their own ways. Hell, Kagura has a near meterless combo that does that much. But it seems dumb to break down a character into a weaker version of itself and just try to make up for it with stupidly high damage combos. I'd pretty much want to rage quit if I spent an entire round wearing down an opponent to within inches of winning, and then wam bam they get lucky and shit out a 10k damage combo to steal the match. It's hardly fair to the person on the receiving end of nonsense like that. I don't agree with that direction that CP2 Hakumen seems to be taking. Even combos with B starters that would usually get you like 5k in 1.1 are doing 7k+ in CP2 because of the changes in proration to several moves. The only limiting factor in CP2 seems to really be star count.
Schneider-X Posted November 30, 2014 Posted November 30, 2014 If you don't like the direction Hakumen is going then switch characters or stop playing the game until the next revision. All big damage for Hakumen in BBCP 1.1 comes from the opponent making a mistake either by mashing or having a DP baited, Hakumen isn't capable of doing absurd damage in normal circumstances.
Raziul Posted November 30, 2014 Posted November 30, 2014 Excellent contribution. Not sure how I ever could have reached that conclusion with out your insight.
IndigoNovember Posted November 30, 2014 Posted November 30, 2014 Excellent contribution. Not sure how I ever could have reached that conclusion with out your insight. Now that you have reached that conclusion, maybe you could stop beating a dead horse? I'm pretty sure most Hakumen players don't like the direction that Arc Systems Works is taking him. We've already discussed how discontent we've been with the changes since the release of Chrono Phantasma, so there's really not much point to keep on discussing it. Look at it this way, all you're losing by sticking to Hakumen is your enjoyment of the game at this point. If it's not fun, why play it?
Raziul Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 All I ever said was that I disagree with the fact that they're gimping my favorite character and trying to make up for it with OD combos that do too much damage, and that they could have made smarter decisions involving the changes. The bigger issue was the high damage, which would bother me regardless of character. If someone is going to question me on that opinion, I will explain why I felt the way I did.
mAc Chaos Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 The die has been cast; this is the direction they've taken him since CP1. I've pretty much accepted it, and am just trying to fit my own style into it where I can. However, you are forgetting that he always had huge damage, even kill combos back in CT. They were just always incredibly unlikely with tight constraints, and needing like 10% life, full meter and OD seems pretty tight to me. The difference here is that his non-burst damage is low.
D.R.F. Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 Not a haku player... but when he has not had godlike damage
Wander Posted December 1, 2014 Posted December 1, 2014 Does anyone miss the old hotaru? Hakumen deserves to get it back, especially since he shouldn't be able to abuse it now that meter gain is nerfed.
mAc Chaos Posted December 2, 2014 Posted December 2, 2014 Not a haku player... but when he has not had godlike damageWell, the real issue is that his non-OD damage is lower in CP, and especially CP2. Nobody should have a problem with him getting a ridiculous burst of damage in certain constrained situations, but that still leaves the other 99% of the matches.Still, you still have his normal tools and he looks like he's running with the pack tier wise, so it's manageable.Does anyone miss the old hotaru? Hakumen deserves to get it back, especially since he shouldn't be able to abuse it now that meter gain is nerfed.Yes, although I've been using the new one plenty still. People don't seem to expect it as much anymore.
Kriegdrache Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Tsubakiloop in CS1 is still the sickest touch of death combo, I'll slapbox anyone who disagrees. But yeah, I'm not a fan of what they're doing to Hakumen, but you just have to deal with it at this point I'm afraid. Or play another character. Or game~
Koopa_Klawz Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Well there's BBCSEX Hakumen coming to Steam.
Kriegdrache Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Cant wait for mods to make him extend Hakumen with CS1 JD
entnervt Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 No, 2B>Gurren>etc. is the weapon of choice now (again).
Raziul Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 That's what I thought, there's only a 1 frame difference between 5C and 2C in start up. Oh well, I guess I'll have to use while I still can.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 What CS1 J.D like? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
entnervt Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Yeah Raziul, I love 3C counterhit. I'll miss it for sure.
mAc Chaos Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 What CS1 J.D like? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You could combo it into 5C > enma for 4.5k.
mAc Chaos Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 it was great it was all great also tsubaki grounded them right next to you for a 5C combo, and hotaru launched them like enma for a falling j.2C combo
Schneider-X Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Best part about CS1 j.D was chicken blocking j.D and then doing 4K, it was pretty swell.
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